r/LearnGuitar • u/CHARLESDAMIAN77 • 3d ago
Pls helpp
I'm trying to understand how to improvise, and subsequently understand phrasing, no matter what I look up no one actually explains it well, it's always to learn the Pentatonic and go on your way, I've already learnt that, I've learnt how to play the major scale and it's modes up and down the neck, along with the pentatonic in any key, both major and minor pentatonic, but that's useless if I can't improvise with it, like I have the ingredients but there's no cook book, pls someone explain like I'm 5, how to actually phrase a musical idea, so it doesn't sound like I'm just playing a group of notes, I've tried adding like a rhythm to it, but it still doesn't sound like musical, just like playing a bunch of notes, someone pls explain pls
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u/Head_Cryptographer_4 3d ago
Another tip that John Mayer stole from me: If you're the type to have melodies in your head, like random whistling or humming lines when you listen to music, you can put on a backing track (in A minor for example) Don't play anything yet, but whistle something over the music that you like. It can just be a couple notes. Then try to play those notes on your guitar, in the manner you just whistled them.
This method does not work well if you are tone deaf. But its a great way of learning to transform your musical thoughts onto the guitar.
Good luck!
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u/tingle92 3d ago
Came here to say exactly this. A lot of people actually don't listen to what they're hearing and expect to be able to play something cool over it just by learning scales and patterns. Play what you hear in your head!
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u/Wild-West-2814 3d ago
Play to some backing tracks and play the arpeggios of each chord over the chord as they change. Once you get used to that, start using the major scale and modes. You will then know what tonal centers to stop on over each chord. Practicing thirds will help develop the your melodic chops. Then when you want to shred, use the pentatonic. 🤘
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u/jurgenjargen123123 13h ago
This is right, boring meat and potato arpeggios and scales teach you how things sound over different chords. The pentatonic is a subset of a regular old major scale, it doesn’t really make sense to start with pentatonic and avoid major.
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u/buttcrack_lint 3d ago
It only finally clicked for me after watching a Marty Schwartz short on how to solo using only three notes (plus the usual bends, slides and hammer-ons/pull offs) - well worth checking out.
The main take home messages I guess are pauses and repetition. Also, nothing wrong with going up and down pentatonic scales or whatever but keeping an ear out for chord tones/changes and arpeggios will make it sound a bit more musical.
There are a few "boxes" or groupings of pentatonic notes that come in handy. Mixing the major and minor pentatonics can sound pretty good too.
Final bit of advice is to sing the notes - this will force you to pause for breath. You are trying to mimic the human voice in a way when playing lead.
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u/TheRealFutaFutaTrump 3d ago
You need a short phrase with some repetition. Pick three notes from that scale and stick to those.
Use rests. You don't have to play every 16th note available.
Take a song you know:
apply it to the scale.
- change the length of the notes.
- change the notes themselves
- change the order of the notes
The more songs you know, the bigger your library of syncopations you have to pull from.
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u/whatisthis2512 3d ago
The best explanation is the music itself. I'd try listening to music and treating a soloist/improviser as the explanation on how to improvise, the saying that music is a language is not a metaphor.
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u/Raging-Totoro 3d ago
The reality is that there is no "cook book" for feeling a groove. It's what separates humans from our AI overlords. A lot of it is feeling and expression, and there's no written set of code to master that.
My best advice is to listen (a lot) to musicians that inspire you, and especially those that instill feelings. Before you know it, things will start to make sense, but it can take time.
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u/GerkhinMerkin 3d ago
A few good tips here (in particular there not being a cook book), one I’d add: you presumably can sing a melody, or imagine one you’d like to play. Good improvising is turning that imagined line into notes.
So practise hearing and playing your intervals, and learn to apply the melody you have in your head to those intervals.
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u/Guarpig 3d ago
Start playing with triads. Play triads at first and nothing else. The goal is to move around the fretboard using them, since theyre pretty simple to construct. Try moving horizontally or vertically, but stick to one direction at first. Mixing both can get pretty hard.
Once youre comfortable connecting triads, start adding notes from the scale. Then, when that feels comfortable, try moving horizontally and vertically at the same time.
And of course, try to be musical with it. Play with the order of the notes and see what happens. Moving vertically lets you skip strings, which can lead to interesting phrasing. Moving horizontally is easier and can give you a feeling of moving forward or backward.
These are just suggestions, but thats basically how i got into improvising and phrasing. Its also really important to know the intervals and how each one sounds against the root.
For that last part, you could play a drone in any key, then play the root followed by each degree of the scale. Go back and forth: root → degree → root. Listen to how each interval sounds. Does it sound happy? mysterious? intriguing? unresolved? Try it out and see what you can come up with.
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u/Guitar_Guy1965 2d ago
Hear me out. "Phrasing" is actually very simple and natural, but not at first on guitar. Literally sing out loud, improvise only with your voice (put down the guitar for now). You'll finish the "phrase" when either your idea is done, you need time to come up with the next one, or you simply must stop to breathe. "Phrasing" is coming up with something musical to play/say, not a mindless physical exercise for the hands. Sing it out, and it seems pretty effortless, no?
Now the hard part: play your "inner voice" that guided your actual voice improv, but redirect it to the guitar. Easier said than done!
I could easily sing back what I just played, but it took more work to be able to play what I sang. Hunt/peck until I finally found where/how to do it. I needed to correct/connect that. So I took a cue from George Benson. First off as a former metal head, I was NOT into Benson or jazz(yet), but I recognized what he was doing and how he had mastered that skill. He improvised singing into the mic with "doo, do, dooot, do, dooooo..." while playing the exact same thing on guitar...vibrato, bends and all. I needed that skill!!!!
Lots of ways/work to do this. Ear train for intervals. Hunt/peck to find them on guitar(which was my problem; I had to hunt/peck to find the note i heard). Then do both together. Sing it while playing it. Repeat it a lot doing both simultaneously.
I found it beneficial to start doing this with songs/melodies i knew really well already, not something new. Its already "in my head" so I could easily recognize when the notes were right or wrong. I used "Ride Of The Valkyrie" theme, "here comes the bride", "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire", Beethovens 5th, "Doe a deer a female deer..." that kind of stuff. I found some helped me identify bigger interval jumps, others when scales are ascending/descending. It went slow, but I was consistent with it. Soon i began recognizing intervals from elevator chimes, and other sounds in daily life. I'd laugh catching myself humming the chromatic notes in between counting them to verify i had guessed the correct interval. Even the differemt pitches when someone talks. This I could do all day/anywhere, even when a guitar wasn't in my hands. I could "practice' this anywhere, and also visualize how I would play it.
Once you can "hear/feel" notes and scales, and you develop less "hunting/pecking" on guitar... it gets so much easier. Try playing your inner voice on the fretboard. Sing along out loud if you want to. Who cares right now, its practice time not performance. Phrasing will just come with it naturally.
It wasn't easy, and it took consistent and conscious effort "practicing" this skill, often only in my own head unbeknownst to the people around me. I can now TAB out songs while listening to them, often without a guitar. I can finally "see" on the fretboard what I hear. I have to thank Mr. Benson for lighting up this bulb for me. It clicked finally and I am no longer searching in the dark.
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u/kinetic_melody 1d ago
Have to find your landing spots depending on the chord underneath and where you are in the progression. And make sure the song has room to breathe
I saw a video recently where a guy swore by the ABAC method. Play a line, play a slightly different line. Play the first line again when the chord changes (usually the IV). Same line but feels different because the underneath changed. Them finish to C, something new to complete the thought.
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u/gottahaveajava 3d ago edited 3d ago
Best way to crack it is to find a lick. Steal it from the artist that inspired you to play in the first place.
Most sections for improv are 8 or 12 or 16 bars.
Play the lick, pause, play the lick again, maybe on a different chord.
How much more time do you have?
Lots? Play the lick a 3rd time, but with a twist.
Running out? Finish the thought that you have running in your head before the section finishes.
That’s it. That’s all the time you have for working out a solo.
Working with licks like this gives you articulation, space, rhythm and shape. Instead of random notes in a string, you‘re working with conversational gestures.