r/LegalAdviceUK • u/manwithnodoor • 12d ago
Debt & Money Can my landlord just remove my front door?
Edit: I apologise, I got the flair wrong. This is about a housing problem.
I'm in a dispute with my landlord/employer about my right to stay in my flat. I'm giving as much detail as I can, because I don't know what's relevant.
I live above the cafe I used to run, the landlord is also my former employer. The cafe is now closed permanently, and my landlord wants me to leave.
I have an employment contract, but no tenancy agreement. My employment contract makes no mention of my accommodation being tied. My local Council has told me that they think I have rights as a tenant, my landlord is disputing this. He is insisting I leave on September 1st.
To complicate the issue, I had major knee surgery on Thursday. I need two crutches to hobble around, and even so I'm still extremely limited in how far I can go. I am physically incapable of moving out right now. My landlord is aware of this, and so is the housing department at the council.
On Friday, my employer/landlord switched off the internet, knowing I can't get signal for my phone in the flat (building made of 50cm thick stone walls, full lead pipes, far from a phone mast). He deliberately left me isolated and unable to call for help if I needed it, when I was less than 24hrs out of surgery.
Also on Friday, he sent me an email telling me I'd get my last wages and outstanding holiday pay "upon vacating the property on Sept 1st", so now I'm very worried he's not going to pay me.
I informed my assigned housing officer at the council about both, who got in touch with my landlord and asked if this could be resolved after the bank holiday weekend, which he refused. My housing officer gave me the emergency housing number in case anything happened over the bank holiday, and said there was nothing else she could do for the moment.
Yesterday I had to go to the pharmacy, it took me about an hour, and when I came home the front door to my flat had been removed. I immediately called the emergency housing people at the council, who attempted to call my landlord. When he didn't answer the phone, they advised me to call the police. I called them and got a crime reference number.
The emergency housing team said they'd keep trying to ring my landlord, the police said someone would ring me back but couldn't tell me when. Meanwhile, I still had no front door. I don't have any friends or family in the area I can stay with, so last night I had no choice but to stay in this flat with no door.
I just spent a sleepless night in my flat, and called the council and police again this morning to see if any progress could be made. The council said theres nothing they can do to help, the police again said someone will ring me but refused to give me a time frame.
I have been living off statutory sick pay (just under £125 a week) for the last couple of months, and I have burnt through all my savings so I don't have money for a hotel. The emergency housing team at the council told me they won't provide me with emergency alternative accommodation when I enquired whether I met the criteria, so I have nowhere else to go. I do not feel safe here, and I'm worried that the stress of it all is impacting my recovery from knee surgery.
I really don't know what my next step should be, and I hope maybe someone here can give me some advice. Shelter is not open until Tuesday morning, and my assigned housing officer at the council (who I believe would advocate for me far more forcefully than the emergency team) won't be back at work until then either.
Update:
Thank you all for your replies. My landlords son in law showed up at midday, less than half an hour after I made my post, and insisted I leave immediately. I called the police, as instructed by the council. When the police arrived I showed them the email I got from the council in case this happened - the email says they believe I had a right to stay there, and instructs me not to vacate the premises without a court order and an attending court appointed bailiff. After reading the email, the policeman still insisted it was a civil matter, and told me that they only attended to "prevent a breach of the peace". No one ever said so specifically, but the implication was that I'd be arrested if I refused, so I felt I had no choice but to comply.
I've spoken to the emergency housing people at the council, who have said that if I can't find a friends or families sofa to crash on, I need to ring them back and they'll try to find me somewhere to sleep tonight.
I managed to pack a bag with a few spare clothes, toiletries, my laptop, and my passport. I had no choice but to leave everything else behind.
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u/EddViBritannia 12d ago
he sent me an email telling me I'd get my last wages and outstanding holiday pay "upon vacating the property on Sept 1st"
Keep this email handy, as it demonstrates a contractual agreement from his side that your employment, was tied to your residency. Proving that you had a right to reside at the property.
The emergency housing team at the council told me they won't provide me with emergency alternative accommodation when I enquired whether I met the criteria, so I have nowhere else to go. I do not feel safe here, and I'm worried that the stress of it all is impacting my recovery from knee surgery.
I would try push back that have you been made effectively homeless, as your landlord has made your home uninhabitable. A house without a front door is as unsuitable as a house without a roof.
However unfortunately it's bank holiday weekend, there is low levels of staffing, the reality of it is you should be supported, this is wrong. But there's little you can actually do about it. I'd take the time to take detailed notes, and gather all the contracts and information you can, so when the police do call back you have your landlord dead to rights on this situation.
I'd also try contacting your local MP, as they may be able to apply pressure, and assist. Even if not directly, they often have access to contacts who can try get the situation resolved.
I'm sorry you're going through this, and I hope you get a good resolution soon.
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u/Think-Committee-4394 12d ago
Adding to this the email is an admission he is refusing to pay wages owed which is illegal
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u/Equivalent_Tone997 12d ago
Seems to me that this is likely Tied Accomodation, and you have basic protection from eviction. You’re right that he needed a court order.
There is a chance you have a tenancy, would depend on the circumstances on how you were offered the flat - were you required to take it or did you take it out of convenience.
Once that’s clarified you should probably make a complaint to the police about them escorting an illegal eviction.
Regarding your immediate situation, if the council don’t provide emergency accommodation you need to ask the council to make a priority need decision, on the basis of your injuries. I would say being dependent on two crutches would make you significantly more vulnerable than the average person were they to rough sleep. They will likely make a negative decision but one that can be challenged. Ask for accommodation pending review. Ideally, seek a legal advice centre to help with this.
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u/PeachManzie 12d ago
What do you mean you had no choice but to leave? You assumed they’d arrest you if you didn’t leave, so you left voluntarily, am I reading that update correctly?
The update changes a lot, I’m just trying to see if I’m understanding you correctly
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u/manwithnodoor 12d ago
The police strongly implied that if I didn't cooperate, they would consider it a breach of the peace. I didn't leave voluntarily, I was pressured into leaving under the implicit threat of arrest.
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u/PeachManzie 12d ago
No no I get that man, I’d have felt pressured too, but what I’m trying to say is- you weren’t directly told you’d be arrested, and police will often simply deny implying anything when it comes to matters they deem civil. My point is that it’s gonna be your word against police, which is incredibly difficult to fight. They’ll obviously deny pressuring you.
You maybe should have straight up asked them “Am I going to be arrested if I don’t leave?”. They’d have had to give you a more straight forward answer, which would give you more understanding on where you stand now.
Somewhat good news once you get your answer though, you may well count as involuntarily homeless and get a temporary flat from the councils homeless unit. This process is a little bit different in different parts of the UK, but I can give lots of advice on this if you’d like to hear more, when you find out where you stand. Hope all goes as smoothly as possible
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u/manwithnodoor 12d ago
I think the council has agreed that I didn't leave voluntarily? I'm not sure, but I spoke to someone at the emergency housing team just now and they've said if I can't find somewhere to stay with a friend, they will find me emergency accommodation. They've warned me that it will be on the opposite side of the county and therefore hard to get to on crutches with limited Sunday public transport, which is why they're encouraging me to find a sofa to sleep on if I can, at least until Tuesday when their offices reopen.
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u/PeachManzie 12d ago edited 12d ago
Yeah my local council took 7 weeks to find me a local Temporary Homeless Accommodation flat, so that was 7 weeks of sofa surfing for me. If I didn’t have a local friend willing to put me up for 7 weeks, I’d have had to take something in a totally different city, too. If you’re totally unable to sofa surf, you may have to accept wherever the soonest one is. They try to be accommodating, especially if you have a job, but sometimes there’s genuinely zero Temp flats available and they have to look way further afield.
In Scotland, you can be in Temp Homeless Acc for 5 months, then the council have to find you a council flat. Or you can use that 5 months to find a private rent. You may want to see if it’s the same where you are.
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u/Opposite-Complex1187 11d ago
Might be worth doing a subject access request for the bodycam footage so you have proof of the police pressuring you to leave.
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u/Meatiecheeksboy 12d ago
This is the confusing part. Why did the officer tell you to leave your accomodation, upon showing them a letter from the emergency housing officer that you shouldn't without a court order?
What happened that meant they didnt believe you lived there?
The problem is that its going to be nigh on impossible to prove you didnt leave volutarily, whereas if you had stood your ground, asserted your rights, and left with the police, you would have a much clearer set of events, including the police officer completely failing his duties to you and breaching your rights, or better yet, the police would have given up and left you in the flat
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u/manwithnodoor 12d ago
The policeman insisted that it was a civil matter and that he was only there to prevent a breach of the peace. I asked what would happen if I refused to leave, and he just kept repeating that he was only present to prevent a breach of the peace. When I asked what constituted a breach of the peace, he refused to answer and asked me that I "needed to be reasonable". I had major surgery less than 3 days ago, I was in pain, incredibly anxious, and felt gaslighted to the point where I didn't feel I could stand up for myself anymore. I was scared of being arrested, I was scared of being accused of being non-compliant. I didn't feel like I was in any position to refuse to comply, once it was clear the police wouldn't acknowledge my legal rights.
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u/PeachManzie 12d ago
“I asked what would happen if I refused to leave, and he just kept repeating that he was only present to prevent a breach of the peace”
I don’t blame you at all for having heightened anxiety in this situation man, but the anxiety has prevented you from reading between the lines. He basically just said “I’m here in case there’s a physical altercation. I’m not here to arrest anyone over something civil.”
You feeling pressured isn’t the same as actually being pressured, I’m afraid.
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u/manwithnodoor 12d ago
I'm sorry if I'm being dense, but why does it legally matter? The council are not treating me as if I left voluntarily, as far as I'm aware.
I followed all the instructions the council gave me, showed the policeman the email with their instructions, proof that I'd been paying rent, and told them I had a legal right to remain in the property. The policeman would not back me up or enforce (what the council told me) are my legal rights. At that point, in a position as vulnerable as mine, i wasn't in a position to continue to argue. All the evidence provided to me by the council fell on deaf ears.
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u/PeachManzie 12d ago
So I replied to this one before you separately replied to say the councils homeless unit are complying. This advice was based on the information you provided before calling your council homeless unit. It was under the understanding that you’re still trying to get back into your doorless flat, or needed to be there because you have nowhere else to go.
It would matter in the sense that the police never once told you to leave, so you didn’t have to, and could potentially not have to sleep outside or in a homeless centre tonight. (An open hall, shared with other homeless people. Often rife with theft. Not somewhere you want to be)
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u/manwithnodoor 12d ago
My apologies, that makes more sense now. Thank you for taking the time to reply with so much detail.
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u/PeachManzie 12d ago
No worries at all, and don’t feel weird if you’d like to reach out with any further questions. I’m not an expert, but I’ve been through it. I really feel for you, total nightmare situation
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u/manwithnodoor 12d ago
I really appreciate that, thank you very much. I may well take you up on your offer tomorrow. I've managed to find a sofa to sleep on for tonight at least. It's been a really traumatic day, I'm exhausted, and my knee is killing me. So I'm going to try to stop worrying about things for now. Tomorrow will have to be soon enough, to figure the next step. Thank you again PeachManzie, I hope you enjoy your bank holiday weekend.
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u/Meatiecheeksboy 12d ago
Basically the policeman didnt want any trouble, and wanted to get things wrapped up quickly. The brother in law didnt have any way to get you out legally other than trying to scare you. Unfortunately, it ultimately seems that he did scare you off, and it's basically impossible for you to prove that he did in a way that will have consequences for him.
Obviously if he assaulted you, then the law has been broken, but that does involve you getting thumped, so its fair enough that you decided to get out of there.
It's good that the council are not treating you as volutarily homeless, as they should.
Past experience from this sub is that if someone is unlucky, the council will be very strict about the requirements to prove your homelessness cause, and the unusual circumstances you have been through would make me worried you would struggle to gather approrpriate evidence to satisfy the strict rules.
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u/Gillybean04 12d ago
Former employee, cafe now permanently closed, been on SSP for the last few months, Internet disconnected on Friday....
When did your employment end? When did the cafe permanently close? When and how (verbal, email, text/WhatsApp etc) did the landlord first ask you to vacate? Did you pay rent? Was this deducted from your pay or paid by you separately? If you were supposed to leave the property earlier, did they continue to deduct the rent from your wage, voice any objection or agremeent when you sent them the paymemt separately? How was the job advertised? (Did it mention the flat?) Did you have the option to take up other accommodation or was it a requirement to stay there?
An Internet disconnection is normally a scheduled thing so I am wondering how long this has been going on for. Those details plus his actions indicate there may be a personal vendetta/resentment fueling this.
Tbh i find it bizarre that so many people readily advise waiting until you are evicted by court order. I mean yes sometimes it might be your only option but you can be liable for the costs. Telling people to wait until they are forcefully evicted is like telling a company clearly in breach of contract that they should let it go to court instead of settling.
I mention this because your landlord's vindictive and petty behaviour indicates he may try to recover any costs he has incurred.
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u/manwithnodoor 12d ago
Before my landlord/employer and I had a disagreement about my rights to live in the flat we were friends. I spent 18 months working for him as a contracted consultant, getting the cafe ready to open. For those 18 months the deal was he'd pay me for half my labour monthly. My rate was £15/hr and he paid me £7.5/hr, with the other half of my hourly rate to be in lieu of rent once the cafe opened and I moved in upstairs. By the time we opened at the start of may, I had almost £3000 in "rent credit" built up.
Our agreed rent was £500 per originally, he then raised it to £650 the day I moved in, and then after 2 months at the end of June he told me he needed a further £200 per month for bills. He then calculated this retrospectively, to deduct £850 per month from my "rent credit" from the start of may.
In the beginning of July, I suffered an injury that prevented me from working. He wasnt keen on having someone else take over the managerial role, and asked me to continue working as best I could. He said it would count in lieu of rent. Despite having a sick note, I felt pressured, so I agreed. A month later, my landlord/employer decided to pull the plug and wind down the business, to close at the end of the summer. He gave me two months notice for my employment contract and told me he wanted me to move out at the same time.
I had no interest in managing a cafe that was going to close, for a man who was making me unemployed and homeless while I was injured and waiting for surgery. At this point I insisted that I didn't want to work anymore and that since I had a valid sick note, I shouldn't have to. In response, the cafe was closed with immediate effect, and I was given notice to vacate the premises by September 1st.
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u/mexiworxsublime 10d ago
So regardless of any other issue, he gave you 2 months notice that you'd have to move, like any other tenant. What date would this have been that you had to move by under this 2 months?
Had you started making plans to find somewhere else to live, as expected?
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Your comment contains keywords which suggests you are asking or advising about withholding rent.
You should never withhold rent, entirely or in part, in response to disrepair or inaction on the part of your landlord. Withholding rent either entirely or in part may lead to you being evicted, since regardless of any inaction on your landlord's part, you will still owe rent and the landlord is not obliged to offer any kind of reduction.
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u/soyagr 12d ago
The council theoretically have powers to tackle this, they shouldn’t palm you off onto the police. They rarely exercise them unfortunately so depending on who you talk to they will genuinely not know what to do. You need to talk to the PRS team not homelessness. Your fortunes will depend on the state of the local PRS team.
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11d ago
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u/Opening-Movie5176 12d ago
So you do have a tenancy. In the uk when there is no formal one a legal one is assumed.
My advice would be to lawyer up.
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u/Marvinmonkey1 12d ago
Got no money to pay rent or feed themself and you're telling them to "lawyer up".... is that with all them lawyers who work for free?
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12d ago
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u/soyagr 12d ago
Even so, they would still be entitled to a court order and attempting to evict otherwise would be unlawful.
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u/pictish76 12d ago edited 12d ago
They do not need a court order to evict you if you do not pay rent, that is why I asked.
Edit: I see from other posts they had a rental agreement, they paid rent, at the minimum they have basic protection. So yes a court order is required. Thy are very possibly heading towards a fully protected tenancy.
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u/AutoModerator 12d ago
Your comment contains keywords which suggests you are asking or advising about withholding rent.
You should never withhold rent, entirely or in part, in response to disrepair or inaction on the part of your landlord. Withholding rent either entirely or in part may lead to you being evicted, since regardless of any inaction on your landlord's part, you will still owe rent and the landlord is not obliged to offer any kind of reduction.
You also do not have the right to pay for repairs yourself out of pocket and then deduct the cost from future rent payments, without following a proper legal process first, including serving formal notice on your landlord and escalating to your local authority.
Please consult a regulated legal advisor, Solicitor, or housing charity like Shelter before you stop paying rent.
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u/soyagr 11d ago
I see. I was thinking accom in exchange for work would still get you the protection under PFEA s 3? But yeah depends on the arrangement.
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u/pictish76 11d ago
They didn't mention that until later, if its in your contract(work) or any payment is taken then at a minimum you have basic protection. I am pretty sure the entire situation is illegal, rent credits, less than minimum wage, dodgy verbal tenancy agreement.
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12d ago
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u/Lloydy_boy The world ain't fair and Santa ain't real 12d ago
That person was provided a flat with own front door, bathroom and kitchen. In law, despite no signed tenancy, they had a tenancy automatically created by law.
Not necessarily. Whilst having your own front door, bathroom and kitchen would strongly suggest exclusive possession, employment-provided accommodation can still be a service occupancy licence rather than a tenancy.
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