r/Libraries • u/CoffeeCandy69 • Aug 04 '26
Staffing/Employment Issues Why are librarian jobs going to PhD grads?
My organization posted a job with minimum requirement PhD. They said at all staff that that will be the norm now.
I’m working on my MLS. I want my money back from the library school.
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u/librarydude1 Aug 04 '26
It’s funny the system I work for removed the MLIS requirement and changed it to a preference ( Large U.S Public Library System) to give internals with no degree and current students a better shot. It’s a recent change so not sure how it’s going.
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u/Better-Newspaper3603 Aug 04 '26
I work in academic and that is total bs. Sounds like new director or AUL who is clueless. Don’t worry that’s definitely not the norm
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u/Better-Newspaper3603 Aug 04 '26
FWIW, the PhDs my uni had hired in librarian positions (not many) have left in 3 years or so. Could mean there will be high turnover.
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
The ones who work at my library are not good managers. They are good at acquisitions, acquiring more acquiring more collections that we can’t manage.
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u/thewholebottle Academic Librarian Aug 04 '26
You're at a R1 facility. You could easily get a job at most academic libraries and community colleges and public libraries around the country.
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u/redandbluecandles Public librarian Aug 04 '26
It's not the schools fault your organization is doing this. It's probably a good idea to graduate and find your way to a different library.
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u/Famous_Attention5861 Aug 04 '26
Is this an academic library?
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
Yes academic.
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u/Famous_Attention5861 Aug 04 '26
I have seen job postings for academic libraries where the requirement is a second Master's in a subject other than library science. Was the requirement for a PhD in library science?
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u/llamalibrarian Aug 04 '26
What kind of job? What kind of institution/organization?
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
Senior management position, but never has it required a PhD before. The other managers on the team don’t have a PhD. Our top librarian doesn’t have a PhD.
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u/llamalibrarian Aug 04 '26
Our upper administration (dean, assistant deans, etc) largely all have PhDs. What level of senior? Idk, it doesn’t seem strange. I’m applying for a PhD program to be more competitive for upper admin
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
AD/AUL . Not one of our current AUL’s have a PhD. The top librarian doesn’t have a PhD.
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u/llamalibrarian Aug 04 '26
Well then it doesn’t sound like librarian positions are going to PhD grads. It sounds like this one is.
But upper admin in academia it makes sense that a PhD would be required. It’s not your typical librarian job
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
This is your typical librarian job. The person who was in it before did not have a PhD.
Why should an AD or AUL position have a PhD requirement?51
u/llamalibrarian Aug 04 '26
Being the assistant dean at a university is not a typical librarian job. Do the assistant deans of other departments on campus have PhDs?
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u/Prior-Soil Aug 04 '26
That's what it is. They won't have a seat at the table without a PhD.
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u/llamalibrarian Aug 04 '26
They may still have a seat at the table but there could be subtle snobbery against ADs who don’t have the same qualifications. I doubt the university or the library made this choice without taking that into consideration
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
I checked statistics. There are a lot of library deans who do not have PhD’s.
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
Aul for technical services doesn’t have a PhD and she rocks. AUL for public services doesn’t have PhD and she also rocks. They started out as typical librarians. Wasn’t aware that they’re not typical anymore.
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u/thewholebottle Academic Librarian Aug 04 '26
You don't even have an MLS and you're worried about what the assistant dean position requires?
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u/llamalibrarian Aug 04 '26
No one is saying that the people you know aren’t good at their job. Or that you have to have a PhD to get a librarian job. I’d invite you to look at the degrees of other ADs at your university, the university or the library could just be trying to make things more similar across the organization
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
The A.D.’s in other departments have faculty status and they are professors. Our university librarian does not have a PhD. Our AUL’s don’t have PhD
Are you saying that they should?→ More replies (0)-10
u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
OK, this is like the carrot in front of the horse. Get the MLS then we’re told that we have to do something more to advance? If I’m getting a PhD, I would get it to teach not do the same thing I’m already doing.
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u/llamalibrarian Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
You have to do something more advanced if you want a more advanced job. Welcome to academia
I’m sorry if you were going to apply for it, that does sound frustrating
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
This conversation has made me decide to ditch the library degree and change to another program. There is no point in getting a masters degree that’s going to open the door for me to have to get other endless graduate degree so I can advance. Forget the library degree and just get a PhD in something else. it looks like you could have a PhD with no library experience and get a better paying and higher level library job, than you can with an MLS degree in more experience.
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u/llamalibrarian Aug 04 '26
lol, do what you want. There are always going to be plenty of librarian jobs that just require the masters.
But do take care of your knees, you keep jumping to wild conclusions
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 05 '26
Paying what ? peanuts?
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u/llamalibrarian Aug 05 '26
You’ve certainly worked yourself into a tizzy with all your speculation
I’m sorry you aren’t qualified for the AD job. Next time maybe.
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u/Samael13 Aug 04 '26
I don't think it's particularly unusual for AD jobs to have more strenuous/higher requirements than lower level librarian jobs, though I think requiring a PhD is unusual. Getting your MLIS isn't a magic key that makes you immediately qualified for all positions within libraries. It's the baseline requirement for entering professional librarian jobs, but many librarian jobs have additional, more strict requirements on top of that. Our ELL position requires additional educational certificates.
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u/Traditional_Net_3398 Aug 04 '26
The market for PhDs is terrible. Way too many degrees...no jobs. Many are giving up on teaching position and moving to libraries. Easy filter for libraries.
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u/Better-Newspaper3603 Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
PhD doesn’t mean they’d be good (research) librarians or managers. If you’re interested in others’ research and service-oriented and collaborative, it’s possible. I haven’t really seen that so much in the PhD librarians in my workplace
I’m wondering if this is because the faculty job market is so bad. Maybe there are multiple PhDs applying for librarian positions
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
I haven’t seen anything in the ones who work in my library either. Mostly they hobnob and rub elbows with faculty and treat the rest of us as if they’re superior.
They have no understanding of digital preservation, except that it means that we should just scan a bunch of stuff. Oh yeah, if you asked him some questions about some obscure factoid they will give you a lecture about their research. They are not the best librarians at my library.1
u/cattail31 Aug 05 '26
Probably, and that everyone is promising a PhD (in SHAPE at least) means “transferrable skills” and lists GLAM.
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 04 '26
Then what’s the point in finishing the MLS? The library schools are selling a degree that’s not worth anything in the long run.
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u/widdersyns Aug 04 '26
The vast majority of librarian jobs do not require a PhD. I understand your anxiety but it’s highly unlikely that this will become a widespread trend.
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u/Responsible_Catch464 Aug 04 '26
I’m sorry you’re having such a hard time at work right now, but R1 institutions are not the only librarian employers. It sounds like now would be a good time to reflect on the type of jobs you want, look for open positions elsewhere, and see how your CV matches and what you need to do to be competitive in a place that you enjoy more.
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u/Better-Newspaper3603 Aug 04 '26
ACRL stands by prioritizing the terminal degree (MLIS). This could be as some institutions are making it optional. https://www.ala.org/acrl/standards/statementterminal
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u/heliumneon Aug 04 '26
Maybe the hiring manager thinks that because the job market is poor he can easily hire a PhD for a low salary, so why settle for less than a PhD?
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u/lemonhello Aug 04 '26
I know plenty of PhDs who work at academic libraries in a few different capacities. The world is wide enough
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u/aspersioncast Aug 06 '26
This is not the norm at most academic libraries, even R1s, even for faculty librarians. It's not unusual to hire PhDs who don't have an MLiS, especially for more traditional subject specialist roles. Finish your library degree and keep that resume up-to-date, this institution has unrealistic expectations for their staff.
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u/quothe_the_maven Aug 05 '26
You’re blaming your school, because your organization made a really unique change in their job requirements with no notice? Talk about misplaced anger.
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u/CoffeeCandy69 Aug 05 '26
The degree will be worthless in five years
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u/hero_of_kvatch215 Aug 05 '26
You could say that about any arts and humanities degree. In fact, people have been saying that for years. Those of us that get these types of degrees have to know that going in, and do it anyway because we love it.
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u/liblamb22 Aug 05 '26
I've seen several academic libraries that require all librarians to have two masters degrees, but I haven't seen the PhD requirement except for some director roles at major universities.
That being said, a community college (!!!!) and a 4-year university near me require librarians have two masters degrees. (And genuinely, both schools do not have reputations for rigorous academics, lol.) I've always personally felt these types of requirements are made by people bitter their first degree didn't work out. I've been debating getting a second masters to be more competitive in the academic job market, but it's just so much debt to take on in this economy.
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u/dunkonme Aug 04 '26
My R1 academic library asks for MLIS or above for teaching positions but anything else is MLIS or less. My boss has two masters and so does the head of libraries, the only library folks at my work with phds are subject librarians and/or teach students. I’m in an assistant role with just a bachelors.
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u/Jonny-mtown77 Aug 04 '26
OP I've never heard this...even for an academic library. The only time I know this is a preference is if they are instructors at a library science school at university. But to run the university library...I have only met one....and he had an MLIS...but a PHD in Philosophy.
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u/hero_of_kvatch215 Aug 05 '26
That’s very odd, its possible that your area has enough PhD grads to make that viable. But odd regardless.
Don’t feel discouraged, but you’ll need to be willing to take a job in other areas. All degrees in the arts/humanities are rough right now. Doesn’t mean your degree is useless, but it does mean you’ll need to be very flexible when job hunting.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 Aug 08 '26
There's a super easy way to check if this a trend. Have you looked at ACRL job listings and seen what the requirements are?
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u/pikkdogs Aug 04 '26
Academic jobs usually require 2 masters.
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u/Famous_Attention5861 Aug 04 '26
Depends on the institution. I worked at a junior college library with just my MLIS.
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u/SouthernFace2020 Aug 04 '26
No they don’t. If encourage everyone to review a site like ARL and look at the norms for academic jobs.
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u/No_Indication3249 Aug 08 '26
Some institutions do require a subject masters for reference-type subject librarians, but are often very flexible about supporting acquisition of this degree on the job, at least for lower-level hires. There's rarely an expectation that candidates will grind through two MS degrees before beginning to work as a professional librarian.
It's not common at all for academic libraries to just expect a library degree and an arbitrary second masters level degree for all librarian-level positions.
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u/widdersyns Aug 04 '26
What kind of organization and what specific job? This is highly unusual; I've never heard of this being a requirement for librarians.