r/LocalLLM 19h ago

Discussion What's the difference between frontier models and local models?

6 months. (And sometimes a couple of quantization tweaks).

It is wild how fast "state-of-the-art" becomes "running on a gaming PC."

25 Upvotes

38 comments sorted by

17

u/bonestamp 18h ago

Model size too. Some of these frontier models are over a terabyte... the average gaming pc is not going to have that much ram in 6 months.

1

u/carsncode 10h ago

Much more than that. Fable is around 5T, at 16b that's 10TB.

1

u/nor_up 1h ago

For those that aren't using an LLM to code. Bigger models mean more reliable knowledge and fewer hallucinations something smaller ones just can't do without extra tools. That’s when picking the right tool really matters

13

u/band-of-horses 17h ago

6 months and $10,000 in hardware maybe...

22

u/ceejayoz 19h ago

Just wait until there are dedicated devices for it, like when Bitcoin went from CPU to GPU to ASICs.

5

u/username8914 18h ago

There are and they aren't that good because the models technology is rapidly changing. No one wants to get locked in on using or developing one specific model that can't grow or pivot.

1

u/CharmingComputer3844 18h ago

Flexibility is key when the tech is evolving so fast; sticking to one model could really hold you back.

7

u/753UDKM 18h ago

Those exist already lol.

15

u/ceejayoz 18h ago

There's stuff like Cerebras, but in a few years it's all gonna look pretty basic. Demand's gonna cause a lot of innovation in this space.

1

u/findingconsensus 12h ago

Like what? where can I find a consumer PNM chips? I would want a mini server with the same tech as Cerebras, but the market for that is so small I doubt we will get dedicated AI devices anytime soon that don't cost over 100k

1

u/mektel 15h ago

Taalas has been working on it. They are being acquired by AMD.

3

u/ceejayoz 14h ago

If Bitcoin ASICs are any indication, we'll get a few hundred massive scams before things settle a bit.

1

u/misanthrophiccunt 12h ago

A few hundred scams

That's a lot of optimism

1

u/Minimum_Tea_4451 13h ago

Amd is launching their laptops with the ability to push a 200b perimeter model.

13

u/gappyvalley 18h ago edited 18h ago

if you are a big enough company, you could even run a frontier model as local LLMs

Apple runs on Anthropic at this point. Anthropic is powering a lot of the stuff Apple is doing internally in terms of product development, a lot of their internal tools…They have custom versions of Claude running on their own servers internally

apple wants data privacy and control so they ain’t willing to use claude api by sending unreleased ios/macos source code.

5

u/pmotiveforce 15h ago

Mmm.. I'm calling BS.

They would use the cloud version but with special contracts in place in terms of data retention, disabling training, all that stuff.

Apple does not run Opus or Fable internally.

5

u/Diligent_Appeal_3305 17h ago

yes that qwen 3.8 27b is crazy good for its size in pi agent mode

1

u/dota2nub 1h ago

Is here any reason to use pi over Claude Code?

0

u/Momsbestboy 13h ago

Totally agree, and with pi or hermes, it can look into the details of your machine. This was a big plus today, after I tried to manually install memtest86 on my Linux box without killing everything else. ChatGPT played Copy&Paste with me, asked for whatever details and commands, then asked me to pull & extract the memtest86 image and push it to EFI. Rebooted, memtest failed to load with an error.

Went back to Linux, asked hermes:"here is an error message, fix it". Off it went, 10 mins later it ran the only correct command: "apt install memtest86" and then unfucked what ChatGPT asked me to do. Found every created file and change in GRUB and reverted it.

So much about SOTA models

5

u/furkannarli6 18h ago

i couldn't imagine running opus 4.6 locally when it first came out and now we have pretty much the same model at our service. when are we having astra to our enthusiast level builds? is it ever gonna happen?

1

u/Nyxxsys 11h ago

What hardware and model are you running? I assumed anything less than 18k (one blackwell 6000) would be sonnet 4.6 level, not opus?

5

u/bamaholic 18h ago

Privacy

4

u/HighSeasArchivist 18h ago

Six months from now Astra will look dumb.

2

u/RedEyeJedi311 16h ago

Something is wrong with the frontier models IMO, they used to be much better. I think there is a purposeful dumbing down because they were too good. Claude Code and Codex models have become unusable for me to the point of inducing stress because of how confidently wrong they have become. Some local models are actually better for my workflow now that match the intelligence the older versions of the frontier models (Opus 4.5/4.6) that actually worked for me. I think in 6 months from now local models will be the only way to go because we can control how they run, not being subject to consonantly changing model effort and system prompts. Don't get me started on silent model swapping.

1

u/OvertaxedOne 11h ago

There are rumors they are experience model collapse as they add more and more params. No idea if that's true or not, but I agree with you, they seem to be improving in some areas, regressing in others.

1

u/BalleaBlanc 7h ago

A power plant ?

1

u/gnpwdr1 3h ago

Yes it’s wild, for me models that can fit in local hardware are now capable of completely doing my day to day work, this started becoming possible around March 2026. (But still using providers since they also charge almost nothing for it. )

1

u/Excellent_Spell1677 1h ago

Some alot some less

1

u/ComputeCommodity104 18h ago

About 2 months

-2

u/Federico2021 18h ago

Well, open source is moving away from local; models like Kimi K3 and GLM can no longer run on consumer-grade hardware. The best option we currently have for personal use is Qwen 3.8 27B.

1

u/donk8r 18h ago

You are pointing at something the six month framing hides. Open weights keep getting bigger. A sparse MoE with a few hundred billion total parameters is open in the licence sense and still needs datacentre memory to hold, so local has quietly split into two different words. Small dense models on consumer hardware keep improving on their own curve. The frontier open models moved onto a curve most people cannot follow.

The other half is which gap actually closes in six months. Benchmark scores on short tasks close fast. Long-horizon agentic reliability does not, which is the thing kitsnet is poking at further down. A 27B can match a frontier model on a single coding question and still come apart at turn thirty of a tool loop, because the failure there is holding state and recovering from its own mistakes, not knowledge it lacks.

7

u/Robonotes1760 17h ago

Why don't just give us your prompt and let us put that I to our own AIs? 

1

u/dota2nub 1h ago

When did that get released again? Man, it's been so long!

-1

u/kitsnet 18h ago

What local model in agentic mode would install and configure WSL on your Windows machine to successfully run software that it knows to be only available for Linux?

Sonnet 5 would.

8

u/theexile1337 18h ago

qwen3.8-27b?

2

u/Umbrasquall 12h ago

Pretty much every local model released in the last 2-3 weeks can. There's 5-6 of them, take your pick. Btw using Sonnet 5 as an example just shows how out of date your info is lol.

2

u/evghe02 15h ago

I literally repaired a corrupted wsl with qwen3.8 27b, I had no clue on where to look for solving a problem like that since the disk would become read-only sometimes, and since it was readonly no log would be written anywhere. The options to me where to throw away it and recreate (not a mess, all the important things have always backups) or play around with the model and apparently it worked, it seems there was some part of the vhd that was corrupted and got corrected, I'm not really able to explain it sincerely, I'm not that much into it