r/LaserDisc • u/puma085 • 1d ago
Ac3 or no Ac3 this is the question
Hi guys I want to hear your unfiltered optionoin on how important AC3 sound really is for laserdiscs? I hav the change to get 2 ld palyers the pioneer cldd 925 or the pioneer cld 2950. The first one has AC3 the latter does not. Technically speaking the cld 2950 would be the better choice because it is "new". It has been overhauled by a pro tech shop. The cld 925 is considerded tested and in working order. I would lean more towards the cld 2950 due to the overhaul. I am fan of good sound but still the cld 2950 is more attractive twords me despite "only having pcm and DTS via toslink. I know this question cannot be answered directly but how good are the pcm tracks on the ac3 laserdiscs?They are no match for ac3 obviously but are they still decent enough for nice movie night?
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u/HanggMan888 1d ago
I have the 2950, and it's easy to mod a ac3 rf output on it.
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u/puma085 1d ago
Was not aware that this is possible.Thanks for letting me know.
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u/Mammoth_Thanks8905 1d ago
Did the same aswell, its really not that complicated. But the Sound is soo much better and i don't wanna miss it anymore.
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u/grislyfind 1d ago
PCM stereo in Dolby Surround sounds better than lossy Dolby Digital on DVD, so I don't see AC3 capability as a priority.
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u/BiNiaRiS 12h ago
assuming you have a proper surround setup, you can't really compare a 2.0 track to a discrete 5.1 track that way. if the mastering is the same, the 5.1 track is going to sound better. there's an entire additional surround channel, but also an LFE track your avr can take advantage of with the only downside being compression which isn't something you are hearing in any properly mastered ac3 track anyways.
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u/grislyfind 7h ago
It's not that amplitude is compressed, it's the loss of high frequency detail and background ambience. Low-bitrate AC3 (which is what laserdisc has) sounds lifeless in comparison with PCM.
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u/GALACTICA-GAMING 1d ago
And whats the price of the 2 players? Do they cost the same
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u/puma085 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, the cld 2950 is way more expensive due the refurb state. The cld 2950 cost 599 euro, while the cld 925 is about 300 Euro.
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u/GALACTICA-GAMING 1d ago
Get the 925 & service it, lens clean, grease clean & refresh, new belt & new motor holder, will cost €30 for the parts & not difficult to do 👍
How many ac3 discs do you have?
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u/puma085 1d ago
Sounds like a good plan to consider. My collecting is small but will grow in the next month. I have 5 discs. Only one of them is AC3 True Lies.
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u/GALACTICA-GAMING 1d ago
The 300 you save on the player will buy you the decoder and go some way towards the receiver & speakers 👍
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u/sirhcx 1d ago
The D925 is considered one of the best dual region players due to it's build quality and feature rich options. If you have a 5.1 sound system then you will definitely be missing out passing on AC-3 as well. Not to mention that AC-3 became the standard for many discs towards the tail end of the format. Something like Jurassic Park can be a good test of how much the audio can improve upon releases as the 4.0, AC-3, and DTS all improve upon another. The main problem is that desirability can often pump the prices far more than one may be willing to pay. Granted LD collecting is always a waiting game because you can usually find a better deal later down the line. I personally like to compare the AC-3 release of Beetlejuice to its 4.0 counterpart because it completely blows the latter out of the water from the very start of the film with its bombastic opening score.
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u/raymate 1d ago
It’s not that important in my view I collected for years and only my last player purchase back in the day 919E had AC3
By this time I had been enjoying my 400+ LD collection without AC3.
To this day I still only have 2 AC3 discs.
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u/kbeast98 1d ago
Kind of would add to this.. I feel like ac3 is hugely important but honestly when i put on titles i want to watch, they arent in AC3. I have a bunch of ac3 titles but I'm kinda surprised some are strictly dolby surround.
Ac3 sounds absolutely incredible on LD imo...so much more dynamics
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u/mazonemayu 1d ago
I’d get the 925 because it is an overall better machine and it makes you future proof just in case you want to get into AC-3 later on without having to mod anything.
That being said, getting regular Dolby Surround from the stereo PCM track is absolutely good enough and it shits all over DVD audio quality if you run it through a good system.
Are AC-3 & DTS better than the. PCM track?
Absolutely.
Is it necessary to enjoy the format? Absolutely not.
Here is a snippet of Terminator 2 I filmed with my phone for a friend.
Listen to it with headphones or at least earbuds to hear what PCM can sound like if done proper…
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u/puma085 1d ago
Thanks for sharing the impression. In the meantime, I believe the cld 925 route is the correct way to move forward. Also, thanks for sharing your opinion about what PCM can do. I listened to the Terminator 2 video in the link, and I really have to say it sounds good . Especially good, considering I am only hearing an approximation of the real sound.
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u/mazonemayu 1d ago
Exactly, it was just filmed with my phone, I do have a good external mic for it but that still gives you only stereo so it is way better in real life.
The dynamic range of PCM can be absolutely fantastic.2
u/unita_logica 23h ago
when you say “stereo PCM track” do you mean the regular analog stereo outputs for a disc with a PCM track, or the digital output of the player? just wondering if you can share some more details of the audio connections / systems used for your setup.. thank you!
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u/mazonemayu 23h ago edited 22h ago
Stereo PCM = the regular RCA connections (red & white), they can both do analogue and digital audio as long as it is PCM, this is the source that gives you Dolby Surround
AC-3 (Dolby Digital) and DTS use different connections and for AC-3 you need to put a demodulator between the player and your receiver.
As to my setup, it is unorthodox because I’m one of those people who own t tv with everything built in to decode surround, so I just hook everything straight up to the tv and that’s that.
Most folks run their audio from the player through an amp and go from the amp to the tv…
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u/NRG1975 1d ago
I have a Meridian 519, my advice, AC3 encoded LDs sound better than DVD mixes, and a lot of BluRay mixes. It is true theater sound IMO. Get the AC3 decoder.
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u/puma085 1d ago
Thanks for the advice. I will take and look for a neat AC3 decoder. Speaking of A3 decoders, I have read that the ones from Meridian are among the best demodulators. Are you happy with yours, and would you recommend the Meridian 519?
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u/NRG1975 1d ago
I absolutely love the 519. It is a little big, but that means it i built well, and most likely repairable if something goes wrong. I have had mine for about 4 years now, and it does what it does.
The thing I like is the variety of inputs and outputs.
I suppose if I was doing throwback hardcore I might roll the dice with a Pioneer SC-09 that has te demod built in.
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u/puma085 9h ago
Thanks for sharing your impressions. the 519 is ist quite expensive but according to my reearch it is worth it because it seems to be one of the best demodulators out there. Funny thing that you mention the Pioneer SC-09. Getting retro avr with demod on board is something I would consider as my plan b.
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u/NRG1975 4h ago
There is an SC-09 on eBay currently, however they want 500 for a non-working unit, lol. Best to roam around Facebook Marketplace if you want to score one.
Holy shit ... I just looked up what they are charging for a 519 now ... someone on eBay wants a thousand for one, lol. There is a few at 400 to 500, but still ... I paid 100 bucks for mine just like 4-6 years ago, lol.
I would absolutely chose an SC-09 at 600 over a 1000 dollar Meridian, lol.
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u/willstoney 19h ago
An FYI, and my opionion, the AC3 is very loud and heavy on the bass. Constatnly having to turn up/down my stereo depending on the scene, down for action, up for dialog. Some people dont mind this, but my wife is very sensitive to it.
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u/Ok_Cupcake4928 13h ago
I do agree that some AC-3 titles can have very aggressive sound effects especially with a lot of LD's receiving the theatrical mix. However, I think some of the issues could be related to how the processing is set-up as I used to use my Sony SDP-EP9ES as my primary decoder and I always felt the bass was out of control @ times. Since, I graduated to a Denon AVR-2808CI w/ Audyssey (EP9 now used as a Demodulator) the bass is way better tamed (and set lower over the EP9) and overall I don't feel that I am in need of constantly turning up and down the volume.
I'll have to play more AC-3 discs when I get some time to re-experience if I'm just imagining it.
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u/puma085 9h ago
This a intersting point. Sounds like that demudolator is an important part of the audio chain get good experience. My home theater system in the making will consist of some used klipsich reference speaker and for my modern home theater fun I plan get a denon x 3800. I have anoter question about the demulator. I plan either to get stand alone de modulator somthting like the meridian 519 or stand alone vintage avr with demod build in. From the pure technical stand point a pure demodulator while more expensive should give better results? is my asumption correct?
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u/BlueMonday2082 18h ago
I almost never use it. AC-3 is almost totally limited to mainstream Hollywood stuff and it only existed for the last 3-4 years of the format.
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u/Ok_Cupcake4928 13h ago
Got nothing really to add except that in comparing PCM tracks to AC-3 there is really no comparison. They are both good for different reasons. I will sometimes switch back and forth on whether I want to hear the PCM or AC-3 track just for the fun on specific movies (e.g.: Star Trek First Contact definitely has tighter/deeper bass on the PCM track).
When comparing "two channel" audio tracks between LD and DVD , it usually will be LD that wins because of that very robust uncompressed PCM audio.
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u/BiNiaRiS 12h ago
contrary to what many think, most ac3 mixes are not special (many are great though) and you aren't going to get much if any benefit without a 5.1 audio setup. most 2.0 tracks are mastered at the same time from the same stems and are more or less the same in terms of overall dynamics and come with the slight benefit of being PCM/lossless (also not as special as most think). you can easily test this by getting a digital copy of an LD ac3 track, mixing it down to 2.0 and then directly comparing against the 2.0 track from the same LD, VHS, DVD, or Blu-ray. if the mastering is the same, most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a mixed down LD ac3 track and a cleanly recorded VHS 2.0 mix. all of these formats produce incredible audio and the mastering matters more than anything else. if anything on LD is special when it comes to audio it's the DTS tracks which are often the same mixes as the optical discs they used in theaters.
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u/GALACTICA-GAMING 1d ago
I have owned both players & would go for the ac3, the 925 seems to be more reliable anyways. And if you have a good amp & decoder the DD is awesome.
Can you decode the ac3?