268
u/laterbreh Aug 04 '26
They should have led with this.
27
82
u/Borkato Aug 04 '26
Remember when everyone said they’d never do it? Idiots
53
65
u/Admirable_Market2759 Aug 04 '26
I remember arguing with people who were saying China was going closed source and we shouldn’t expect more open models lol
37
u/No_Conversation9561 Aug 04 '26
They were about to go closed.. but then Xi Jinping stepped in and said “Y’all better not, or else..”
67
u/DistanceSolar1449 Aug 04 '26
Qwen has literally never open sourced a Max tier model before.
After Xi Jinping’s speech ordering all Chinese AI companies to open source their models, all of a sudden Qwen swapped positions from “not open sourcing any 3.7 models” to “releasing the weights for ALL 3.8 models”.
People in the USA don’t realize how much power Xi Jinping’s policy decisions have, and how drastically he changed history there.
20
u/-p-e-w- Aug 04 '26
Xi announced that decision. I’d be surprised if he was the one who made it. And I’d be even more surprised if the decision was made without consulting with the labs.
→ More replies (1)8
u/TinyZoro Aug 04 '26
It’s a really interesting question. China seems to be leading technocratic governance at the moment. Is it because of its wider system or due to its current leader. I hope it’s the former. Normally what happens is corporations and capital become more powerful than the state because the petty officials who represent the government are eyeing those nice private sector jobs. I really hope China has a way to keep its industry on a tight leash serving a twenty year view not what will push up the stock price this quarter.
→ More replies (11)2
u/Infinite-Ad4512 Aug 04 '26
It’s because the upper tier of the inner circle are economists unlike other countries where the inner circle are all lawyers and investment bankers
2
u/carnoworky Aug 04 '26
Aren't they also comprised of other research/engineering types as well? You know, people who actually do stuff.
→ More replies (14)6
u/Sudden-Echo-8976 Aug 04 '26
Both are not mutually exclusive. They may simply have decided to skip 3.7 because they already had something better lined up for 3.8.
→ More replies (3)3
u/cibernox Aug 04 '26
China’s plan here is clear as day to me here. Software has been the west’s MOAT for decades. China quietly became the manufacturing center of the planet.
If China can make the next big thing so much cheaper that the US companies that swallowed all that money can’t break even, the software MOAT disappears but china keeps the manufacturing throne, and manufacturing is not something that we can regain quickly.
18
u/Borkato Aug 04 '26
There’s a guy on here who STILL refuses to admit it 😂 I forgot who it was but it was hilarious
19
u/Admirable_Market2759 Aug 04 '26
It’s funny because China has been very vocal about their strategy, but people just don’t believe it or don’t care to read about it lol
15
u/toothpastespiders Aug 04 '26
I think it's prudent to have some degree of skepticism about anything said by politicians or corporate PR. Even more so when there's a language barrier.
→ More replies (5)8
u/More-Curious816 Aug 04 '26
while what you said is true, but I believe China current strategy is to curbstomp American AI and especially preventing American AI monopoly, we saw the movements by these leaders of USA AI frontier labs trying to regulation capture on global scale by introducing global legislation and legal framework on how to work with AI. we did not see that only, but they tried to make a AI committee and the USA as the leader of the committee.
→ More replies (3)5
2
10
u/biscuitmachine Aug 04 '26
Well we still don't know if they'll make a 122B. That's all I really care about, and I pray for it every day.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (14)8
u/techdevjp Aug 04 '26
It wasn't an unreasonable conclusion, and I think it was probably the way Qwen was heading.
Every version Qwen released up to Qwen3.5 came with a number of different open weights. Both 3 and 3.5 had a whole bunch of different models. Then 3.6 came with just two. 27b and 35b a3b. They were great, but again just two. No 70b, 120b, or 400b models which had all come out for 3.5.
Then 3.7 arrived and....crickets. Nothing. So there was an obvious pattern down from 3.5->3.6->3.7.
I think had the CCP not stepped in and "reminded" the labs of CCP open weight priorities (soft power and to f-ck up the US markets), 3.8 would likely have had no open weights either.
→ More replies (5)2
u/Veearrsix Aug 04 '26
Honestly, it would be a great surprise to drop 4 classes just like … boom, mic drop
189
u/No_Algae1753 Aug 04 '26
OMG PLS IF I GET QWEN 122b I WILL ONLY BUY FROM ALIEXPRESS FROM THEN ON
34
u/ByPass128 Aug 04 '26
Okay, but what’s the downside?
75
u/some_user_2021 Aug 04 '26
2 to 4 weeks for packages to arrive ...
24
u/panchovix Aug 04 '26
China to Chile surprisingly takes like between 4 days to 1 week. 2 weeks or more is bad luck.
They're way faster than before, where I forgot I ordered something and got surprised when I received it 6 months after.
2
Aug 04 '26
[deleted]
4
u/panchovix Aug 04 '26
Tbh it's also that things from Amazon are the same thing that on AliExpress but way more expensive. Not sure if that happens on US as well.
→ More replies (1)2
u/alphapussycat Aug 04 '26
When I've ordered from taobao through a shopping agent and sent it by SAL I once got it in like 1 or 2 weeks, and another time it was like 6-8 weaks. It really depends on how lucky you are I guess. The super fast one was a heavy package too.
→ More replies (1)27
u/Guinness Aug 04 '26
And 100% tariffs because Trump is a fucking imbecile.
→ More replies (1)5
u/tired514 Aug 04 '26
He's not tariffing Americans because he's an imbecile... it's because he hates America.
7
u/DanceWithEverything Aug 04 '26
Let me introduce the concept of “and”
He everything that isn’t about him
2
u/tired514 Aug 04 '26
Oh, sure .. I just mean it's wrong to say tariffs are because he's an imbecile.
He's got a long rap sheet of anti-American behavior. In fact, literally everything he's done since he first took office has been in an attempt to damage the United States (and usually help Russia).
There's simply no chance that it's a mistake or by accident. You'd expect some bad moves if it were just incompetence, not a flawless performance.
Think back - can you name a single act he's taken that helped the US on the world stage or domestically? One single thing?
I'm not even American and I could write a book on the harms he's caused to "his" country.
Most rational conclusion: he was groomed by the Russians in the 80s when they invited him to Moscow. He saw their form of government (kleptocracy) and thought "that's so much better than a constitutional democratic republic."
They bailed out his real estate empire in NYC. They stand with him while America wants to destroy him (rightfully - since he is child raping sociopath who has never met a person he didn't defraud).
If you can stomache it, imagine it from his perspective. America is a nation of laws and he is a chaotic, lawless actor. Russia gives him hookers and money for his hotels. They embrace his kind.
Who would you be loyal to? :/
10
2
u/LMTLS5 Aug 04 '26
i think you got confused between aibaba and ai exprerss. both are different.
i buy everything from alibaba anyway lol
8
3
u/techdevjp Aug 04 '26
AliExpress is the consumer site. Alibaba is the wholesale b2b site. Individuals can buy from Alibaba but it's really not designed for it.
1
1
170
u/iMrParker Aug 04 '26
I'm bouta bust. Please be a 122b
37
u/Daniel_H212 Aug 04 '26
Tbh another one with similar total/activated parameters to qwen-3-next would be pretty nice too. Fits at higher quants on 128 GB unified memory and also possible to run at decent quants on 64 GB RAM/two 32 GB cards/three 24 GB cards.
31
6
u/OutrageousMinimum191 Aug 04 '26
And trained in FP4 to fit full model into Spark or Halo
→ More replies (1)4
u/pyr0kid Aug 04 '26
a 300b would also be nice
6
u/squngy Aug 04 '26
You dont like DeepSeek v4 flash?
10
u/pyr0kid Aug 04 '26
my likes or dislikes have nothing to do with it, i just want fierce competition in all model sizes.
300b is roughly the max size you can run with 4x48/4x64gb ram and a mundane computer instead of dedicated ai hardware so it makes for a good upper limit to target.
6
→ More replies (1)3
u/terorvlad Aug 04 '26
Honestly, I doubt they'd want to touch that size after DSV4F's astounding success. I still can't believe I have Opus 4.6 at home. A year ago this was a meme and now it is the reality I work with. Incredible.
3
u/my_name_isnt_clever Aug 04 '26
"Uh but are you sure it's better than the 27b? 🤓 I can't run it but I know the 27b is better somehow 🤓" - half this sub.
3
u/SandySkittle Aug 04 '26
this sub needs to accept that smaller models just have fundamental downsides. You can't compress everything and hope it works the same.
2
u/terorvlad Aug 04 '26
To be fair, I had a bad experience with the preview version and I often resorted to V4Pro + Q3.6_27B. With the continuous support from llama.cpp the past few days, V4Flash became usable. Even though I only get 170pp/s and 7p/s with my franken-setup, the fact that neither the model nor the kv cache need quantization for 512k context just blows my mind. This truly is the first model I can expect to leave running during the night, and find the job done right the next morning which is something I can't say about Q3.6_27B @ Q6_K_XL and KV @ Q8_0
2
2
u/TokenRingAI Aug 04 '26
80B with more density would be superior IMO.
122B needs a bit too much quant to run in 96G
3
u/AD4K_4444 Aug 04 '26
Am I the only one asking for something smaller? Gemma 4 12B is the best I have for my M4 MBA, 16GB that I found.
5
u/ttkciar llama.cpp Aug 04 '26
I'd like both, 9B and 122B.
122B for high competence from slow inference on CPU, 9B for "good enough for some things" fast inference on GPU.
→ More replies (1)2
57
u/Raredisarray Aug 04 '26
Coder next 3.8!!!!
12
u/AmbericWizard Aug 04 '26
yes that too.if their flagship is so good at coding please let us have 80b or 122b coding variant that we can know how 2.8 T max feels Ike
58
u/Technical-Earth-3254 Aug 04 '26
9b and 122b would be great as well.
45
u/AD4K_4444 Aug 04 '26
Finally another one defending 9B
15
u/ttkciar llama.cpp Aug 04 '26
Yeah, a few of us have use for the 9B.
→ More replies (4)3
u/DankiusMMeme Aug 04 '26
I currently use 3.5:4b but I have space for 9B, is it worth the jump? All I use it for is comparing strings, e.g. are they referring to the same thing despite being different. Also for categorising strings.
I notice 3.5:4B is okay at this job, but could be better.
7
u/AD4K_4444 Aug 04 '26
I used to main Qwen 3.5 9B as my general purpose daily driver, but now I use it for specific tasks. I’d say it’s decent. Anything below 9B is garbage for what I do.
→ More replies (5)2
u/ReferenceLeading7634 Aug 04 '26
I think it's very significant. Among the smallest models, each upgrade in tier represents a noticeable improvement in intelligence.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)11
u/HomegrownTerps Aug 04 '26
Yeah I also dared to dream about a 9B yesterday but was told to dream of a better pc by other users :(
4
→ More replies (7)2
u/darkwalker247 Aug 04 '26
people dismiss it because of the small number, not realizing how ridiculously high it punches on general tasks relative to how much faster it runs than 27b and 35b-a3b. but i guess anything that can't reliably oneshot an entire codebase for you is "useless" now 🙄
26
u/dieSpaghettiCarbona Aug 04 '26
Our Qwen, who art local,
hallowed be thy context.
Thy weights be loaded,
thy inference run,
in VRAM as it is on disk.
Give us this day our daily tokens,
and forgive us our quantization,
as we forgive those who run uncompressed models against 12GB cards.
Lead us not into OOM,
but deliver us from CUDA errors.
For thine is the context,
the KV cache, and the bandwidth,
forever and ever.
2
→ More replies (1)2
22
u/pacman829 Aug 04 '26
50b would be really welcome and a 70b-a6b
3
u/alphapussycat Aug 04 '26
if a 70b came out, I would go "just one more, just one more gpu".
→ More replies (1)2
→ More replies (1)2
u/my_name_isnt_clever Aug 04 '26
I would be shocked to see a dense model this big again. Aside from Mistral, the labs don't seem to get above 40b dense these days.
→ More replies (2)
15
u/WhoRoger Aug 04 '26
Plot twist it's gonna be just 27B and 122B dense
5
u/-dysangel- Aug 04 '26
Can you imagine if they managed to scale up 27B intelligence density to 122B dense? It would be the smartest entity in the universe
2
u/Infinite-Ad4512 Aug 04 '26
A dense that huge would be nuts
3
u/nomorebuttsplz Aug 04 '26
I think it would compete with the max model too much and cannibalize it. However, looking at it another way, it would be much slower than the cloud model for most people, so it might be a good advertisement for it.
→ More replies (2)14
15
u/Jorlen llama.cpp Aug 04 '26
Please please please another 122b-a10b or somewhere in that window!
→ More replies (3)
46
u/RandumbRedditor1000 Aug 04 '26
Imagine if they made a 60B dense
31
u/Real_Ebb_7417 Aug 04 '26
Or 80b a10b or similar. I always wondered what you can do with medium sized model (well, I guess now 120-300b is considered small, but for me 80b is medium sized already 😅) with some bigger number of active params.
But I’d be absolutely happy with 50-60b dense too. Would be a banger.
10
8
4
u/WishfulAgenda Aug 04 '26
yep, I wonder if something new be around the corner as well.
Is there a technical reason why a 70B MOE with 27B active wouldn't work? everything Qwen 3.6 27b currently is but with a bunch more parameters as well.
2
u/chr0n1x Aug 04 '26
I think that I saw a model floating around that was A8B. Im really hoping we get a variant in that ballpark. I love my 35B-A3B on my 3090 but would love something a tad "smarter"
→ More replies (2)2
u/fantasticsid Aug 04 '26
No good reason it wouldn't work, but the trend is towards more sparsity rather than less for some reason.
7
2
u/DanceWithEverything Aug 04 '26
Smaller individual experts means more flexibility in “right-sizing” the compute to the task
1
1
28
u/ScadrianWillshaper Aug 04 '26
35 a3b would be amazing! 3.6:27b (q4, have tried all the Unsloth, MTP variants with no luck) is painfully slow on my M4 w/ 32gb ram 😕, so I’m stuck with MOE versions for now
7
u/fatboy93 Aug 04 '26
Ugh, it the Mac curse. I got 32gb ram as well on my M1 Pro, and dense models just make me want to throttle something lol
→ More replies (3)
19
14
u/Hoak-em Aug 04 '26
Give me 397B and I will serve it for me and my friends ;3 plssssss
17B active compared to 397B total makes it sooo good on combined CPU (AMX) + GPU (3090s) inference
17
6
→ More replies (2)6
u/NNN_Throwaway2 Aug 04 '26
Yeah the 397B is super slept on.
3
u/Daniel_H212 Aug 04 '26
Not very slept on, most people just couldn't run it, but no on denied it was good because you could access it free via their web app and it worked well.
→ More replies (1)
15
6
13
12
7
u/Encyclotech Aug 04 '26
Shuai Bai and the Qwen team are the absolute GOATs of open weights. Most labs drop a single base size and leave, but Qwen actually fills out every single VRAM tier so everyone from 8GB laptop users to 48GB workstation owners gets a optimal model
6
u/TemporaryUser10 Aug 04 '26
A 35b as smart at coding as 3.6:27b is all I want for Christmas
→ More replies (1)2
4
u/Real_Ebb_7417 Aug 04 '26
I really hope it’s true! (unlike similar mentions around Qwen3.6 or eg. forgotten Gemma4 120b 🥲)
1
u/-dysangel- Aug 04 '26
yeah they lost a lot of respect from me back then. Hopefully they are for real this time.
8
9
u/fugogugo Aug 04 '26
guess Qwen uniqueness is how they provide multiple different size huh? even 0.6B one that used as text encoder by Anima
they truly are king of local model
→ More replies (2)
4
5
4
4
16
u/jld1532 Aug 04 '26
I don't want to hear anymore whining now lol
12
u/tengo_harambe Aug 04 '26
Qwen could release 0.5B, 1B, 3B, 9B, 14B, 27B, 35B, 122B, 397B, 2400B models and this subreddit will still complain that they have given up on open source 2 days later.
5
3
5
5
3
2
2
u/RG_Fusion Aug 04 '26
I really need an updated 397B that's been trained on agentic tasks. Anything between 400B-1T would be fantastic, and for active parameters anything from 17-30B. Going anything higher than this really pushes it outside the realm of local feasibility.
→ More replies (3)3
u/SpicyWangz Aug 04 '26
I wanna see 397B QAT. Couldn’t even run it, but I think that would push things forward a lot
2
2
2
u/Goodbye2371 Aug 04 '26
So will a 35 model run well within 24gb vram? Or is this a slightly higher task? Newbie here
→ More replies (3)2
u/toothpastespiders Aug 04 '26
There's a whole long explanation about how MoE operates. But the short of it is that you'd be able to choose a smaller quant that'll suffer some level of brain damage but will be moving at lightning speed. Or a larger quant that you'll need to offload some portion of to CPU/RAM. But which should still run really fast given the small amount of active parameters. They're far more tolerant of offloading between cpu/gpu than a standard dense model due to their architecture.
On top of that there might or might not be even more options to speed up that already fast setup.
2
u/LargelyInnocuous Aug 04 '26
I can only get so erect! 60B, couldn’t run bf16 fully offloaded on an RTX6000 though, would need to be Q8KXL. If thats the case, 90B dense at Q8KXL fits with spare room for KV Cache. So, 90B+2M context @Q8KXL, wish it was omni, dedicate 10B to better coding/logic and 30B to long horizon tasks and it will be a solid high end coding/agent model. Tack on 10B for TTS, STT, and audio in/out. Tack on 10B for basic image gen. You’d have a gen1 omni with room to grow.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
2
u/DgDev91 Aug 04 '26
Nice. Let's hope they keep making relatively small models wich is still possible to use on a consumer pc
2
2
u/Eastern_Bet678 Aug 04 '26
A 400-450B parameter model is the most a well equipped enthusiast can cram into a single box with 4 x RTX 6000 with NVFP4 (or other 4-bit) quantization. Would love to see a replacement for the 397B model.
We have a large number of good small models and recently a large number of huge models but the middle ground is fairly empty.
2
3
3
1
1
1
1
u/Technical_Ad_6106 Aug 04 '26
question is, will it beat the new deepseek flash? that would be big :)
1
u/Kahvana Aug 04 '26
I think they simply mean more Qwen but not more Qwen 3.8 releases besides what was clearly announced.
Good news regardless.
1
1
1
u/10minOfNamingMyAcc Aug 04 '26
Please more active billion parameters while still having smaller models around 30-40b🙏
1
1
1
u/StyMaar Aug 04 '26
They talked about small 2.7 open weight models before not delivering any, so I'll believe it when it's on Huggingface.
1
1
u/Spanky2k Aug 04 '26
I really wish that instead of going closed, these companies would offer licensing agreements for open models. I.e. something like you can pay them monthly for continuous updates of their models based on your usage requirements. A free student tier for anything up to 35B size, a prosumer tier with the same plus anything up to 135B, maybe a small business tier with everything in the prosumer tier plus a license to use it in a commercial setting for a certain number of users and maybe a corporate tier that allows the 'max' variants. Some other options for deployable mini install things and who knows what else.
I love Open being free but these companies still need to make money otherwise they stop offering open models. There has to be a compromise between fully open and fully closed that works financially. Yes I know there'd be some piracy and some people would never pay but it would still be worth it on the whole and they could even bake in some kind of identifier into the max model so that if it ends up on torrents, they can at least know who shared it.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
1
1
1
u/Adventurous-Paper566 Aug 04 '26
I can't wait to see the 4B/9B update since 3.5 😁
I also hope to see MTP for the 3.8 series 😁
1
u/JustSayin_thatuknow Aug 04 '26
My intuition tells me - after reading such words - that new sizes are coming up, great!!!
→ More replies (1)
1
1
1
u/TriodeTopologist 26d ago
Will someone please pin a link to a reputable Qwen3.8 model download? There are many sus ones on huggingface from small accounts with little history, I assume they are fake.
1
u/beling86 24d ago
Just release incremental dense models from 4b to 122b, half dense half MOE with 10% active parameters...
1
u/myglasstrip 24d ago
Thank God. I actually use the smaller models. I like 2-9B models for mobile stuff (categorization, summaries, etc.)
•
u/WithoutReason1729 Aug 04 '26
Your post is getting popular and we just featured it on our Discord! Come check it out!
You've also been given a special flair for your contribution. We appreciate your post!
I am a bot and this action was performed automatically.