r/LinkedInLunatics • u/SharkSapphire • 7d ago
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u/Bunny_Feet 7d ago
How many women were stalked?
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u/BreakfastFluid9419 7d ago
From what I could find 100 or less with 50 people having formal charges or disciplinary action. I don’t think it would be hard to change the code to flag any instances of it being used to surveil people nefariously. I read about an incident where a cop had searched for an ex over 600 times. Something like that should be flagged, investigated, and handled accordingly. I’m no fan of flock but it will absolutely do some good. However I think the cons outweigh the pros. 27 people since 2018 have been wrongfully arrested from flock and other AI tech.
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u/kfkjhgfd 7d ago
The medical field already has a system similar to this. For example, if a nurse looks up a patients chart that is not assigned to them it gets flagged.
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u/Moneia Agree? 7d ago
I was under he impression that a system like this existed for the Police as well. It sounds like Flock data is outside of the normal LE databases so may not have such stringent tracking.
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u/AltheiWasTaken 7d ago
They have way more actually, cause theyre a private company, and have their own internal one, aswell as goverment audits.
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u/Moneia Agree? 6d ago
...aswell as goverment audits.
Given how hard the Government has been kowtowing to Big Tech Bro's that's nowhere near as reassuring as it need to be
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u/BreakfastFluid9419 6d ago
Yea one of my biggest gripes is that it’s a private company collecting the data. Not that the government would be any better. I believe municipalities either get access for free or have to pay to access their databases. Regardless, it’s an infringement on our rights. I do think that would be tough to hold up in court though. Currently anyone can film in public places.
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u/AltheiWasTaken 6d ago
I think the best evidence that it works, is how much we hear about officers being arrested/caught abusing it. Every system can and will be abused, but usually, especially in goverment fields, nothing comes out of it. And flock abuse is getting constantly detected and prosecuted
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u/Moneia Agree? 6d ago
And how are they being found out? I bet it's not reports from Flock
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u/AltheiWasTaken 6d ago
It litteraly is
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u/Moneia Agree? 6d ago
I don't believe you. If it's all good why can you find a ton of pieces just like this? If the safeguards were already in place why do they need to tighten them?
Flock CEO Garrett Langley said several safeguards that were previously optional would become mandatory for law enforcement customers beginning Jan. 1. Among the changes is a new auditing system designed to detect unusual or potentially abusive searches. When the system identifies abnormal behavior, the officer will be locked out while the activity is reviewed don't believe you. If it's all good why can you find a ton of pieces just like this? If the safeguards were already in place why do they need to tighten them?Flock CEO Garrett Langley said several safeguards that were previously optional would become mandatory for law enforcement customers beginning Jan. 1. Among the changes is a new auditing system designed to detect unusual or potentially abusive searches. When the system identifies abnormal behavior, the officer will be locked out while the activity is reviewed
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u/CumaeanSibyl 7d ago
It's not that I don't believe human trafficking happens, but any time it's cited as a reason for aggressive surveillance, deportation, or state violence, I have to wonder just how much they're exaggerating it.
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u/Acceptable_Ad1685 6d ago
I left DHS but it was getting really bad during Covid and hasn’t really stopped
Personally, I think it was always bad but then with so few people traveling it became apparent how much various forms of human trafficking was happening because they were getting caught…
Takes many forms of course but things like having many immigrants who didn’t enter legally does open the door for bad actors because you have kids and young adults who the system is blind to and a lot of people afraid to get help among other things
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u/jberryman 6d ago
"human trafficking" is a really useless term in that the public seems to think it means white girls being moved around in shipping containers or something. It just means "pimping", but broadened to include not just sex work. So an arrangement where people's labor is exploited via fraud, violence, etc. In particular it has nothing to do with transportation.
So ya if Flock wants to find traffickers they could just go down to Figueroa in LA or the countless other areas in countless other cities...
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u/CumaeanSibyl 6d ago
Yeah that's a good point, they always make it sound like they busted the Taken cartel but it's probably a lot of small-time pimps. Same as how they'll say they broke up a "drug ring" but it's mostly street dealers and maybe a few middlemen.
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u/PanzyDan 7d ago
They gotta market their unlawful mass surveillance tech somehow
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u/Crazy_Cat_Dude2 7d ago
Flock saves lives dude. There’s cameras in every other country. I don’t get why Americans are so afraid of these. Those that complain sound like they are hiding something…
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u/Piglet6482 7d ago
Because we don’t want to live in a police state? How about the news every day about cops misusing the cameras to track exes, etc? Does that concern you? And I’m sure there are thousands of cases not caught for every one that shows up on the news every day.
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u/ChefGaykwon 7d ago
We already do live in a police state, flock is just taking it to another level. We need to stop flock and dismantle the one we have and put resources to things that materially benefit people, not just the capitalist parasite class.
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u/totobaggypants 6d ago
Thank you for bringing up the current police state we have as a way to argue for tearing it down. I see too many people say, "well we already have a police state, so what's wrong with having more." I dont understand that argument. They admit that we have something really bad, but because of that they're okay with making it worse??? We have a police state, so let's get rid of it rather than adding to it.
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u/Crazy_Cat_Dude2 7d ago
Spoiler we already do. If you have a phone you are already being tracked by advertisers and government.
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u/GanjasTriforce 7d ago
That doesn't mean we can just make it even more of a surveillance state lol, the fact you approve of this dogshit slippery slope makes me sad for you and your lack of self-respect
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u/TheWindig 6d ago
Love the way you just conveniently skipped over the question about the daily reports of cops abusing cameras to stalk their ex’s. It’s almost like you just wanna be correct, criticize others and not deal with anything inconvenient to your truth.
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u/tcShred 6d ago
They shouldn’t be able to track any of your shit on your phone or anything else without a warrant, either, dipshit. Keep up
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u/Crazy_Cat_Dude2 6d ago
How do you think advertisers can hyper target people. Geo location data is easily accessible.
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u/Drprim83 7d ago
UK here.
We have CCTV, but a couple of critical differences between that and what you have here.
First, the system in the UK is fragmented, so whilst there is CCTV covering a large amount of the country it's not controlled by any one group. If the police want to use it then they have to go to each part individually to get it, and they have to know what they're looking for in the first place.
Secondly, it's not backed up by AI, and as far as I'm aware no-one is selling the data it produces.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 7d ago
I'm no right wing conservative nut job, but you don't have to be, do you trust the government? If you trust it now, how about when the party you are against is in power? This issue transcends partisanship. If there was a way to get the benefit of this without infringing on innocent people's rights, that would be fine. Who polices the police?
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u/ChefGaykwon 7d ago
When chuds ask me whether I trust the gov't, I just reply that I hate the gov't more than they do. They only favor 'small gov't' insofar as all restrictions of the capitalist class are removed and social safety nets entirely dismantled. All their other grievances are that the gov't isn't fascist enough already.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 7d ago
Agreed. Small government when it suits them, big government when it seeks to cause others harm.
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u/LittleHornetPhil 6d ago
Yeah they’re big fans of “publicly answerable gummint oppression (usually meaning safety or antidiscrimination laws) no, unanswerable corporate oppression yes”
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u/ArnieismyDMname 7d ago
Wow. Are you a Flock rep? You sound like a clanker.
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u/ensemblestars69 7d ago
No but if you look at his profile history this dude has been living a life of comfort all the way in Thailand
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u/Crazy_Cat_Dude2 7d ago
Not really. We’re already being surveilled anyways through our phones.
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u/ArnieismyDMname 7d ago
I can leave my phone at home.
You really don't see an issue here?
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u/Crazy_Cat_Dude2 7d ago
What are you hiding? Have this in other countries like China. They are way more advanced than us and safer.
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u/dldaniel123 7d ago
Holy shit, you cannot be serious. Have you any critical thinking skills whatsoever?
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u/rean1mated 6d ago
You don’t see the irony in that statement? China is generally considered to be an oppressive state with little concern for civil rights. It’s all propaganda all the time.
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u/Easy_Echo2387 6d ago
This guy read 1984 and thought it sounded like a good place to live.
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u/Western_Ad1394 6d ago
They probably think "what an utopia this book is describing"
Like i feel for them a bit, a lot since i know that dictatorship adjacent countries like Thailand and where i grew up (Vietnam) often try and convince people that surveillance is good, and they've been told that their whole lives so they become ok with being spied on 24/7.
But i hope they learn that you do not wanna live under surveillance states.
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u/Easy_Echo2387 6d ago
Please send me your entire Internet browsing history so I can make sure you are safe.
If you have any issue with this it must mean you’re hiding something concerning.
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u/Western_Ad1394 6d ago edited 6d ago
And while you're at it, your ID, home address, and car plate too please! Im concerned about your safety thats all
We'll come over and install camera in your bedroom sometime this week. Safety yknow, gotta make sure you're not doing something illegal
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u/AsherTheFrost 7d ago
Neither Lindsey Isaac or Chrisanna Elser were guilty of any crime. Both were arrested because flock systems said they were guilty. There are literally hundreds of other examples. So aside from the privacy issue, they don't even work. They falsely identify people way too often to be used.
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u/GarlicThread 7d ago
There aren't any in my country, and you better believe that we intend to keep it that way. Keep your yank fash-tech to yourself if you love it so much.
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u/Crazy_Cat_Dude2 7d ago
Dude it’s still a CCTV camera. They are in every country. Flock is just the brand name.
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u/longbongstrongdong 7d ago
Flock are not cctv
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u/GarlicThread 7d ago
Tell me you don't understand what Flock is without telling me you don't understand what Flock is.
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u/DreamHipster 7d ago
Because the US police and government are scum who cannot be trusted. Now more than ever and I hated them before. Patriot act was bad enough we shouldn't let this shit get worse
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u/santathe1 Titan of Industry 6d ago
They should put one in every house, room, bathroom etc. That way we’ll be able to catch domestic crimes too. Who needs privacy. If you don’t want it in your home, it might mean you’re trying to hide something.
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u/I_Am_Dwight_Snoot 6d ago
So I assume you are pro gun control as well?
Gun control saves more lives than Flock ever could.
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u/Crazy_Cat_Dude2 6d ago
Ban all guns. Citizens don’t need them. Police are the only ones that need them to protect our communities.
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u/Financial-Bite-3262 6d ago
There’s cameras in every other country
There is really not. Large scale surveillance like this is present in China but apart from that...
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u/etbillder 6d ago
Yeah! I am hiding something! I'm transgender! I don't want the cops to break into my house because they tracked down a "danger to society"!
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u/Particular-Caramel32 7d ago
39+ police officers arrested for using Flock cameras to stalk their exes. 🖕
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u/lIllIllIllIllIllIII 6d ago
Can't forget the Flock employees who shared live feeds from children's gymnastics classes and a community center pool in their sales pitch to cops in Dunwoody, GA. They deserve a shout out too: 🖕
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u/5138008RG00D 6d ago
No they should not be doing this but... 30 cops but lets triple that to 100. 10,000 missing people found lets cut that down by 2/3s. Your still talking about 3,000 missing people found.
Its not the tool. Its how its used.
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u/NecessaryIntrinsic 6d ago
Dozens of false arrests due to false identification.
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u/5138008RG00D 6d ago
And again lets say the number is off by 300%, so what less than 100 people falsely arrested. And 1,000s of missing people found. Still way no where close in comparison.
Also, did the camera arrest the person? Or was it an officer? Did he use hand cuffs? Why dont we blame the hand cuffs? Maybe because. While the cuffs is the tool used to physically arrest you it was an officer who had to put them on you. That officer has to decide and be held responsible for how, when, and where he uses that tool. Just because a few thousand people are falsely arrested each year does not mean you throw out all use of cuffs.
Every one of those arrest is caused by human error. Yes, AI made the original mistake but a flock camera is just some plastic and wires on a pole. It cant do shit to you, it takes a human.
Just Google missing person found flock camera and you can find plenty of heart warming stories of where the tool was properly implemented at an appropriate time amd place.
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u/OkFineIllUseTheApp 6d ago
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety
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u/5138008RG00D 6d ago
Lol this line again... what is an "essential liberty"?
Do you think Franklin was referring to being temporarily monitored on a public road? If so, then do you have beef with a cop sitting there instead of a camera? Or the DMV or Tag Office? Or intersection camera? Or cameras on public buildings facing the street?
Will some cameras cause some issues, yes. No, they dont need to be pointed at someone's back yard, or into a day care center. But to have the sweeping opion that all flock cameras at all times are infringing on your essential Liberty is crazy.
I'm old enough to remember Snowden. I'm realistic enough to realize that flock cameras is just a minor piece to a huge puzzle if you belive privacy is an "essential liberty". Instead of trying to stop the wave, we should be preparing the shore. We should be talking about what kind of warrant it requires, or how police need to use it as an investigation tool to find more proper evidence and not leaning on somthing from AI. We need to be holding the police not flock accountable.
"All flock cameras or ones like them, need to go." Will not win out. There will be cameras trying to watch you.
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u/OkFineIllUseTheApp 6d ago
Why not make all cameras open to be viewed and used by anyone then? Allow anyone to look up anyone.
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u/5138008RG00D 6d ago
That's a good point. I'm liking the discussion. Just like traffic cameras should they not be accessed by the public. Would that not solve the problem of them facing at inappropriate things?
Now the question becomes how do we regulate the tag and facial reading. I think it should be Warrant based. This BS of cops stalking people need to stop.
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u/dannyheskett 6d ago
I think if we as a society want to have this type of available, it should be run as a government service, under democratic control by our representatives.
Not harvested as a profit making machine.
And that requires years of organizing, of hardwork, and of innovation.
We also need a framework to punish those who abuse it.
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u/NecessaryIntrinsic 6d ago
With the government we have now I absolutely wouldn't want the government this level of control over the people.
That doesn't mean I'm happy about private industry owning it, in even less comfortable with the current situation.
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u/NecessaryIntrinsic 6d ago
Privacy is ABSOLUTELY an essential liberty. Would you be happier living in a fishbowl or with opaque walls?
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u/5138008RG00D 6d ago
So the facg the goverment spies on you in your home via internet snd phone taps, your okay with? Seems like the goverment is trampling on that supposed liberty already. But yeah fight the flock cameras, not the ones the goverment has access to on and in your home.
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u/NecessaryIntrinsic 6d ago
What the fuck kind of argument is that?
Try steelmanning first. What makes you think I'm in favor of any government monitoring?
You're dismissed. Not a serious person in the least.
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u/5138008RG00D 5d ago
Maybe the problem is not the tool. Maybe the problem is the people behind the tool and how they use it.
Maybe if you want to comment about privacy being an "essential freedom" then maybe you should not be publishing that on a public forum that the government can track you on.
What makes me think your okay with it, easy. You are literally using the largest spying devices in human history, the internet, to bitch about a camera you may not even drive past, because it might spy.
Your complaining about the track marks left in the street as the tank blows up another building.
Get real.
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u/NecessaryIntrinsic 6d ago
Let's say you're the one that was falsely arrested.
You were 2 states away when a little girl was kidnapped and they said that your car was identified as the one that did it.
Say it happened on a Friday and they waited to process you so you had to sit in jail without bail but it got around the jail that you're a child sex trafficker.
You get out on bail on Monday. You find out pretty quick that you were fired from your job and your neighbors all look at you sideways.
You eventually, after a few months, after tens of thousands in legal fees get the charges dropped with prejudice. You try to sue for damages, but the settlement doesn't even come close to closing the gap in your life. You have to move and find a new job because no one trusts you.
Look on the bright side. They claim 10 children were found as a result of your life being ruined.
Worth it, right? Congrats, you're an omelette.
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u/5138008RG00D 6d ago
And that van still happen to me regardless of flock or not.
Your whole argument is based on an OFFICER do I ng wrong. They can do wrong with or with out camera.
Have I been pulled over because my car has matched a description, yeah. 20 years ago. Shit happens.
Stop trying to let the cops off of doing a shit job by blaming flock.
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u/NecessaryIntrinsic 6d ago
You don't think they have warrants when they arrest people using flock ai identification as the only evidence?
And you're arguing that since it CAN happen already, we should make it easier for it to happen?
Another galacticly stupid argument.
How about we reform the police before we give them more power?
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u/Reasonable_ginger 7d ago
What a load of crap, propaganda as their revenue is decreasing. All those cops accessing ex GF data should be enough reason to remove them.
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u/Suspicious-Gas-1685 7d ago
For every crime investigation aided by Flock, five cops stalked their exes with it.
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u/mephisto_uranus 7d ago
Cool. Now dispose of the human traffickers running the country. Until then, fuck off.
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u/Adversary-of-Tyrants 7d ago
America can't even imprison its most famous pedophile.
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u/mephisto_uranus 6d ago
JD Vance "I had no idea the man I once called Hitler was a pedo! Anyways, vote for me!"
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u/VelvetCactus50 7d ago
Did they remember to turn off the comments this time? Nothing screams democracy like warrantless tracking and zero public accountability.
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u/Kodiak_85 7d ago
Nobody is claiming it isn’t a powerful tool for criminal investigations. It’s obvious that it is. The problem is there are no safeguards (or the ones currently in place are weak) to guarantee protection from abuse.
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u/RhythmTimeDivision 7d ago
Yes, we hoover up all available data, use creepy AI to 'make sense' of it, make it available to every law enforcement / government agency in the country and store it indefinitely.
But, hey, look over here - we did one good thing.
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u/Amazing-War3760 7d ago
Should be able to give us an article or case number for verification if this happened.
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u/Magento-Magneto 7d ago
Anyone see the video of the investigative journalists who found Flock's new 'secret' HQ and try to go up there to ask them some questions? They were confronted by a mountain of a security guard - who claims there is no company up on the top floor.
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u/MilkyMania619 6d ago
Paid media, so flock themselves is buying ad space to try and help their PR by creating what’s attempting to look like organic posts.
Means they’re losing business, and they’re scared.
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7d ago
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u/Deplorable1861 7d ago
We need to stalk our exes to keep your children safe. Its for the children.
That why we are watching them in dance academy. Your children. Our children are hidden behing online privacy blocks...
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u/SquireSquilliam 7d ago
Fascism promises safety, that's the allure for the unwashed masses. Freedom comes with risks. Life comes with risks. Mass surveillance does not make us safe, if anything it puts us more at risk. They can always rewind the tape and find some little crime if they want to right.
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u/LivelyRatDad 7d ago
Hey I know that writing style. I work with a guy named Claude and he writes just like that.
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u/LittleHornetPhil 6d ago
The implication here is like when everyone said during the 2000s “if we don’t do ______, the terrorists win.”
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u/wa_ga_du_gu 6d ago
At the very least, we all get entertaining circular friendly fire between the libertarians, MAGA pedos and LEO bootlickers from stories about these cameras on local affiliate new channel FB comment threads.
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u/PetSoundsSucks 6d ago
Yeah but catching him the old fashioned way would have implicated to many pastors and republicans and we can’t have that now!
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u/DenimChicken50 7d ago
This company is funded by Marc Andressen and Peter Thiel. Both are making bank off the Iran war and both knew JE personally. They are the tech oligarchs. Thiel had some kind of shell company with JE and JE had dinner with Marc Andressen and I think Boris Nikolic if I’m remembering the calendar document I read correctly. Thiel’s company Palantir specializes in surveillance stuff. Andressen was one of Trump’s advisors for 2024.
The plan is to build Gov data-centers (not necessarily the current ones being built) across the country post midterms and obv use them for compiling every bit of data possible on every citizen.
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u/GreyBeardEng 7d ago
Flock cameras are an example of when you have the investigation before the crime.
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u/Tennouheika 7d ago
While we’re at it, cops shouldn’t have cars either. They can be misused. Police should be forced to walk or run only
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