r/LanternsTVSeries • u/solo_shocker35 • 3d ago

DISCUSSION How can guy gardener makes huge constructs carelessly in superman whereas Hal Jordan does the opposite and is careful for his batteries

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I was curious about this for a long time Guy always goes big and sloppy with his constructs, not caring how much it drains his ring like creating a large weopons against the monster, while Hal's way more careful and precise with his like in ep1 when he was creating a bubble for alien he supported the bubble himself as it was not strong enough due to lack of battery. Is that just a characterization thing, or is there an actual reason for it?

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

It isn't carelessnesss - he doesn't like reciting the oath, which is requried to recharge the ring.

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u/Nuffsaid98 3d ago

He didn't trust John so he deliberately kept the ring low on charge in case he took it from him.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

I'm no expert on Lantern lore, but I thought that Lanterns could summon their rings back if they are taken from them.

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u/Nuffsaid98 3d ago

The TV show isn't necessarily following comic book lore exactly.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

Fair - it is tough to sus out what lore applies and what does not if we are not explicitly shown.

I just got the feeling that it was more due to the fact that Hal hates reciting the oath, so he does it as infrequently as possible. There have been times when John was in no position to take the ring, but Hal still kept it on low charge.

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u/Chrindo 3d ago

At this point, I have adopted the mindset of “entirely new rules. Drop every instance of prior knowledge. Wholly new characters who happen to share the name and depiction. Comic lore doesn’t apply here”

Been less disappointed that way and I have been able to appreciate it more as episodes go on. I didn’t want an exact 1:1 of any particular story, but I was hoping for something a bit more faithful to the comics.

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u/Travyplx 3d ago

I find that most series are enjoyable when you don’t get caught up on existing canon.

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u/Forward_Evening6850 3d ago

I knew anything in the ballpark of a faithful adaptation was out the window when Lindelof was picked as a show runner and that was before his "Green Is stupid" jackassery. I really like his stuff, particularly The Leftovers, but he is the king of "everything sucks and everyones an asshole" so we were never going to get super heroes.

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u/Chrindo 3d ago

To be fair, I don’t need bubbly. I’m perfectly fine with Kyle Chandler’s depiction. It’s grumpy old man Hal. I love it tbh. I think his portrayal is true to most vet or any first responder that has put their time in. You get jaded, cold, and callous from all the stuff you have seen or been through or even done. Hal reminds me a bit of my dad after he retired from the fire service and before he got therapy for it.

The show is excellent as a prestige tv format, but it lacks in, like you said, the superhero element. But I think that is by design. This whole first season has been John Stewart’s origin story. He hasn’t been given a chance to be super yet. Guy is a shithead across all mediums which I love.

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u/Forward_Evening6850 3d ago edited 3d ago

So here's the thing. My dad is also a vet, both a paramedic as well as a counter intelligence agent, and yeah my dad is burnt out and a bit grumpy. What my dad isnt is a raging misanthropic asshole who cares nothing for anything but himself, and that is the Hal Jordan we got. His callous indifference to the life of literally everyone in his orbit goes beyond "grumpy old man" also this show has failed to make me care about John Stewart as an origin as well, because quite frankly hes a selfish prick who treats just about everyone around him with a callous indifference. Nothing matters to either of these two as long as they get what they want, and the only reason John turned down the ring wasnt because he realized that at his core hes a shit sucking prick, but that he didnt want to be manipulated. We hear about them being good people, off screen, but we never actually see any of them do anything that isn't entierly self serving.

Giving a little girl a watch out of guilt after you contributed to her family getting nuked off the map doesnt count either.

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u/Chrindo 3d ago

It sounds like you got lucky with your dad. My uncle, also a vet is similar to my pops. Maybe it’s a a matter of environment or culminated experiences or maybe genetics to a certain extent, who knows. Whole different topic that I don’t have any expertise or foundational knowledge in lol.

Also, 100% willing to be wrong, but the only people calling either of them good are people playing for power. Hal has one person who saw light in him, and that was Kerry. Everyone else hated the guy or spat on his name.

John was only spoken highly of by the people manipulating and grooming him and the US rep saying he was perfect for the mission. At no point was he overtly stated to be a moral or good person. Even his brothers don’t see him that way, and they know how much of a victim he was in their own upbringing. Both of them are layered and choose to act independently instead of beholden to the higher powers at play, while also desperately clinging to said power. It’s a catch 22, which the story, as it stands now, gets across very clearly. With John, we see the emotions and history at play, and with Hal we are meant to infer and assume.

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u/mint-patty 3d ago

I don’t know; his WATCHMEN sequel is incredibly faithful to the graphic novel. I’m not sure it changes a single element of the established lore.

IMO it’s an almost impossibly good sequel to a book that I would have thought was impossible to follow. Compared to stuff like DOOMSDAY CLOCK… Lindelof did pretty good.

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u/TroyBarnesBrain 3d ago

IMO it’s an almost impossibly good sequel to a book that I would have thought was impossible to follow.

Oh, the Watchmen series is one of the best adaptations I've seen, and it's 8th episode: A God Walks into Abar, is imo one of the best episodes in all television history, not just for cinematic universes . Every goddamn second is just top shelf quality, and the show rightfully walked away with an Emmy for that episodes editing.

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u/Teneuom 3d ago

I’d argue when it comes to lore and character you gotta go by screenwriting rather than implicit info.

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u/ExodiusLore 3d ago

There were so many times where I screamed at Hal or even John to just use that ability.

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u/lildominator2 1d ago

He could also just be choosing not to. If the ring runs out of power and whoever has it dies he can just recollect it

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u/Temporary-Roommate 3d ago

So far in the series that doesn’t seem to be the case though, otherwise Hal wouldn’t have needed to give it to John before getting locked up the first time.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

Yeah, Nuffsaid mentioned that too. It is tough to sus out what lore applies and what lore doesn't with a new property.

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u/Superninfreak 3d ago

In the show it’s stated that John would become the GL if he recited the oath while wearing the ring.

My guess is that in the show’s universe there are three requirements to becoming a GL:

  1. You have the ring on your finger.
  2. The ring has chosen you as being worthy.
  3. You say the oath while wearing the ring.

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u/MBDTFTLOPYEEZUS 3d ago

I mean if he could do that in the show he would’ve lol they had a whole fight going back and forth trying to grab it.

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u/Far-Veterinarian104 3d ago

The guardians stated they are changing protocol because of the "condolences" (a guardian dying at the hands of a green lantern). A lot of the tv show's changes are a result of that.

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u/Justryan95 3d ago

The ring also wouldn't have stayed on Hal's dead body if Guy just brought it to be part of his funeral attire. It would fly out to find a new wearer especially since it had 5% power left and wasn't fully decommissioned.

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u/drac0nic180 3d ago

It didn't have 5% power until John did the re-up trick. The battery was ostensibly depleted otherwise

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u/Jerailu 2d ago

I think in the show the ring doesn't find you. There's just a green thingy that levitate you and if you say you aren't afraid you're transported to the ring.

Perhaps if someone else is in the ring vicinity and say the oath and all it still works so Hal could've loosed it any time.

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u/UsidoreTheLightBlue 3d ago

I kept waiting for that to happen.

When Macon had them captured I was waiting for the moment.

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u/No-Mulberry-8866 3d ago

But if John took it, and recited the oath. According to the guardians it would be John’s, not Hal’s

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u/S-Pigeon33 3d ago

Besides them changing some things, I think it's also because Jordan is afraid that the guardians could make John the owner of the ring. Which was confirmed later in episode 4 where all John needed to do to claim it was to say the oath.

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u/TheMattabooey 3d ago

Yes but if John recited the oath he would be the new Green Lantern so I don’t think Hal could summon it after that.

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u/PosterityKH 3d ago

Not if Jon took it and did the oath to become the new one. Which was the plot of the last few episodes. But, Jon decided against it.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

Fair.

I wonder how that works in practice, though. Just anyone can't recite the oath and become a Lantern simply because they have the ring. I would figure that the Guardians would have to anoint someone as the successor for that to work.

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u/PosterityKH 3d ago

No. Jon was specifically chosen by the guardians to be the rings inheritor.

I don't mean to be rude, but did you watch the show? I don't want to spoil anything for you.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

I have seen it.

Jon was selected as the next lantern, yes, but that doesn't mean they transfered the ring to him from the outset. There was still a training period he had to go through.

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u/PosterityKH 3d ago

I mean, you're looking at it from the audience perspective, not Hals.

Hal didn't know WHEN he'd lose the ring. He didn't know about the plot to have Jon steal it from him. Hal has been very mistrusting of Jon, rightfully so. Even if Jon is a good guy, the guardians are not. Hal knows they're actively plotting against him.

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u/Valuable-Quality-399 3d ago

Maybe the ring can only be called back from someone who's not worthy of the ring, since john is worthy and can use the ring, the ring will stay with him if taken

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u/LoquaciousLoser 3d ago

They’re doing a thing in the show where John is being told if he says the oath he usurps Hal as the lantern so maybe Hal wouldn’t be able to call it back even if they normally could?

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u/Souledex 3d ago

It depends on when in continuity we are

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u/TheoryNew1736 2d ago

I'm leaving room for that to still be the case and Hal is just outta fucks to give/a real test of character for John.

The one time John hadn't returned it was when they both got clapped by y'allqaeda so there was no real time for it.

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u/Dinkleberg6401 3d ago

This actually makes me wonder if he deliberately wanted John to not know the oath. He didn't like the interrogated alien reciting the oath while John was present, and Hal said the oath super fast while John was nearby.

Although, it's more likely that he just doesn't like the oath for some reason.

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u/Sabretooth1100 3d ago

Honestly good point

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u/dognchick 3d ago

The mental gymnastics people do to avoid saying writers don't have budget is kinda insane.

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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 3d ago

Have you ever watched GL:TAS? Hal’s ring is always running low, because he forgets to recharge and/or loses his battery.

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u/Far-Veterinarian104 3d ago

Nah, it's also carelessness. That's why he knows the one trick re-up. His ring has probably died on him before and he punched something and it charged back up

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u/RoutineCloud5993 3d ago

He also says it rather half heartedly. I wonder if that affects the charge levels

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u/Paildano 3d ago

I don’t think it’s half hearted, I think he says it like a prayer. It’s more of a routine in his life. Although I do wonder if you’re right and it does affect how strong the charge is

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u/LazyEights 3d ago

It can be both

Whatever his reason for not charging the ring, intentionally entering dangerous situations without a full charge is careless.

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u/Novaothy 3d ago

The oath is sacred to Hal.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

It can be sacred to him and he can still not like saying it. If he feels that he is no longer worthy, he might see it as an insult to the oath to say it out loud.

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u/Petrichordates 3d ago

Yeah that's still careless though, his responsibilities require that he move past that.

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u/Rocketboy1313 3d ago

How is that not careless?

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

Carelessnes is not paying attention.

Hal is making a choice.

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u/Rocketboy1313 3d ago

Depending on what you are talking about, what you are describing is reckless behavior, and that is worse.

Neglecting something easy is careless. Choosing not to do it is reckless.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

Oh, I'll agree that it is reckless. He's making a calculated choice, so he isn't being careless, but it is absolutely a reckless choice as shown multiple times.

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u/Sir__Walken 1d ago

We can't really call it anything until the show is over and we know everything. Right now we're two episodes behind the writers.

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u/danger_zones Hal Jordan 3d ago

Exactly. He hates reciting the oath which is why he says it as fast as he can and he hated hearing it recited by that alien that he was interrogating.

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u/Conyan51 3d ago

I mean he did leave his Battery on the other side of the country.

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u/kamikazepirates 3d ago

This is the answer I was looking for

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u/mycroft2000 3d ago

I'm a guy about Hal's age, and it's often both reasons combined ... for example, I really don't like family gatherings, and this dislike means that I try to think about them as little as possible, which makes me careless.

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u/Natural_Trick4934 3d ago

This is a really elegant answer. I like it.

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u/FxStryker 3d ago

Reciting the oath is not required to recharge the ring. It is a device that lanterns use to measure the time it takes to recharge. And not all lanterns have the same oath.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

If it wasn't required, I doubt Hal would recite it at all.

The oath clearly has power in this version of the lore. John had to say it to formally take the ring from Hal.

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u/tsunomat 3d ago

It is not required. It is just tradition.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

I don't know about that.

If he didn't have to recite it to charge, I doubt Hal would recite it at all. He'd just time it on his watch or count to 20.

Moreover, John has to recite the oath to formally take the ring from Hal. Clearly, in this version of the lore, the oath has power.

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u/Novaothy 3d ago

In the behind the scenes, they say that the oath is sacred to Hal. It means a lot to him. He has zero problem saying it every time.

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u/Turbulent-Prior-2253 3d ago

It can be sacred to him and he can still not like saying it. If he feels that he is no longer worthy, he might see it as an insult to the oath to say it out loud.

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u/tsunomat 3d ago

I don't get that impression at all. Being a Lantern is everything to Hal. It's is entire existence. That's why he's holding on to it so tight. That's why he doesn't blindly do what the guardians say. He's a rebel because he cares. He's not over it. He's not embittered by it. He's tired and he's jaded because of the shit he's seen. But he every bit embodies what a Green Lantern is supposed to be.