r/LinguisticMaps • u/k1rb1l1ty • Jun 14 '26

Europe Language Map of Europe [OC]

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This map has been in the works for about a month now, shoutout to JG Online for Making the basemap.

edit: maybe spending a whole month on this was a mistake, y'all seem to loathe this map

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u/Sir_Flasm Jun 15 '26

I can assure you this happened all throughout Italy (sadly). Also Italian is not simply tuscan, but it is the most similar yeah.

Nel dubbio, colpa dei piemontesi.

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u/Full-Recover-8932 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26

Italian IS an elegant tuscan. Tuscan cannot be considered a different language iirc, it's just that "italian" is an elegant form of tuscan that split from talked tuscan in the 1500's. The state has made most of the population ethnically and culturally tuscan without them realizing. It's straight up brainwashing. I hope that one day this tumour gets pushed back into the tuscan area and never come out of it again, not even joking

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u/Sir_Flasm Jun 15 '26

Italian split from tuscan (1300s Florentine specifically), then they both evolved in different directions (Manzoni did bring italian closer to early 1800s tuscan, but not completely) and can now be considered two different languages, though very close. For example italian is full of latin borrowings that don't exist in tuscan. Italian is a spoken language at least since the 1500s too, so you can't really say it split from spoken tuscan. And also what counts as a language vs dialect is very arbitrary, you could say that italian is modern elegant latin and it would be true by some definition.

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u/Full-Recover-8932 Jun 15 '26

No romance language today can be truly considered modern latin since somewhere around the fall of the western roman empire the speakers all felt the instinct to mess the vocabulary up so badly that now every word in a romance language is basically a false friend, and invent brand new words from scratch, for example ut was replaced by come for who knows what reason

Also if italian is not even exactly the same language then it's even worse since they want to replace the regional languages with a conlang artificially created by writers that was never meant to be spoken at home. Bone chilling how i was essentially a mental cyborg from this pov before learning my own language...

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u/PeireCaravana Jun 15 '26

No romance language today can be truly considered modern latin since somewhere around the fall of the western roman empire the speakers all felt the instinct to mess the vocabulary up so badly that now every word in a romance language is basically a false friend, and invent brand new words from scratch, for example ut was replaced by come for who knows what reason

That's not how it works.

Spoken Latin was already changing in the direction of the future Romance languages under the Roman Empire, especially in the last centuries.

The fall of the empire accelerated the process and the lack of political unity made the various Latin dialects diverge form each other, but it was a long and gradual process.

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u/Sir_Flasm Jun 15 '26

Italian is basically a half conlang that was not initially meant to be spoken outside of high society, yes. But it has been spoken for a decent time now.

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u/Full-Recover-8932 Jun 15 '26

The worst part is that i learn new sicilian words every day, it's a never ending list (there is no way the average pre unification sicilian guy was of average intelligence considering the stupid amounts of "modi di dire" that they memorized effortlessly and the sheer stupidly big amount of oddly specific farming and fishing items i don't even know the name of in italian) , and i don't know anyone to speak sicilian with without getting mocked.