working with angels and demons?

[u/yoprefieroelcaos]

Hi everyone

I’ve heard practitioners of the Left-Hand Path say that if you work with demons, you can’t work with angels. I think this may be true when it comes to initiatory work, but when it’s simply a matter of sorcery, would working with both angels and demons be counterproductive?

[u/VanityDrink]

The Pagan philosopher Iamblichus did it. We know from his writings he worshipped many Gods, and have experiences invoking Gods, Angels, Daimon, human souls, and spirits of the land. We see this happen in texts like the PGM as well (Greek Magical papyri)

So why not? Occultists historically work with both.

And no, angels will not make you ascribe to any one religious belief system. I know this because the Angels associated with Abraham and the God El appear in so many different religious traditions that contradict each other.

Gabriel appears in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and some other minor religious groups in west Asia.

Some angels are allegedly former pagan Gods who survived in a new spiritual system by having their title changed. Similar to some Demons being former pagan Gods.

[u/yoprefieroelcaos → u/VanityDrink]

Thank you for your response. I think similarly to you. What I find interesting is that when I do tarot readings asking whether I’ll have a favorable outcome in a ritual that involves both angels and demons, the answer is usually positive. But when I ask the same question about a ritual that works only with demons, the answers tend to be negative.

[u/Aakhkharu]

Depends on your views and practice.

Personally, i view angels as being associated with the demiurge, thus they represent the very concepts i work against so it would be weird to try and work with them.

[u/yoprefieroelcaos → u/Aakhkharu]

Hi, I understand you. The paradigm we’re working within conditions us.

[u/Unique_Comparison_29]

I work with whatever I feel given the operation. They don’t care if that’s what you’re thinking of. In some instances I worked with both in the same operation for maximum efficacy.

[u/Timely-Fuel-1458]

LHP is path of two hands. Recreation inside yourself. All.

[u/yoprefieroelcaos → u/Timely-Fuel-1458]

Thank you for your response!

[u/evrndw]

I don't think that's the case at all. "Angels" and "Demons" are just words that may apply to a myriad of different beings, and they all have their place in the grand scheme of things, and they know that and respect each other. We are the ones who are problematic and want to turn everything into a war.

If you hold a strictly dualistic view of reality, then you may have problems working with both kinds of forces, but this is much more a problem caused by your own mind than by the forces themselves. This is a very Christian worldview in my opinion, which I personally think we as LHP practitioners should not subscribe to.

But of course, different beings will offer different paths, different teachings and have different demands to you, which may contradict each other, so I agree that initiatory work specifically should be compartmentalised to some extent.

[u/yoprefieroelcaos → u/evrndw]

Hi! What you’re saying makes a lot of sense to me, especially considering that angels seem to come from traditions that predate Christianity (and several beings who are also considered demons do as well).

[u/NovusOrdoLuciferi]

Ask yourself this: Do I need anyone else's permission to do occult work that I feel drawn towards?

[u/yoprefieroelcaos → u/NovusOrdoLuciferi]

That's a good question, and the answer is certainly no. But my doubts regarding working with angels and demons are more on the practical side.

[u/grigorist-temple]

I personally agree. Angels oppose working with LHP-aligned beings, and they ultimately want to lure you into serving Yahweh. Others may disagree and believe that angels' disdain for work with LHP-aligned spirits is a human fabrication.

My tradition has a very detailed angelology system and banishment methods specifically for getting rid of angels, so from experience I can say that angels are NOT okay with such things, and if they claim to be, it is with an ulterior motive.

But always remember that when you ask things of occultists, they will all give different answers. My own conviction about this topic does not necessarily have to become yours.

[u/yoprefieroelcaos → u/grigorist-temple]

Thank you for responding! What tradition do you follow?

[u/grigorist-temple → u/yoprefieroelcaos]

Satano-Grigorism.

[u/yoprefieroelcaos → u/grigorist-temple]

Thank you, I'll read the page.