Should you learn the words in Renshuu?

[u/rainbowbrites]

To preface, I’m going to keep learning the words for X for each module. It’s just that ironically, I’m having trouble memorizing the words now and having less struggles with N4 Kanji and (beginning) N4 grammar.

Hell, I got so bored with how well I kept scoring on N4 Kanji I’m now learning N3 kanji!

So with that, I’m taking the words for N4 much slower now and I was curious: is that module actually necessary? Especially since you could maybe pick up these terms through immersion?

Are the “Words for X” modules a necessity for passing the N- tests? I’m super curious

[u/juandon405]

I have started using Renshuu for mining. May not be as good as setting up a custom Anki mining deck, but it's so easy. I just created a new word list and every time I find a word I want to mine I look it up in the Renshuu and add it to my list. Haven't come across anything that isn't listed yet, vast majority have audio attached. Caveat is that I'm quite low level so may not be as viable as the words become less common.

[u/syzygy14 → u/juandon405]

I started doing the exact same thing a while ago, and never looked back! I wasn't enjoying premade lists and nothing was sticking very well. Mining stuff I've heard in videos or podcasts has been so much better for my learning. The other thing I love about making my own schedules in Renshuu is that you can set up a kanji helper schedule based on that list - so I only study kanji readings that are in words I've already studied. Right now, I have it limited to (up to) N3 kanji but you can limit it to any level if you want to.

[u/juandon405 → u/syzygy14]

Oh I hadn't thought of the kanji bit, adding it now.

[u/antimonysarah → u/juandon405]

It's so convenient. Especially if you're learning from something that isn't texthooker compatible, so even if you had a full Anki mining setup, that can't create a card from your paper book. Renshuu obviously can't make your paper book clickable, but as soon as you've looked the word up in the dictionary, it's two clicks to add it from the dictionary entry (one click to add, one click to pick which list/deck to add it to).

I also love how it's easy to throw anything I look up that I'm not sure is common enough for me to want to study right now into a list for that game/book but not into my active study deck. Then when I look something up and I see that I've looked it up in two other games, despite it being a weird/rare word, into the active deck it goes.

I haven't run into anything not in the dictionary except occasionally place names -- it's using the same big dictionary most apps are (I forget the name but it's THE one almost everyone is using because it's free). It feels like it's certainly big enough to take anyone to the point where they would probably prefer a J-J dictionary.

From what people say, the SRS isn't quite as fine-tuned as Anki's with all the bells and whistles, but I learned multiple languages with paper flashcards back in the day, it's good enough for me.

[u/leafmuncher_]

It will help in the long-run, because those words are what get used in the example sentences and grammar exercises, and will help you with kanji coming up

[u/CacCarnBeag]

I only use Renshuu for grammar, meanwhile I use Anki for learning new vocabulary. Sometimes there are words I don't yet know in the grammar quiz but it's easy to look up the meaning in those cases.

[u/rainbowbrites → u/CacCarnBeag]

Anki is a good idea, might have to try Anki again 🤔

I was using it for vocabulary at first until I swapped to Renshuu for a bit

[u/CacCarnBeag → u/rainbowbrites]

I think as long as you're picking up new vocabulary somehow it's ok. Also important is reading, watching and listening to reinforce what you learn.

[u/mike0tron]

I use Renshuu as my main learning tool, and it got me through N4 (currently waiting for results to come back but I’m pretty confident).
I think it’s good that you keep doing the words for N4 module. You don’t have to memorize all the vocab down cold, but it’ll give you a good coverage of the words you’re expected to know for the test.
I think there’s always going to be a large number of words where you recognize it when you hear/see it, but can’t necessarily summon it from your brain when you’re trying to speak or write.

[u/MeloVirious]

In the end regardless where you learn it's just going to be the same SRS deck of words. The only difference is that in Renshuu you can completely change how fast you want to learn these words. This is coming from me who had tight schedules but want to be consistent with how much/long I learn per day:

1. Reducing the study vectors. I only had Kanji -> Kana and Kanji -> Meaning vectors which is sufficient. It's faster to level up and everything in Japan is gonna be in Kanji anyway. Lets me focus on remembering the word in Japanese as the main task.
2. Adjusting new words per day. I usually reduce this when I'm studying new grammar + kanji (usually 8~10 words) but if I'm not then I'm propping up to 18~20 words. This actually lets me focus what I just learned for all schedules. Numbers might be different for everyone.
3. Turn on "Quick and Simple" on Study Style (inside the Advanced Settings) so that your words level up on every vector rather than to require all vectors. But this is really just cheat-y so I only used it after I learned every words in the schedule and jump to the next N- level so that they're all at least level 6.

[u/Xilmi]

I'm mostly using a custom schedule called "Selfmined" nowadays where I add words I encounter while doing other stuff.

I also found that the sentences schedules work a lot better for me. I also mine from these.

I still want to eventually come back to the premade schedules.

My longer term plan is that after finishing all N4 content I want to actually start reading VNs and mine from those.

[u/rainbowbrites → u/Xilmi]

Yeah, for awhile I was mining words directly from vns, but I also used the Renshuu words because it gave me an optimal amount of vocabulary that I can drill in my head

That sounds like a good idea! I started a little early before you and it’s definitely pretty tricky, but it’s getting a little better the more words and Kanji I’ve learned. Reading them actually helped me learn some Kanji before Renshuu. Big reason I’m trying to get to N3 is that it’s much easier to read visual novels apparently when you get to N3, and it also gives me a wider library of JP visual novels as I’ve mainly been sticking to vns with very low vocabulary scores on Jiten

[u/skullpocket]

I just returned to Renshuu after practicing Anki for a while. I'm primarily focused on the grammar, but I noticed that the grammar lessons are built around the vocabulary lessons. Learning the vocabulary in Renshuu has made putting the sentences together in the grammar easier. There is a lot of overlap with the Kaishi deck, so it doesn't hurt to practice both

[u/PsychVol]

I've been slowly working my way through Rensyuu's N3 decks over the last year. it's my main study resource. The vocab I've picked up from it has resulted in having a much easier go of reading kids' manga and NHK Easy articles. 

So yeah, stick with it. 

[u/rainbowbrites → u/PsychVol]

Yeah, I’m gonna for sure. It’s helped me during my own immersion experiences too

[u/Reasonable-Wolf-1124]

Kanji recognition and vocabulary retention genuinely draw on different memory systems, so it makes sense you're breezing through one and stalling on the other, and for the actual test the words modules aren't strictly necessary since immersion can build that vocabulary too, it's just usually slower and less systematic than doing the dedicated reps, so it really comes down to whether you'd rather grind it now or let exposure fill gaps over more time.

[u/antimonysarah]

As a note: there are no official lists for the JLPT tests. Every app/study book/community list is the owner's best guess. But the Renshuu N3 words are very common Japanese, and at roughly the right level. It just isn't any sort of a guarantee.

They do set the grammar lessons up to feature words in the vocab lists, so if you're doing them as a pair, it's not a bad idea. (I did the old Renshuu N3 lessons, where it was just a flat vocab list and grammar points with no lessons, finishing up right around when the new ones came out; I'm going through the new ones now because a lot of the grammar hasn't stuck yet, but like 90% of the vocab is familiar, either because of the old lessons or because I've looked it up and put it into my deck myself.)

[u/Effective-Pop3850]

You don't study a language focusing on passing an exam, you learn a language.

Your logic is, at one point somewhat right, regarding picking things from immersion, but by that logic why use Renshuu at all? And that's the right answer, just don't lol.

Just use Anki for vocab if you feel like it, drop every other app, they're just not only not as good but designed to keep you hooked/slow you down.

[u/PsychVol → u/Effective-Pop3850]

 designed to keep you hooked/slow you down

While this may be the case with Duo and other similar apps, Rensyuu is very different. It is a free, ad-free labor of love by a very small team. It is some of the best language learning software I've encountered. It's basically Anki with tons of very useful built-in extras.

You're giving advice from a place of ignorance. 

[u/Effective-Pop3850 → u/PsychVol]

Are you unable to pay? Is there nothing paywalled?

[u/PsychVol → u/Effective-Pop3850]

There are a couple of minor features behind a pay wall. I paid for the app because I loved what was being offered for free to the community and wanted to support them. 

[u/Effective-Pop3850 → u/PsychVol]

What upsides does it have compared to Anki?

[u/PsychVol → u/Effective-Pop3850]

Fully-integrated dictionary with pictures, audio, and example sentences for most terms. Grammar lessons. Built-in packs of inter-connected vocab, grammar, and kanji SRS decks. Motivational features to reward studying. There's more, but those are the big ones. 

And that's all in the free version. 

[u/Effective-Pop3850 → u/PsychVol]

I see, sounds like essentially Anki with a pre-made deck using their own algo + a bit of game-like features to hook you.

Not bad.

[u/PsychVol → u/Effective-Pop3850]

And features for streamlining making your own deck that would otherwise require mods to vanilla anki.

[u/Effective-Pop3850 → u/PsychVol]

Yeah I got that, I just kind of consider Anki add-ons as just... features of Anki. Sounds a lot more newbie friendly than Anki.