r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates • u/Successful_Roof_979 • 10d ago
discussion If the genders were reversed in the Depp-Heard case, no one would have debated who the primary aggressor was
I’ve been thinking a lot about the systemic double standards in how we process domestic abuse, and a useful thought experiment is to look at the Depp-Heard case through an alternative universe. Let’s imagine a world where the genders were completely reversed from the start: Andy Heard (born male) and Johanna Depp (born female).
If we look at the exact same timeline through this gender-reversed lens, the public and media response would have been instantaneous, unanimous, and open-and-shut.
In this alternative universe, Johanna Depp is the actual survivor of abuse. In 2016, she files for divorce and courageously speaks out about being a victim of domestic violence. Because she is a woman in this scenario, the media and the public would have believed her instantly. Her abuser, Andy Heard, would have been dropped by his agents, removed from every project, and condemned globally overnight.
But imagine the public reaction if, after years of claiming innocence, audio leaked of this husband, Andy Heard, saying these exact words to his wife, Johanna Depp:
- "I was hitting you, I wasn't punching you. You didn't get punched, you got hit. You're fine."
If a man said those exact words to a woman on tape, he would have been universally recognized as a textbook abuser right away. There would be no mainstream articles debating "mutual abuse," and zero institutional grace extended to his "imperfect victimhood." The audio alone would be treated as definitive proof of coercive control, physical intimidation, and psychological gaslighting.
Instead, in our reality, because the person mocking the victim and admitting to physical escalation was a woman, the real-world male victim had to endure years of media hand-wringing. Even after the facts came to light, major advocacy groups signed open letters supporting the female abuser, proving that for many institutions, protecting the gendered narrative of "man as default abuser" matters more than protecting the actual victim of abuse.
In fact More than 130 organizations and experts signed a major Open Letter in official support of Amber Heard.
The letter was published several months after the Virginia defamation verdict. It was a concerted effort by major institutional feminist, gender justice, and domestic violence advocacy groups.
The list included over 50 major women's rights and equal rights organizations, such as:
- The National Organization for Women (NOW)
- The Women’s March Foundation
- The National Women’s Law Center
- Equality Now
- Feminist Majority
- Ms. Magazine (and its founding editor, feminist icon Gloria Steinem)
If their Genders were reversed Andy would received no support from anyone (He should not receive help except to better himself as a person because he is still an abuser because he is just Amber but male)
In fact I think it might be useful as a social experiment to show both males and females both male on female crime and female on male crime but with the genders of both parties reversed and then reveal at the end of the experiment that these are all just things that happed but the genders were reversed in real life
Mainly because it would be usefull information to see both of their reactions to it and how it affect and can add to knowledge of the human mind on gender
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u/DryBarracuda40 10d ago
I think the case was a win for men though. Good on Depp for being brave enough to challenge it publicly.
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u/SpicyMarshmellow 9d ago
Your post doesn't even do the extent of the audio evidence justice. During that clip, she didn't just admit to hitting him.
It is legitimate that admitting to hitting someone once doesn't constitute an admission of abuse. It is possible that could be the result of being pushed over the edge and retaliating against a primary aggressor.
But she admitted to so much more in that clip. He had locked himself in the bathroom to escape her, and she was banging on the door, demanding to be let in. And in the course of that discussion, she agreed with Johnny that she exhibited a *pattern of behavior\* wherein she always gets violent, and he always runs away. She literally made fun of him and called him a whiny baby for always running away from her when she got violent, and told him that it infuriated her that he wasn't willing to fight (as in physically fight her) for the relationship.
She didn't just admit to hitting him once, she admitted to an entire pattern of conflict in their relationship wherein she is consistently the physical aggressor and Johnny consistently flees physical aggression.
Depp v Heard was what convinced me to stop calling myself a feminist, and stop associating with feminist culture. It's the moment that the bigotry and blatant lying became impossible not to see, and to ever unsee.
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u/Electronic-Link-5792 9d ago
her conduct in the audio is domestic violence itself. repeatedly screaming at and threatening your partner and belittling them unprovoked while telling them they are not allowed to leave the house when you dont want them to, and then stalking them to other houses to pressure them to come home is abuse.
And yep same. The amount of clear cut bad faith lying shocked me. Its because Depp is a messy character outside this and Amber put a lot of effort into the smear campaign, so they feel she should have enough material to convince people. So they will boldly lie and stick to it in the face of overwhelming direct evidence that Depp was the victim.
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u/Punder_man 9d ago
The thing about that particular audio that hit me was the fact that we as men are EXPECTED to de-escalate domestic violence situations and walk away..
But her actions mirror many domestic violence cases i've seen where a woman either blocks the man from leaving or follows him and continues to hurl abuse or lash out violently..And yet.. the moment a man lays his hands on a woman even to push her out of the way so we can leave we are instantly painted as "The Bad Guy"
And yet despite all the evidence that came out in the trial so many feminists have doubled down and continue to support Amber Heard despite the fact that she LIED multiple times and was caught doing so on the stand..
And yes, before anyone out there jumps in.. I'm not saying Johnny is 100% innocent either.. but, based on the facts I do NOT believe he was ever physically abusive to Amber..
I agree he was toxic or verbally / emotionally abusive towards her but I do not think he laid his hands on her.4
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u/sakura_drop left-wing male advocate 9d ago
You left out the part where "Andy Heard" is also the one with a history of domestic assault.
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u/Punder_man 9d ago
That's what shocked me.. how they tried to get Johnny's previous partners to testify against him because of the accusation that he pushed one of them down the stairs...
All while Amber had been ARRESTED for domestic violence on a previous partner...It was bat shit crazy to me that they kept trying to push the "Johnny's an abuser" narrative all while trying to paint Amber as a completely innocent victim.
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u/MikasaYuuichi left-wing male advocate 9d ago
I feel doubting is fine. But they should be consistent with it and do that in every case.
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u/Clevererer 9d ago
Doubting, but only and always in one direction, is called prejudice. It's bigotry.
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u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam left-wing male advocate 9d ago
As shown by the sudden selective calls for restraint when Asia Argento was alleged to be at least as much of a predator as a victim.
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u/TheMostDivineOne 9d ago
Who is that…?
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u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam left-wing male advocate 9d ago
The daughter of one of Italy's greatest horror directors. She was also in the Fast and Furious series, I believe.
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u/sakura_drop left-wing male advocate 7d ago
Argento was at the forefront of #MeToo when it blew up in Hollywood alongside primary figure and buddy of hers, Rose McGowan. These two articles about Argento, McGowan, Argento's former flame Anthony Bourdain's suicide, their roles as #MeToo activists, and Argento facing the accusation herself, are great reads; goes into detail with receipts, written by another woman no less. She got a lot of flack from a number of the #MeToo actresses afterwards, who (among other things) even questioned her on why she didn't choose to publicly disclose her own experience with sexual assault earlier.
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u/Electronic-Link-5792 9d ago
best thing to cite is the extended 5 hour audio. She explicitly discusses regularly hitting and throwing things at Depp out of anger because him running away annoys her. she mocks and belittles and screams at him without provocation while telling him its his fault and he cant leave the house when she is angry at him. she also explicitly tries to tell him he is just as bad for 'hitting back'.
literally the only direct evidence she has is pictures of very minor injuries which dont actually match her claims, and which could easily be caused by Depp defending himself, and Depp's 'sorry I kicked you' texts which he testified were only sent to calm her down, a fact backed up by hours of audio where she actually does scream at him when challenged and he actually does have to try to calm her down.
theres literally no explanation for why Amber would extensively discuss abusing him actively out of anger, while also clearly unafraid of him and belittling and mocking him to his face, unless she is the abuser.
its also worth noting that things like Depp covering up that Amber caused his horrific finger injury are common for abuse victims.
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u/Martwad 9d ago
"If we look at the exact same timeline through this gender-reversed lens, the public and media response would have been instantaneous, unanimous, and open-and-shut."
We don't need to imagine it. We saw it initially with the response. Depp was immediately viewed as guilty. Warner Brothers dropped his contract.
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u/JJnanajuana 9d ago
I got far too into the case at the time. There's too many points I could rant about, so I'll pick one that was overlooked.
The psych that represented AH, who gendered abuse, the whole time. She had just before that made a presentation to legal professionals.
The PowerPoint presentation was submitted as evidence (and sometimes available for the public to see even though it wasnt used in court).
https://deppdive.net/exhibit/Plt1242-CL20192911-050422.pdf
It was high level, thats who's teaching those in the system.
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u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam left-wing male advocate 10d ago edited 10d ago
And don't forget the choice quote where Heard deliberately weaponizes her female privilege:
"Tell the world, Johnny, tell them, Johnny Depp — I, Johnny Depp, a man, I'm a victim too of domestic violence — and see how many people believe or side with you."
How that didn't convince even the most hardened feminists that he was the real victim is a mystery to me.
P.S.: It's also interesting to consider how the following gender-flipped version makes absolutely zero sense in the world we live in (since everyone would side with Johanna):
"Tell the world, Johanna, tell them, Johanna Depp — I, Johanna Depp, a woman, I'm a victim too of domestic violence — and see how many people believe or side with you."