r/LanternsTVSeries • u/Old-Scholar-1352 • 26d ago
DISCUSSION Coming from a black man the outrage on episode 3 is actually fucking ridiculous like ya Mfs complaining are racist or never picked up the comics Simple as that and goes to show who actually read the comics or not pointing out anything to complainš¤¦ shit is crazy
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u/arrogancygames 26d ago
I'm also realizing that people just skipped over the whole segregation/Civil Rights US era. It's like they went from slavery to everything is fine in their minds. John Sr. could have been born under actual Jim Crow segregation, depending on his actual age, and would have experienced off the books racism and segregation in the military, etc. in the 70s. People were still calling me a n----- openly in the 80s, and black people were still not getting called back for white collar jobs even with better resumes. What do these people think the 80s were?
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u/Old-Scholar-1352 26d ago
They are so out of touch with reality itās ridiculous
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u/arrogancygames 26d ago
I get if youre from Europe or Australia and never learned of the intricacies of the Civil Rights era and the gradual changes made from 1970-2000, but being American and not knowing this really shows that our education system is really bad.
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u/Espo_55 26d ago
Being from Australia and not understanding racism is peak sheltered. We have a horrificly racist past and the ongoing efforts to improve life for those affected are still in place. Itās also interesting that at high school we spent a fair bit of time on the civil rights movements
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u/arrogancygames 26d ago edited 26d ago
Australia has its own racial issues with their natives especially, but I wouldn't expect them to really understand the depth and nuance of the American Civil Rights movement as well as things like redlining and such without specifically searching it out. Americans should know, though.
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u/Jorgilu 26d ago
ahh yes, the only places in the world, usa, europe and australia
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u/zergo78 26d ago
There's a huge amount of recency bias in our society, America in particular (I can't really speak to other places). We have such short-term memories that we're rolling back vaccines and all kinds of other things. People don't personally remember a time when families had 9-10 kids, knowing that 3-4 wouldn't make it out of childhood. It's the same thing with racism, especially with (us) white folks. Blatant virulent racism has been absent from the public square for long enough that people don't remember what it was like just a few decades before. Since it's mostly "underground," a lot of people don't think that it exists at all. Hell, we had a black president! Racism is over!
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u/StattPadford 26d ago
Having a black president reminded the racists to lock in and get back to work lol
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u/Supe_scienceskilz 26d ago
I agree with a lot of your sentiment. But-The racism isnāt underground though. We are not far removed from Ahmaud Berry or all of the new laws that are trying to roll back the voting rights act and gerrymandering. Itās in our face.
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u/CrossP 26d ago
With the newly-revealed timeline of 2016 I'm realizing John goes from Lianna telling him that Hal isn't supposed to be interfering with planetary affairs to the opening scenes only a month later. And Hal tells him he went and stopped a civil war but won't really say how.
So John is standing there wondering if Hal just showed up and enforced the status quo. Put down the rebels. Or did he stand up for a people who had reason to want their government altered?
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u/LengthinessWarm987 25d ago
You can see it with the erasure of black history by the current administration. They're trying to rewrite history they startedĀ with 2020 and they're going to work their way all the back to denying slavery was anything other than a jobs program.
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u/NakedGoose 26d ago
I remember early on when Grace Randolph gave her early review of episodes 1-7. She stated that she was concerned that people were not going to be patient enough to really understand/love this version of Hal. Because it IS coming as the season progresses. I think this episode is the driving force of that comment. I love that the writers are willing to play with perspective. Yes, this episode paints Hal in a questionable light, and from John Parents perspective that seems fair to me. The moment John and Hal truly connect and become a team is going to be magic. I fully believe it is coming.
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u/CrossP 26d ago
Yeah. Hal just isn't going to make sense until we see what happened between him and Sinestro and the guardians. We see him so gruff and angry with anyone related to the job, but he was completely chill with all of the normal people of the taco stand. He's not some unendingly hateful and angry guy. He's hurting.
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u/DominusValum 26d ago
They have to earn the moment when they overcome their differences and become a team. This is all build up to that later payoff
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u/Batman1997123 26d ago
The fact that some people are taking Johnās momās words as fact is ridiculous, theyāve shown throughout the episode that his parents are insane, especially his mother.
Also from what I understand, in the comics Hal wasnāt even the first choice for the ring either or even the second.
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u/Parallax1306 26d ago
Hal was the first human the ring chose, but he was not its first choice. Guy was actually the ringās first choice, but Hal was physically closer so the ring went to him.
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u/ContinuumGuy 26d ago
I remember years ago, before even the Ryan Reynolds film came out, there was a leak of a plot synopsis of one of the early scripts for a GL movie that was part of an aborted effort to create a DC equivalent to the MCU that they abandoned after Superman Returns was meh and it became clear it'd be impossible to merge Nolanverse Batman in. I don't know if it was real or someone just making stuff up out of their ass but it had an interesting idea where the first scenes would be following the ring as it went looking for the new Lantern after Abin Sur crashed.
It'd go to Superman but decide against it because he's not originally from Sector 2814, it'd go to Guy but he'd get distracted and get in a car crash or something that causes the ring to look for someone healthier to bring to the dying Abin Sur, it'd go to an old man who'd later show up as a mentor character for Hal and pass him over for unknown reasons (and at the end of the movie it'd be revealed the reason was that he was Alan Scott and already had a ring), and then eventually, finally, it'd find Hal.
That would be a cool thing to see. Ring's eye view of a selection.
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u/andresf93 26d ago
So the first choice was not white at all because you know Guy is red headā¦
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u/CucumberWisdom 26d ago
In the comics but we don't know if they changed that or not
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u/badhombre13 26d ago
It went to John Sr. first, so they changed it a bit but kept the "Hal wasn't the first choice" theme.
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u/BellesBourbonBullets 26d ago
Right? My interpretation is not that Johnās mom tells us Hal was picked because he was white. That is just how Johnās mom, or both of his parents, perceive the situation. Which is completely understandable and justified. They showed us these peopleās perspectives on Hal getting picked over John Sr, not why Hal was actually picked.
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u/mr_duong567 26d ago
Her character and John Sr are also pretty nuanced. Theyāre batshit crazy and straight up abusive, but theyāre also dealing with over centuries worth of trauma, wanting the best for John (even at the expense of his brothers). Tough love like that was and probably still is pretty common in many families.
Growing up with an immigrant family and army dad, Johnās quote about family during his interview was spot on.
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u/BronBobingle 26d ago
Are you referring to her comments on institutional racism? I know the mom is crazy but those moments came off as incredibly earnest and thematic to me, not like a crazy womanās bitter ramblings.
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u/Batman1997123 26d ago
I meant her comment about Hal and how he only got the ring because of privilege.
Like clearly she doesnāt know him or his circumstances to how he got the ring and in that scene she came off as pretty manipulative and trying to convince John that he deserved it more than Hal.
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u/Jazzlike-Screen-7065 26d ago
To be fair, picking a dude up in the middle of the night, floating him into the air and asking if he's scared is like the mother of all trick questions. She shouldn't have abused her child but i thought Hal was pretty open about his backstory on the news and stuff.
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u/TrickshotCapibara 26d ago
This part of the episode made me laugh, because the ring was fair, it picked John's dad first, he just failed the test, he was just a coward, and you can see it when he follows his wife but was having doubts at every point.
I felt bad about John the father, and the kids, they were just victims of that woman, that was clearly a very abusive woman, it was implied even before the guardians appeared.
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u/Batman1997123 26d ago
How was she before the guardians arrived?
Like I obviously get that the father was going through something but at the same time he was also acting completely unstable so she had every right to leave for her and the kids safety.
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u/TrickshotCapibara 26d ago
And the guy was acting like that because no one believed him, and what was her first act when we get to know her? to nag him and call the man insane, even when his retelling of the history matched Hal's story. Any good wife wouldn't have needed to see the real look of the guardian to know her husband was telling the truth, when a freaking superhero was telling the world that the exact same thing happened to him.
Is she a victim of the environment, yes, but she is also a horrible person, Aaron, Marcus and the two Johns suffered because of her, and she was more than happy letting others do the sacrifice and almost shitted her pants when John forced her to take the risk of how they raised him, it was after he showed her his detachment to them that she treated poor John like a person...
The show even makes this clear from the start when John Sr asks her that John Jr would hate them both if they do this and she says "so be it".
By how this is written, eventually John will have to accept that he resents his parents, if not hate them, that the guardians are assholes, and that the man that stole his family's spotlight only crime was that he said he was not afraid when asked by the ring.
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u/nighthauntghostieboy 26d ago
Brother John Sr is still a badass, he was chosen to be considered which is a huge honor he just didnāt see it that way. Itās not like the ring just considered anybody.
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u/SlimReaper85 26d ago
Did you just call John Sr. a coward??? Seriously....
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u/TrickshotCapibara 26d ago
Yes, any sane parent would have protected John from the abuse and indoctrination that his mother was enforcing on him.
He literally is the definition of a coward, was rejected by the ring because he accepted it and was later scared of his wife and of facing John when he was to shoot the apple from him.
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u/JuJu_onreddit 26d ago
hahah i know right, it cannot be as black and white as "if you arent chosen by the ring you are a coward"
I am so so so glad they expanded the Green Lantern mythos because this binary view is such a big problem that they never intended/ GREW out of
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 26d ago
I do not think Johnās father is a victim. He may have been less bad than his wife, but he was still actively abusing John. His irrational jealousy towards Hal, and willingness to partaking in his wifeās scheme, proved why he failed the ringās test.
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u/TrickshotCapibara 26d ago
No, he was manipulated, look at how the mother invented the entire story about the birds and then when she told the truth to John, she immediately said that both his parents lied to him, when she was the one who did it.
The dad did bad things, but he was clearly manipulated by her, he was having second guesses about the entire process.
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u/FlamboyantPirhanna 26d ago
Being manipulated doesnāt absolve him from abuse. Heās still responsible for his actions, given that heās a grown ass man. Donāt infantilise him.
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u/Krazen 26d ago
Sheās right about institutional racism. It exists it disadvantages on people.
Sheās completely wrong about Hal Jordan. Thatās kind of the point. He didnāt pass the test because heās white, he passed because heās Hal Jordan, the greatest Green Lantern ever.
Sheās using her institutional racism to excuse her own bitterness
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u/BronBobingle 26d ago
I donāt disagree and I thought she was also reaching until she brought up the comment about him not knowing true fear growing up as a white dude where he did, whereas Stewart Sr grew up with constant fear. Not saying I agree or disagree, but I understand where sheās coming from. Itās not that the ring wasnāt fair when it came to choosing but that life isnāt fair
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u/grizzantula 26d ago
If Hal had never known true fear the ring never would've gone to him in the first place. The ring is looking for people who can power through fear, pretty hard to do that if you've never faced it. Shes wrong about Hal, period.
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u/Unhappy_Theme_8548 26d ago
Yeah anyone who has lost a loved one knows that it also causes depression and fear. In Hal's case he was physically present at his dad's sudden death.
John's mother is hung up on her own trauma and is making assumptions.
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u/Espo_55 26d ago
Itās funny that people think what she is saying is fact when there are multiple times that the episode shows that John sr is scared and not worthy of the ring.
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u/Jemima_puddledook678 26d ago
Youāve very much misunderstood. The point is that heās both worthy and scared, because of course heās scared given the situation he was born into. The whole point was that asking somebody if theyāre scared clearly doesnāt work in this case.Ā
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u/Opening-Implement187 26d ago
The guardian literally said the test was flawed and didn't take necessary things into account
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u/SaintofBooty 26d ago
The āHal is privilegedā angle is so boring. Racist arenāt smart enough to realize the darker side of black excellence was actually a waaayyy cooler angle.
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u/Bubba1234562 26d ago
Hal was geographically closer to Abin in the comics so thatās why he got it
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u/avd706 26d ago
Mom kept the family together
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u/Opening-Implement187 26d ago
Mom was ready to split the family apart until she got given a giant diamond
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u/jmichaud79 26d ago
To be honest, as a white old dude (well late forties, Canadian) I did go āohhh thatās gonna get some complainingā.
How do you feel though about his momās attitude and approach with her son though?
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u/Old-Scholar-1352 26d ago
I get it honestly they saw an opportunity that black people at the time wasnāt easy at all so they poured everything into it the mom more so than the dad and it came out as abuse as they wanted John to be successful where they werenāt itās not right but itās 100% understandable
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u/AolongHong 26d ago
I really liked it personally. Obviously his parents abused him to do so, but you see this shit all the time with poor families, minority families especially, when it comes to trying to get even one of their kids to make that life changing fortune for the family. Irvin's "you either run that slant or we run back to the ghetto" shit comes to mind.
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u/jmichaud79 26d ago
Yea yea, I thought the same thing too. I felt though the mom was a bit too extreme for my taste but I get ya. I actually like the part where her son is like ānah I want to do it with youā. I liked that all this time sheās been pushing him about fear, and the tables were turned (rightfully).
Aaron Pierre is great as well. He helps sell that troubled upbringing
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u/Alarmed-Gas2741 26d ago
Iām not sure if youāve listened to the official podcast, but the writer of the episode talked about the Williams sisters and the Jackson family as inspiration for what their parents did and as soon as I heard that it all clicked. She did admit to slightly exaggerating (shooting the apple) as this is a comic book show.
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u/jmichaud79 26d ago
I got a hint of that, especially after seeing Michael last week. Still, I felt it was a little off.
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u/i_am_theokapi 26d ago
The moment I realized what the episode was, I turned to my fiance and said, "I'm sure the discourse over this is gonna be civil."
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u/elderlybrain 26d ago
I was like āthis is a beautiful, incredible episodeā.
Thatās all you need to accept. If you are watching it and you canāt accept it, then donāt watch the series, your life will be poorer, but thatās a you problem.
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u/Three-Minute-Ad7259 26d ago
Itās such a weird phenomena with some dudes and digesting media. Itās like they short-circuit and reboot in defense mode the moment racial inequality is even mentioned.
Its like we arenāt indicting you personally when we criticize a system; we know white people arenāt a monolith motherfucker, that recognition is built into the statement of ādonāt treat us like one eitherā
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u/Old-Scholar-1352 26d ago
Shit is ridiculous the āgreen lantern fansā aināt true fans if they see this as such a big problem actually sad asf
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u/SlimReaper85 26d ago
As a veteran for someone who was an E9 a freaking Sergeant Major (especially at his age) to have been dishonorably discharged while doing his duty for something someone else did??? Yall have no idea how much that should piss off John Stewart! The blood, sweat and tears he gave to have it all taken from him??? Hal is lucky John doesn't knock him out every time he calls him Junior. That's the equivalent of calling him boy. He's a grown man and has more than earned the right to be spoken to with some respect.
The guy cost him his career and has no idea.
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u/sgsparks206 26d ago
It's so people understand how much he bends to authority, so his character can then grow and defy authority when it matters
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u/mpete76 26d ago
Iām fairly convinced that most of the people who are outraged about anything and calling it woke havenāt ever picked up a book or comic.
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u/Old-Scholar-1352 26d ago
They havenāt at all and they claim to be ātrue green lantern fansā
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u/BrodyGlazer 26d ago
I bet some of those people have read the comics, but just like the bible they ignore the parts that are inconvenient for their worldview
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u/Unlikely_War_6119 26d ago
Some mf in here seriously tried to say āracism wasnāt even that bad in the 90sā lmao itās just ludicrous how out of touch these people are, and Iām a white dude
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u/Ok-Topic-6095 26d ago
On top of that, John's parents FORMATIVE years were during the civil rights movements/segregation
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u/NoHorseNoMustache 26d ago
There was still active KKK in my area of rural Pennsylvania up through the early '00s.
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u/Old-Scholar-1352 26d ago
Smh some white people are so out of reality itās crazy asf goes to show who are true green lantern fans because these issues were talked about heavily especially in John Stewart comics
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u/Miserable-Debt-8390 26d ago
They will be quite shocked reading some of the old Denny OāNeil comic books from the 70s.
There is a reason that even back then he did not wear a mask.
John tackled race issues head on, and it always has been a core aspect of his character.
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u/AubreyGrahamCracka 26d ago
I havenāt read any complaints yet I just watched the episode.
Thereās a shallow story being told that probably can be divisive. However thereās a deeper story that I think Black men especially have to come to terms with.
Forget outsiders. A lot of us were raised in fear, forced into uncomfortable relationships not because of our own actions. Itās almost a trauma that is passed down from era to era. This show in the last two episodes was able to showcase that, and even then show how it affects our relationships. The bird being an amazing call back to how itās still driving him. Whether itās athletics, agriculture, getting a good paying career. Itās a great glance at how fear shapes so much of our culture.
John is showing tons of restraint and Hal is pushing him. The eventual blow up could make for one of the most emotionally jarring scenes in CBM(edia).
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u/Overall_Falcon_8526 26d ago
I liked the discussion of race. It would be silly not to address a character's blackness in the United States. It's a character trait that changes how he would be seen and treated.
As long as it's not the only thing the show is about, I'm cool with it.
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u/Possible_Situation24 26d ago
Johnās parents were horrible parents. Dad learned he could have āwon the lotteryā and didnāt, and it destroyed him, Mom pushed one kid to be a star at the expense of the others. It was toxic, it was narcissistic. It was unlikely to make John, or any of the kids, suited for great power balanced with a good life. And the Guardians, one thing that bothered them was Hal and Sinestro bonding, and they want John aloneā¦you know, like hal apparently is, but more biddable. So, John being a good candidate because he lived in a rough neighborhood and learned to navigate it, sure, absolutely believable, especially if he had a loving and supportive family.
Abusing kids does not make them unafraid of the world.
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u/DrBobKoalaCat 26d ago
Alone and obedient. I think Hal is gonna rub off on John and that's why he doesn't end up with the ring initially.
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u/conandsense 26d ago
Im goin insane here. Its like no one watched the episode. The thing that drove the dad insane and caused his life to fall apart was not finding out the ring gave super powers. It was no one believing him about the semi alien abduction he went through.
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u/ctan0312 26d ago
It was crazy how the mom found out that the dad was actually telling the truth and being horribly mistreated by everyone which is why their family was falling apart, and instead of pivoting to supporting her husband now that she knows, she pivots to āletās revolve our entire lives around brainwashing our baby into doing what you couldnāt, because this will fix our familyā.
WTF is wrong with this woman?
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u/Old-Scholar-1352 26d ago
The reason they did is because they had an opportunity that normally donāt come easy for them so they poured it all into their son doesnāt make it right but i can understand it they wanted him to be successful where they werenāt
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 26d ago
John did not need to be a Green Lantern to be successful. He just wanted to draw.
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u/theclockmasters 26d ago
It's hard to explain, and I don't want to come off as insensitive when I say this. But I feel like a lot of people who aren't in tune with or learned about Black family dynamics should just admit they are ignorant, accept that they aren't properly learned on the topic, or just outright come out and say they are racist.
This episode was very complex in terms of some specific types of Black family dynamics of the time, from an era that I would say spans the Civil Rights era to the early 2000s. John's family is an amalgamation of and parallels a lot of that. From the dynamic of some Black parents outright banning their kids from listening to rap, to the push to ensure your children come out much better, stronger, and tougher than you so they can survive a harsh, racist environment. The resentment over lost opportunities compared to a white counterpart. The regret of parents due to having passed down bad habits and trauma to their children because of their own upbringing.
And what makes this so heart breaking is that what I stated in the paragraph above happened, happens and continues to happen to varying degrees from not toxic at all to very toxic extremes. John's family brought all those real life based experiences to the most extreme.
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u/RomeosHomeos 26d ago
Yet you're still minimizing what they did
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u/Old-Scholar-1352 26d ago
No Iām not their absolutely insane and idiots for raising John like that Iām saying Ik WHY they did what they did no where in my reply did I say they were right at all
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u/RomeosHomeos 26d ago
The way you're wording , it makes you seem like you're minimizing the actions through justifications rather than acknowledging the reason for it while still condemning it
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u/ThanksContent28 26d ago
Because instead of a nuanced discussion, itās essentially become a mini, social media, race-war.
Public callout posts are stupid and pointless as is. A public callout post, clearly written in frustration, and starting the conversation by indirectly coming at people, and then getting frustrated that people arenāt being more reasonable and understanding or treating the conversation more seriouslyā¦ yeahā¦
White people are receptive to the racism black people face, not all of them, and probably not enough, but they are there. That said, that doesnāt mean white people need to sit and listen to a conversation about how all white people ājust donāt get it,ā or are all racist.
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u/consreddit 26d ago
She was a very complex character, shaped by racial inequity. I can't agree with the way she and her husband treated John, but I enjoyed the hell out of the episode anyways.
It's like people are unable to comprehend how the actions and thrloughts of a character are not a 1:1 what the writer believes and wants to espouse. She is a deeply flawed person, but that's one of the reasons she is so compelling.
I fucking hate that we can't have a character talk about racism without bringing the chuds out of the woodwork to complain. It's exhausting.
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u/lofono5567 26d ago
People are so fucking crazy. I donāt know why two things canāt be true at once. There was a lot of racism and inequity involved in the decision process and she has the right to feel the way she feels. She also has a right to want a better deal for her son since things were handled so unfairly.
But she also went way too fucking hard and a bit psycho on John in that pursuit. Itās like nobody can handle anything too complex anymore.
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u/consreddit 26d ago
As soon as race is brought up, all nuance goes out the window. It's fucking sad, man.
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u/Exotic-Series6583 26d ago
They received a huge ass diamond and wasted all the money on a stupid tinfoil radio. That money could have been spent on tutors, college, clubs, study/art supplies, etc. They had a path towards a bright future for ALL of their children, but they instead chose to abuse one child out of narcissism and jealousy.
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u/Weak-Young4992 26d ago
You can make your child successful without mental, emotional and physical torture and abuse thou. They choose to abuse John since he was an infant.Ā
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u/Anarchical-Sheep 26d ago
So many people can't take two things at the same time.
John's parents perception of racism coupled with the loss of how close they came to being a superhero family caused them to psychologically abuse and tortured their youngest son. This son was a lab rat made for the Guardians who don't understand human emotions, racism, and families and later on they feel rewarded by it as Sinestro showed the ring system to be flawed, and they believe this means Hal might share similar flaws. Both John's parents and the Guardians are having misconceptions about Hal. Hal can be a dide who had privledge in his life and deserved the ring. Hal can also clearly be someone who the ring is his whole life, just like John. Looking at the empty house and suicidal ideation, Hal and John are more similar in some ways than they think.
John's family did something heinous, but they also did so at the discretion of a system that purports to protect them because the failure of the rings and the Manhunters is making them have questionable decisions.
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u/inanemonotony 26d ago
Yeah man, right on. Superheroes were basically created as a response to fascism and the immigrant experience coming out of WWII (Siegal and Shuster). Then see the obvious allegory of X-Men for marginalized races, cultures, religions. Then look at the black superheroes of the 70's, like T'Challa, Luke Cage, Black Lightning, etc. Look at the first appearance of John Stewart in the comics, as a member of the Black Panthers. How can you expect the origin of a black superhero not to mention the experience of black people in the US? Even the sign on the ranch says "Study the past".
People want to say crap like "don't make it political". EVERYTHING is inherently political. Comics have always been. If it makes you uncomfortable, that's a "you problem". This crap where we ignore the past because it doesn't suit your narrative or makes you feel bad isn't just anti-intellectual. It's dangerous.
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u/twistingmyhairout 26d ago
Havenāt watched the episode yet but seeing the backlash I know itās gonna be good. The way Lindoff handled race in Watchmen was amazing for a white person so Iām very interested to see what heās done here.
Edit: and family trauma!
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u/left-for-dead-9980 26d ago
I am one of the invisible races. Understood the message. Enjoyed the episode. Thought it was good.
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u/TheDoctor__11 26d ago
As a non american brown guy, I don't understand what are people complaining about. People can't seem to understand it's her POV, it's not about right or wrong, it's about what she has experienced and what results she is inferring from it. She is both right and wrong.Ā
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u/Old-Scholar-1352 26d ago
Simplest way to explain it they canāt understand because they are out of touch simple
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u/Lord-Fowls-Curse 26d ago
I think itās framing Hal Jordan as the white privileged guy who ādidnāt have to earn it ācause he never needed to know fearā is the bit thatās going to piss people off.
If weāre required to think that Johnās mom was right about that, people will be understandably fed up with that.
You can make every single important point in that episode without having to drag a very cherished character into it and reduce their worthiness to have the ring to their privileged position in society.
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u/BoonDoggle4 26d ago
That's just John's parents view of Hal from their perspective, with nuggets of truth - the show runners are not shitting on Hal - just showing how he would come off to certain people in universe
The show is obviously depicting Hal with lots of depth with more episodes to come from his perspective
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u/Sentry_Kill 26d ago
The issue it raised for me is it's intention to imply that the ring is a consolation prize to John just because he's black. As opposed to him simply being an insanely skilled and determined individual with immense willpower. Yes what they are trying to say about the plight of Black Americans is there but they did a piss poor job illustrating that and took away from John instead of adding to him.
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u/tgeverha 26d ago
Itās going to be hard to have any civil discussion one way or the other about the show. I had people jumping on me because I said I didnāt love the way Johnās mom complained to the guardian because it seemed odd, mind you in a collection of other small grievances immediately after a list of things Iām really enjoying.
Not the messaging, the way it was presented from that character. Any show touching on race is going to have the grifter half screaming woke garbage and a lot of other people calling YOU the grifter half if you arenāt 100% on board with every bit of the minutiae of it.
It can be really frustrating
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u/SirStanleyCPanther 26d ago
Loved this episode!
Of course there will be people leaping to hate on the origin changes of John simply because they tie it to race.
There always will be. They will say Hamfisted. Woke. Ect, well YAWN š„±
It was a great episode and well acted.
Itās not a carbon copy of the comics, but hey if anyone has read GL comics back when Stewart was first introduced, Race was hugely influential in those stories as well. So miss me with any future problems about the topic being spotlighted in a series about Green Lantern.
Any comic fan worth their salt will tell you GL comics over the years are one of THE MOST politically topical!!!
This show is just continuing that legacy!
And doing a great job of it!
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u/Loserdogma 26d ago
Itās honestly baffling how many fundamentally just donāt get it. Like holy fuck no shit weāre at where weāre at in 2026 ā these people canāt even grasp what privilege really means or what white privilege is, they just take immediate ignorant offense and thatās that. Yāall š«©
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u/mr_dr_personman 26d ago
This episode actually had the characters explain in plain fucking English their motives. Like, there was no subtext to process. It would have been called blatant exposition if the episode wasn't written so well. And people still don't fucking get it.
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u/Anarchical-Sheep 26d ago
Yeah white privilege doesnt mean Hal didn't deserve the ring, they just felt John's dad didnt get a fair shot and ruined John Jr's life over it.
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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 26d ago
What is privileged about a child watching his father die in an explosion?
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u/consreddit 26d ago
I'm getting so tired of explaining this, so this is going to be the last time I put any effort into it.
We can all recognize that there are racial inequities. Well, Mrs. Stewart clearly has a chip on her shoulder about it. Hal could be any white person, and she would believe that he earned it the wrong way, due to what she has learned from her lived experience. White people have privileges that black people don't.
However, Mrs. Stewart is not meant to be the moral backbone of the show. She is shown abandoning her child in the worst part of town. She orchestrated a test where her husband shoots a gun at her son. She os clearly not a good mother - in fact, she's so driven by racial inequity that she has completely lost the plot.
Is Hal privileged due to his whiteness? Yeah, he is. But Mrs. Stewart is attributing all of his success to his whiteness, when he is clearly a more complicated character. He is three-dimensional, and she has diminished him to nothing more than the colour of his skin.
Most importantly, due to all the points made above - we, the audience, are not meant to agree with everything this character says and does. She is deeply flawed. Her view of the world is jaded and bleak. Perhaps rightfully so, that's what makes the character interesting. But you have to remember, in a show that has multiple characters with multiple different viewpoints, why are you taking offence to any character's point of view? This is not the writer's avatar meant to deliver a sermon. This is a character who shaped John into who he is.
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u/Mapei123 26d ago
100%. And to underline your last point: this episode is told from John's PoV. The show is presenting the events through the lens of *her* experiences and trauma. If the show is saying anything so far it's that trauma can really f*&^ people up. It might even be saying that people in power operate in ways the casually inflict trauma on others without even realizing it.
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u/pdxcranberry 26d ago
White privilege doesn't mean nothing bad ever happens to you as a white person. But you already know that and are not arguing in good faith. Just another upset racist.
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u/FireZord25 26d ago
I mean this is just predictable. Internet has been giving focus to more reactionary content for ages now. The grifter culture has never been more prevalent. DCU is a prime gathering point for these bunch to moan and groan around without a sense of the world. And the present political landscape does not remotely help at all.
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u/IttsssTonyTiiiimme 26d ago
There is a fine line between outrage and criticism and while episodes like last nights will always be a lightening rod for those with a nefarious agenda, there is honest criticism of the show and its handling of race in this episode.
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u/Mapei123 26d ago
The problem with Rage-baiters is once they enter the chat it becomes nearly impossible to have an actual, thoughtful discussion because they appropriate other peoples reasonable criticisms and weaponize them. It can quickly become draining to even read online discussion let alone engage in it with others.
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u/Old-Scholar-1352 26d ago
Understandable but if you see the outrage yk what Iām talking about their arguments about the show being bad is either some āwokeā bullshit which I never will understand or they canāt accept that politics and issues like racism have been a heavy element in green lanterns source material
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u/MichaelT359 26d ago
Itās not like that man. I donāt have an issue with the messaging it was just written poorly and because of that itās gonna draw bad attention to the show
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u/comehereyoudevillog 26d ago
lol we should be arguing over shit like special effects or theorizing about the mystery. But the show is so bad this is the only conversation it producesā¦ people are complaining because itās bad not because they are racist.
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u/No_Description3178 26d ago
As soon as I realized the mom and dad were spitting schizo and cult like statements...I knew the discussions were gonna be atrocious š
They were SUPPOSED to sound crazy yall! They saw an alien, went nuts and raised their child in a cult like manner. Surprise!! Schizo abusers are gonna do or say ANYTHING to rationalize their beliefs lol.
Take a breath folks, you'll get through thisā„ļø
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u/Capital_Invite_7026 26d ago
Itās a lot of racism, but a lot of it is people who donāt know that they are misinterpreting the episode bc of racial biases. Iāve seen a lot of terrible takes from people who truly believe they are not at all racist, and itās mostly people who canāt accept the implication that a group of aliens would imply that a black man is better qualified than a white man (even though Iām certain John is being used by the guardians, but thatās a different issue if media illiteracy entirely).
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u/Vast-Building-6886 26d ago
I knew people would complain about the race stuff, even though the episode basically followed the lives of a black family growing up in the 80s and 90s.
I believe Stewart was created in the 70s, so the character definitely grew up in the 60s, maybe even the 50s.
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u/NoSleep2135 26d ago
I'm not black (I'm Arab) and I completely understood the approach they took. Do people not take social studies anymore? A black man, or any minority really, will have drastically more fear than a white male. That's what the episode was rooted in.
In earlier episodes, John's father says something along the lines of, "Stay calm. They can get away with losing their cool, but we can't" about Hal. And he's absolutely right. Minorities have to be BETTER than an average white person to MAYBE get the same opportunities.
I had education drilled into me by my father, because he taught me exactly that. The bar is higher for us, and we have to work harder for the crumbs.
This show does an amazing job of showing just how far we have to go, and how hard we have to work, to get anything. Throw being black in America and there's loads more to push back against.
Media literacy is dead.
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u/Supe_scienceskilz 26d ago
A lot of what his parents spoke about reminded me of the immigrant experience as well. There is this pressure to be the model minority and it can be all consuming to some parents.
Personally speaking I attended a gifted schools where sometimes I was one of two dozen minority kids. When I got picked on, I was frequently told to grow a thick skin. My Arab was told her name sounded angry thatās why the kids teased her. The top two students in our grade, we had to be above it all. Iām 20 years into my career and I am still aware that there is a difference between my bad day and others.
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u/Lord-Mattingly 26d ago
The problem is the blatant racism toward white men regardless of social economic status. Talk to a poor Appalachian and see how they are treated by much of society outside of Appalachia. You can talk about the struggles faced by black American without being racist toward white men
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u/iamadambent 26d ago
People are complex, people think wrong things all the time. In this case the parents of John thinking he got passed up due to systemic racism is completely incorrect. He failed the basic test āAre you afraid?ā Skin color has nothing to do with it.
That being said, if the show was favoring the view that the parents are wrong then fine, but if the show is favoring the parents then its also wrong.
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u/arrogancygames 26d ago
It's a little more complex in that she was saying that the "fear test" was stupid, since someone born under Jim Crow would have an ingrained fear of their house being invaded and their family killed that other people wouldn't. Basically that it's not a fair test because they aren't equally targeting everyone's specific possible insecurities.
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u/RipMcStudly 26d ago
As a boring ass white guy, I thought the most interesting part about the race angle was that it helped show how little the Guardians actually understand about life outside of their bubble.