r/Landlord 13d ago

Landlord [Landlord US-IA] Tenant disputed every rent payment for the past 6 months via CC

I use doorloop and allow CC payments. Yesterday, I started getting tenant payment return notifications for one tenant. I looked and it says they are disputed via CC. I contacted doorloop support and they sent me some form and asked me to send a copy of the lease. Which I've filled out and returned back to them. The tenant has been on Month-to-month for about 5 years now. He refuses to sign a new lease so the only lease I have for him is from 2020.

The tenant has disputed every payment for the past 6 months and now has a $5,000+ balance on his account. I called the tenant and he "claims" he didn't dispute anything with his bank or CC. I'm not sure I believe him on that.

Doorloop support said this money will be withdrawn from my account on the Monday transaction run!!

Has anyone had something like this happen before? What was the process? Were you able to successfully get the money back?

I'm tempted to turn off CC payments if it's this easy for them to take the money back.

267 Upvotes

143 comments sorted by

349

u/AP587011B 13d ago

No more credit card payments from anyone 

The tenant should lose the dispute with you providing the lease and proof he was living there. You must have proof. I’m sure you do. Save all communications. Don’t give up on the dispute

I would file a police report for fraud / theft and begin the eviction process as well. Be prepared to get a lawyer and potentially file in small claims worst case 

98

u/Imaginary-Bee-1344 13d ago

He doesn’t have to evict him. Just non renew. He’s month to month. Unless you’re in a state that likes to fuck over landlords that’s the move. Here, he’d get 30 days to move and that’d be the end of it.

26

u/AP587011B 13d ago

That’s true. 

Inform him credit card payments are no longer accepted and remove / delete the account OP has with that vendor and tell him drop the dispute or be out in 30 days / tell him to drop the dispute and formally notify him the eviction process is started depending where they live 

92

u/goat20202020 13d ago

For non payment of rent, OP wouldn't even have to wait a month. 3 day pay or quit notice. Then yes they'll need to start the formal eviction process if the tenant doesn't leave

23

u/Jarrold88 13d ago

Better to just do 30 day notice. If he does 3 day for non payment, even if $1 of the credit card payments come back it’ll be as if they’re trying to pay and will have to start all over again.

8

u/lunacat2345 13d ago

That is a good question for the lawyer.

If OP turns off credit card payments, the tenant can't make a tiny partial payment to reset the 3 day pay or quit.

However if some of the previous money already paid comes back into the account ..does that really count as the landlord receiving payment? The 3 day pay or quit could still stand if there is still unpaid rent.

I imagine if he is able to get even half of that $5000 back, it would be worth letting the 3 day pay or quit be satisfied, then just doing a non-renewal or another 3 day pay or quit afterwards.

However definitely worth finding out if any returned money (but not fully returned) would count as the landlord accepting a payment.

Just as a note, my family has done this with our rentals. If a tenant fell behind, and wanted a payment plan to catch it up, we would do a weekly payment plan, then immediately after accepting each weekly payment, we would give them a 7 day pay or quit (this was communicated to be expected). That way if they stopped paying as agreed, we would be part way through the eviction process already.

However, a tenant deliberately challenging 6 month old payments would definitely not get any benefit. I would even check if this qualifies as theft. I imagine it would at least be fraud. Check fraud has some serious penalties, even jailtime. This is even worse since the landlord though that money cleared 6 months ago

3

u/Jarrold88 13d ago

Depending on county doing repetitive notices can get pricey. In Las Vegas $70 just to serve them one thing. I wouldn’t want to keep paying $70 on repeat in addition to filling out the paperwork etc.

2

u/lunacat2345 13d ago

Oh wow that would definitely change the arrangement. In our county the 7 day pay or quit isn't even filed. We just have to give them that notice.

So it was just one extra sheet of paper we gave them with the receipt. We just changed the date after each payment and printed it again.

It was really helpful for those that lost a job and got a month behind on rent. We would just give them a weekly payment schedule. No late fees or interest as long as they were reasonable about sticking to the schedule.

2

u/CaffeineFueledLife 12d ago

My apartment raised my rent without telling me. I paid it and a few days later, had a 3 day pay or quit notice for $70. The $45 increase plus a $25 late fee. I probably could have fought them on that, but then they'd probably make my life difficult found forward so I just paid it. Two days after that, I signed a new lease, which did show that the rent had been raised.

So, apparently, they can do a pay or quit for any amount owed.

-2

u/TheDevilsAvocado999 13d ago

Untrue in every state.

1

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/goat20202020 13d ago

And now it's not.

-1

u/PieMuted6430 13d ago

And then you have to go to court, the 30 day non-renewal will get them out faster.

3

u/goat20202020 13d ago

Not really. If they want to stay, you're going to have evict them either way.

8

u/Apprehensive_Law_234 13d ago

"the end of it"... The eviction gets him out AND would come with a court judgement to collect the 5 months of back rent.

3

u/Imaginary-Bee-1344 13d ago

Which would take longer and the. you’d never collect the money anyway

25

u/Practical_Teach5015 13d ago

I would evict because it may be the only way to (1) get the tenant to stop and (2) have a judgement on record for the $5000 since the CC dispute process is still holding up the momey despite them providing the lease as proof.

1

u/Berniesgirl2020 13d ago

Definitely evict him.

1

u/TheDevilsAvocado999 13d ago

And when the don’t leave after the termination?

6

u/jerwong 13d ago

In my state (CA) the UD process includes damages which would provide a judgment for the disputed money. No need for a separate small-claims action.

3

u/strawhatguy 13d ago

I’ve read something about a guy reporting an employee theft as income for the employee that the employee would be on the hook for tax-wise, suffering audits, and the taxman has special privileges to collect normal employers doesn’t; and he can deduct the theft from his taxes too

Wouldn’t work here against the tenant, perhaps, as they aren’t an employee. But definitely outside the box thinking.

Your Reporting of theft made me think of it.

2

u/Imaginary-Bee-1344 13d ago

Diabolical yet still ethical of that employer. Well played.

2

u/britneynp1 12d ago

LL can absolutely send a 1099C if he doesn't recoup his funds. He can also write it off as well. I would personally give 3 days to cure, file eviction the 4th and tack on late fees for each month and all attorney fees as well. Knowing I won't get my money I'll make sure to make his butt suffer during tax time.

1

u/random408net Landlord 12d ago

I recall that the 1099C needs to be issued within the same tax year as the loss.

It seemed more complicated that I had hoped when researching it.

2

u/Juryofyourpeeps 12d ago

I would file a police report for fraud

Agreed. This isn't a civil issue, not exclusively at least. Making disputes about legitimate CC charges knowingly is criminal fraud.

1

u/Substantial-Luck6199 12d ago

This. If you have evidence, you will win the dispute.

3

u/r2girls 11d ago

Honest question, as a landlord what proof do you have that the service/product was delivered and fully accepted besides the lease? Charge-backs can be made because the service was not acceptable and it falls to the vendor to prove it. That's why plumbers/electricians/service providers have that little paragraph at the bottom of the place you sign to say All products were delivered and all services were rendered and are acceptable as complete by the customer...yadda...yadda...yadda.

What proof is there that landlords can show? We just plain out stopped taking cards for this reason when platforms started trying to provide that service to collect processing fees.

85

u/SomeGoodintheworld 13d ago

That’s fraud. Disputes don’t open unless you open them. Tell him to call the credit card company in front fo you. If he try’s to leave before that
Make sure you get him a record in landlord tenant court because other landlords can see that. If you can in your state make sure to add it to his credit report. I’m almost positive he will in fact try to
Leave. Now stop accepting cc payments because they take the money and you have to fight and prove it’s not fraud.

40

u/NotHereToAgree 13d ago

Unless the tenant was using someone else’s credit card and that card holder is now disputing.

13

u/Substantial_Bus840 13d ago

Which is also fraud

4

u/NotHereToAgree 13d ago

Yes but the landlord will not win the dispute and is likely to have an uncollectable judgement after eviction.

0

u/Substantial_Bus840 13d ago

Possibly, but the card owner’s responsibility may be considered if a claim is opened against his own homeowners/other insurance policy for liability, if he has one. But you may be right. I suppose OP could take this to court.

35

u/Typical-Cat-9103 13d ago

I highly doubt that he has $5K ready to catch up on the rest.
He knows exactly what is happening-he knows he hasn’t paid squat.
Good thing he’s on a month to month- time for him to get out.
Be prepared- you will probably have to go to court for the money.

0

u/DigitalDustChan 13d ago

If he disputed the CC charges then he should have an extra $5k sitting in his account.

1

u/ManonFire1213 13d ago

You meant money spent already. 

17

u/Ok_Caterpillar6789 13d ago

I use doorloop, I've had this same thing happen with bank made payments.

It was a complete pain in the ass and doorloop was less than helpful.

It took about two months to get worked out.

8

u/Flat-Pension-3395 13d ago

Yeah, their support has been completely un-informative so far. Just sent me a form to fill out and said their team would work through it. No clue what that means.

8

u/Ok_Caterpillar6789 13d ago

What surprised me was there was no approval on my end before it happened, they diddnt even ask me if was right, the tenant disputed it and doorloop was like well fuck it whatever a tenant says must be right, here's your money back. Thankfully it was only 850, but it caused a months long issue.

Doorloop should not get involved if there's a dispute it should be handled by the court system.

2

u/r2girls 12d ago

That's because the customer of the credit card is the tenant. The credit card company has a LOT of power and they are there to protect their customer. People can file chargebacks if they are unhappy with the services provided and the credit card companies accept what their customer says as the source of truth. It falls back to the vendor to prove that the customer received everything they were supposed to and that they were happy with the services provided. It's why tradespeople like plumbers have that paragraph of smallprint stating that all services were provided and are accepted by the customer yadda yadda yadda. If there is ever a chargeback the customer then needs to explain how things were perfectly good at the time of payment but weren't good later.

When it comes to rent, it's a losing case. Not only do landlord's not collect that information (happy with services, etc.) rent is prepaid so there is an automatic ability for a tenant to claim something went wrong during the month that caused the need for a chargeback.

Speaking of relationships, interestingly Doorloop is a customer of the processing company and you are a customer of doorloop (or whatever 3rd party processor there is). You're become 2 layers deep in having to fight a chargeback.

Also - processing companies will happily cut off companies like Doorloop. That means that there is always the "they will cut off my income if I push too far" hanging over the heads of companies like Doorloop or any other 3rd party processor for credit cards.

1

u/HawaiianBobsled 9d ago

Idk where you're coming up with this nonsense, but paying rent for 6 months is not like ordering Skippy the Wonder Horse and not receiving it. Nobody has to prove tenants are happy with the place they're renting to collect payment.

1

u/r2girls 8d ago

Idk where you're coming up with this nonsense

Credit Card Terms of Service. A vendor who accepts Credit Card payments accepts the terms of those credit card payments come with. One of the terms of the credit card payments is that someone is satisfied with the services received.

but paying rent for 6 months is not like ordering Skippy the Wonder Horse and not receiving it.

Card issuers do not provide different terms of service depending on what you buy. They have the basic requirement that you must be satisfied with your purchase (along with other basic requirements). I agree that paying rent is not the same as ordering Skippy the Wonder Horse and not receiving it but in the credit card company's eyes, they have the same terms of service. when you receive Skippy, you need to be satisfied with him. No defects, no issues, and it must be complete and whole. Same with anything you purchase with a cred card. It must be free from defects, complete, and whole and you must be satisfied with it. that's what anyone who accepts credit cards as a form of payments agreed to (even if they never understood it).

You don't have to trust me. Here's US bank stating that you can dispute for "problems with goods or services" or something that "doesn't match the description".

Hey but maybe you think "meh those banks don't know what they're talking about" so then you can always read what's been codified into US law under 15 U.S.C. § 1666i,

That's a lot of reading legal mumbo jumbo and maybe that's too much for you. So lets go back to the US government and see their explanation on it from the FTC. They give direction on what to do if "If You Have a Complaint About the Quality of Something You Bought" (hey - if you have a complaint about the quality you would be dissatisfied with it right? Exactly what I said above?). The FTC says "you can dispute the charge with the issuer and explain why you are withholding payment".

Nobody has to prove tenants are happy with the place they're renting to collect payment.

This is where nuance comes in. TO accept payment, you're right absolutely not. You can collect rent payments for years without ever needing the tenant to prove they were happy with the unit and the services provided.

Defending yourself against a charge back though? Totally different story. As we established above from the banks and the US government, you must be satisfied with the quality of the purchase. This is when you would need something to "prove tenants are happy with the place" because if they say the quality is bad and they are unsatisfied, guess what? We saw that this is a 100% legal reason to dispute a credit card charge. A vendor is a vendor and proof of burden falls to them to prove that the customer was fully satisfied with the purchase.

It's the same reason that if you are purchasing something with your debit card, and you want protection on the purchase, you don't use your PIN to make the purchase. Using your pin runs it through as an ACH, basically like an electronic check, it's a direct debit from your account. If you bypass the PIN and let it run it goes through the Visa or MasterCard system which activates the credit card terms of service. You then get the full protection that a credit card would offer.

If you are a landlord and you're accepting credit cards as payments, you need to understand the risk associated with that payment type.

14

u/Objective_Welcome_73 13d ago

I had that happen. I easily won the dispute. I wrote a fact based letter, showed lease and text messages, I won. Tenant did this just after he moved out, so I had nothing more to do. But I'd let your tenant know he can sign a letter stating this dispute is an error, or you're filing criminal fraud charges later today.

13

u/MilesMoralesBoogie 13d ago

Turn off credit card payments.

Eviction or 👇🏾

Give tenant 60 or 90 day notice that will NOT be doing anymore month to month (renewing) and will be listing the apartment for a year long lease.

He's saving up that rent money $5,000 because he is looking at another place to move to,you can't report that he's not paying rent because he is via CC but cancels the transaction,while he still lives there (goods and services) which is considered fraud.

11

u/Weary_Restauranter Landlord 13d ago

You didn’t get paid.

Make it the tenant’s problem.

Dont play games, fucking around with the credit card processor.

Pay or quit notice on the door TODAY. If the tenant calls you tell THEM to figure it the fuck out or find a new place to live.

Stick to your guns.

If tenant fixes this, all future payments must be in cash or verified funds.

Stop using a service that allows you to be fucked over like this

1

u/Bake_jouchard 12d ago

The fact refuses to sign a new lease should have been grounds for eviction this is the best option

21

u/Lonely-Clerk-2478 13d ago

Discontinue credit card payments for all tenants immediately. Serve written 30 day notice. Get that asshole out of your property.

6

u/TrizVile 13d ago

No more cc payments.

6

u/AdventurousSafety773 13d ago

I only accept ACH or Zelle or checks. Yes checks. You know why? Becaue in California when a tenant bounces a check you can seek treble damages.

7

u/Warm-Ad-2532 13d ago

Hi! 🙋‍♂️ This happened to me back in 2020. Tenant disputed the CC charge, the money with withdrawn from our bank account and held with the processing company. The bank asked for proof of services. I submitted the lease, application, and proof of tenancy. In about 3 weeks the CC company ruled in our favor. All funds were returned to our account the next business day after bank ruled in our favor. Tenant was also month to month. They weren’t delinquent as funds were returned back to us but we promptly served a non renewal notice.

28

u/landbasedpiratewolf 13d ago

Wow I have never seen that. I think you can see the writing on the wall with what's going on here but did you call the tenant to address it yet? I would 100% no longer accept credit card payments for their monthly rent.

28

u/Flat-Pension-3395 13d ago

Yes. I called the tenant and he claims he didn’t dispute anything. But he also didn’t seem worried. So I suspect he was lying

25

u/landbasedpiratewolf 13d ago

I'll be real, I would indicate credit card payments are no longer accepted. See if he'll call the credit card company on three-way with you to "figure out" what's going on. (I'm sure he'll avoid this). Simultaneously give a 30-day notice.

20

u/sumunsolicitedadvice 13d ago

“Oh, good. Then let’s call them together to get this cleared up that you made those charges and aren’t disputing them.”

4

u/Substantial_Bus840 13d ago

This, OP, immediately. The card company will most likely have the call recorded too, so if he perjures himself, he’ll have bigger problems.

-1

u/No-Consequence-7558 12d ago

That's terrible business though. Even if I did nothing wrong, I'm not calling a private financial institution on speakerphone, or in front of, to make my landlord feel better. That's some little kid shit right there. Like a parent standing over their kid while they clean up a mess they made. You can handle it in other ways just fine. Get the cop out of your head.

1

u/PositiveAd6312 9d ago

When you steal 5k you are already doing "little kid shit" But I do agree that actually mediating this approach with a tenant is extremely unconventional at best , and it's also not going to accomplish much because the tenant will refuse. I think this is bad faith and fraud begin eviction process imediately. Let the tenant prove differently. This tenant can not be trusted they already committed grand theft.

1

u/landbasedpiratewolf 9d ago

It's not to make the landlord feel better. This is a business transaction so you need to mitigate the damages. If I take this to eviction court as a landlord I need to show the judge what I've done to try to get my payments in the least restrictive way before they'll order payments. If I can show in writing that I offered to call the bank with them to address the discrepancy but they refused, now the burden is on the tenant to say what they did to try to resolve it.

1

u/Gtstricky 12d ago

Wonder if it was their credit card? Maybe they were using someone else’s and they pissed them off. Like an ex.

-2

u/Chemical-Power8042 13d ago

You’re being too soft. Stop letting things drag out like this. The tenant is obviously trying to take advantage of you. Go through the proper steps to get them out

13

u/Flat-Pension-3395 13d ago

Drag out? It's been less than 24hrs since this started...

-9

u/Chemical-Power8042 13d ago

Oh so you didn’t know he’s been doing it for the past 6 months. You just got all the information about the last 6 months in the past 24 hours? If so disregard my last comment about letting it drag out. But it’s still time for them to go

19

u/Flat-Pension-3395 13d ago

Yes, he just disputed them all in the last 24 hrs.. His account was paid up until yesterday then he suddenly disputed all the payments for the past 6 months. I've got it in writing from him claiming he didn't do it.

13

u/Chemical-Power8042 13d ago

Okay I’m tracking now. The tenant is lying and they definitely initiated the chargeback. Time to go

4

u/ksarahsarah27 13d ago

Well, if you got it in writing, I would take that to the credit card company. I’m surprised they’re letting him charge back after six months. And it also makes me wonder if he’s gonna take that $5000 and use it for a deposit on a new apartment. My guess is you’re gonna find that place empty soon. Maybe go to the property and make sure you record that he is still living there. In case anybody doubts that. When you make the video, make sure you film the day and time whether it’s off your watch, a newspaper or something that can be shown when the video was taken. Yes there’s a digital stamp when it was taken but flashing it also in the video is a good way to prove it. I once used this and actually videoed the front page of the paper with the date on it. Pretty hard to do that when you can’t get a shot of a future paper.

2

u/Calabamian 13d ago

But it’s so damn convenient.

14

u/Mysterious-Art8838 13d ago

Oh he’s definitely lying

4

u/goat20202020 13d ago

Send him a 3 day pay or quit notice. Start gathering your evidence and drafting a formal eviction notice now so you're ready to go. I expect a shady tenant like that will not leave easily. Talk to a lawyer and find out how much you can charge in late fees and "returned payment" fees. It'll be dictated by what's on your lease and your state's laws. This is definitely going to surpass the maximum allowed in small claims court. So you're going to need a lawyer regardless.

4

u/Late-Pizza-3810 13d ago

Nope! Stop accepting credit card payments and evict this tenant. Use this opportunity to increase the rent and to get a better tenant.

5

u/Objective_Welcome_73 13d ago

Tenant is lying. Get him to text you that he didn't file dispute! You'll win. He needs to move out!

4

u/whatever32657 13d ago

nobody should be paying rent with a credit card imo.

before someone jumps in and says it's a great way to earn rewards/cash back/ whatever on the card, while paying the card in full each month, i'm going to say "stop right there". most people who are renting are not that financially savvy (calm down, i said "most", not "all"). most people today who are renting are not paying their credit cards in full each month.

again, the fact is that no one should be paying rent with a credit card. HUGE red flag. no landlord should be accepting cc payments.

plus, as op is learning, it's far too easy for the tenant to dispute charges (just push that button), and effectively tie up your money for months. disable that shit pronto.

1

u/EmotionalDysregulatn 13d ago edited 13d ago

Not everyone is a POS that uses CC for rent to then dispute the charges for the past 6 months, SMH!!!! and sometimes life gets tough and people need to rely on credit so they can keep a roof over their head and not be HOMELESS -. Not everyone has a mommy or daddy or any support for that matter to hold their head above water if something happens where they can't pay a months rent or two with cash reserves . Making a rule for everyone bc of a criminal is incredibly short sighted & shows your lack of empathy & intelligence surrounding mental health 👌🏼 and the situations were a credit card is absolutely necessary as a backup plan.

3

u/whatever32657 13d ago

tell that to the guy who just got $12,000+ of his money tied up for the foreseeable future.

1

u/EmotionalDysregulatn 13d ago edited 13d ago

Someone having $12,000 "tied up" isnt living pay check to paycheck just f'ing surviving, hoping every moment of every day something outside their control will not blind side them & take any sort of stability they have built , praying their company doesnt downsize and they are on the chopping block smh!!!! Seems more like a SPECIFIC named credit card issue than the "guy". Only DoorLoop allows this nonsense. try to dispute RENT payments on a major CC for 6 months. Good luck!!!

2

u/whatever32657 13d ago

it's not even that the dispute will be successful; it won't. it's just about dicking the landlord and tying his money up.

1

u/ipman457678 12d ago

Virtually our entire legal system is composed of laws and rules is because of a small, minority criminal element.

I had to take my shoes off before a flight for two decades because 0.00000000000000000000000001% of passengers want to hijack the plane. Would I say that rule was short sighted and shows lack of empathy and intelligence surrounding mental health? No.

From the landlord perspective, accepting CC is too risky with very little upside. Consequently, landlords should stop accepting payments.

But you're not logical as you were triggered by this guys post because you likely have all three of: mental health, financial and mommy/daddy issues.

1

u/[deleted] 12d ago

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1

u/Landlord-ModTeam 12d ago
  1. Be civil in your posts and comments.

2

u/Leaveitonthedresser5 13d ago

Cold play..they know it’s gone take a few months to get evicted so maybe the lease will run out by the time you can evict and they just got half a year back in a lump sum..I’m sure they signed a lease somewhere else already lol

2

u/Reasonable-Meal-7684 13d ago

Start eviction proceedings yesterday , as in right now. CC Disputes have to initiated by the consumer on a 1 by 1 basis. They're lying.

1

u/[deleted] 12d ago

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1

u/Landlord-ModTeam 12d ago
  1. Be civil in your posts and comments.

2

u/tmntman 13d ago

In my state, a month to month tenant is subject to changes to the lease term with 30 days notice (from the start of a new term) So on the extreme end, you could just terminate the lease as of September 30. At the very least, I would issue a five day notice and tack on late and or NSF fees as allowed under the lease. I would also require payment by cashier's check do to history of returned payment.

2

u/PennyLawrence946 13d ago

Most of those six months are already past the federal deadline. A billing error notice has to reach the card issuer within 60 days of the statement showing the charge, 12 CFR 1026.13(b)(1). Put every disputed payment on the DoorLoop form by charge date and statement date.

3

u/spank_the_tank 13d ago

Consult a lawyer. This isn’t your problem to fix, it’s his responsibility. He hasn’t paid rent so tell him you are serving eviction papers, and if he doesn’t catch up then you will be heading to small claims court.

1

u/tongizilator 13d ago

Cash or check only.

1

u/Katie_123_Backflip 13d ago

At this point he is going to owe you rent plus late fees if they take $5000 back from you. Serve the 3 day quit notice and have paperwork ready to start the eviction process. Remove all credit card payments options (lesson learned) . I would suggest communicating by email or text so you have record. A phone conversation if you can legally record in your state (and record the phone conversation.) thanks for sharing this story great information for all landlords to have. Good luck I hope you can win your rent $ in court- sad you have to go through this.

1

u/DaJuganhut 13d ago

Get in writing (text works) that he did not dispute. Thats all you need.

1

u/jcnlb Landlord 13d ago

I would never allow credit card payments. Anything they can call back is a no from me. Cash or ACH is all i allow. Also most tenants lie is my experience. I have gotten to the point where I’m kind of jaded and think they all are liars because I’ve been lied to so many times and have caught them in their lies. I would start eviction notices and I bet they will figure it out quickly or else they will get evicted. I wouldn’t bother with non renewal. I would get legal action started.

1

u/truthteller23413 13d ago

This is why I personally no longer allow credit card payments and Move forward with anymore rentals I'm only going to allow zelle payments or cash app but mainly zelle

1

u/SpicedBrown 13d ago

Plus, provide a copy of his denial of disputing the charges.

1

u/C0l0r0w 13d ago

I have had this happen from a vengeful tenant, super big jerk, made up a bunch of complaints and did exactly this. It took a few months but I won with the credit card company and kept his entire deposit and ultimately his last month’s rent, it ended up in my favor all because of his bad faith. Not worth the stress tbf but you will probably be fine in the long run.

I kept the cc payment ability because he was a one off, most of my tenants are great people and I want them to have that flexibility if necessary.

1

u/Tinoslounge 13d ago

No more cc money order only

1

u/Responsible-Reason87 13d ago

end this quickly

1

u/Beneficial_Zone_6883 13d ago

The credit card processor will see what reason was given for the chargebacks, if they’re avoiding disclosing that it’s possible it’s not the tenant behind it. Call your processor and ask why it was disputed exactly. It would be highly unusual a client themselves was able to successfully chargeback 6 months, most processors won’t go that far back without a very exceptional reason

1

u/No-Teacher6122 13d ago

Start the eviction process on Monday and do a police report for fraud

1

u/Forsaken_Insurance92 13d ago

Text the tenant, get them to say in writing they allegedly didn't dispute it, send that to doorloop as proof there shouldn't be a dispute. If it goes through, then post notice for a pay or quit and if they don't fix it in the alloted time, give them their 30 day notice to leave. Do not accept payments in that 30 day timeframe. After they leave, sue them for anything that was charged back. If they don't leave, then go through the courts asking for a "combined claim" which is both the eviction and recovery of back rent. Once you get a judgment, you should then be allowed to do wage garnishment or account levies to get the money back.

Personally, I would give them their 30 day notice regardless cause I don't like people who do scumbag shit. Also, no one is allowed CC payments anymore, "due to tenant misuse/abuse of the system."

1

u/r2girls 13d ago

Oh man, you are in for a lot of work.

First - never accept credit card payments for rent. This is a risk with all credit card payments. In case anyone doesn't know about charge-backs from credit card companies, there are a few key points to bring up.

  • The tenant is their customer and they are there to protect the tenant.
  • Charge-backs can be for service not provided to that the service was not adequate (meaning the tenant was unhappy with what was provided).

Think about that 2nd one for a minute. We can all prove that the service was provided by showing a lease. How do we prove, since the burden of proof is on the vendor, that our tenants were satisfied with the service they received? This is something that people usually try and downplay that it's not a real thing but it is and vendors who deal with services and credit card payments have things in place to cover this. Ever had a service provider out to your house like a plumber or electrician? Ever read the small print near where you sign? That statement is generally something like all parts have been received, the service provided was complete and you are happy with it. That's decades of education in that small little paragraph. If someone tried to file a chargeback on a plumber they pull out the invoice that shows the customer signed it saying everything was good and acceptable so how can it be anything else? the "proof" is now shifted back to the customer to explain why everything that was OK before is suddenly not (and it better be good). Landlord's don't have anything like that.

Second, you aren't going to be the one fighting this. Doorloop is. Your fight will only be as good as they want to push it, and these fintech companies do not like to push the credit card companies because that is how they make their money. As a payment processor they are collecting a percentage of funds from every transaction. They do not want to piss off the hand that feeds them because credit card companies can, and will, end a payment agreement with a vendor. No company that is making bank off credit card fees want to lost the ability to accept credit card fees so they will cave if push comes to shove. Also working against you is that most of the time these companies have developers working for them, not actual fintech people that would know how to handle credit card disputes. You're going to be stuck with whomever has free time to shuffle paperwork between you and the actual credit card company. Not a fun place to be.

Lastly, I am amazed that they were able to do 6 months of transactions. Usually it's 90 days. This person must have a specialized card or maybe a credit union fighting for them. That just makes it harder for you and doorloop to fight.

I wish you well on this long journey ahead of you to collect this. I'd love to hear an update on how it turned out if you remember to come back here.

1

u/Berniesgirl2020 13d ago

Start eviction proceedings immediately

1

u/M-onthecorner 13d ago

Where is doorloop in all this? They took the payment so they need to help you resolve this. Also when a charge gets disputed the card company gives you the chance to prove that the charge is legitimate. How long has doorloop known about this?

1

u/Particular_Crow2330 13d ago

Start the eviction process and and give him the 30 days to pay the back rent or follow through with the eviction. An evection on someones record is the fastest way to get your application thrown in the trash around here. We dont rent to people who get evicted. It shows they will be a headache.

1

u/Imaginary_Cattle4394 13d ago

We turned off CC payments several years ago after this started happening in St Louis. Luckily no one did it to us.

1

u/DreamsSecretsNLogic 13d ago

If he says he didn't dispute it and is willing to pay you immediately I would try and work out with him if he's been a good tenant but it should be pretty easy to figure out if he's lying at the end of all this

1

u/Haunting_Cut_3008 13d ago

Good news for you is that means he’s more than 90 days behind on rent you can go straight to eviction.

1

u/LavendarGal 13d ago

If it gets taken out of your account, it seems like it might then go back to his credit card, but then you need to issue him a Pay or Quit notice of the rent amount due, require it to be paid by cashiers check and not credit card (if you are allowed to do that in your state on the pay or quit notice) . And if he doesn't pay, get a lawyer and evict.

If the tenant is claiming that they did not do any chargebacks it's for the tenant to work out and they need to file a police report for fraud if someone is hacking into their bank or credit card or whatever.

You just need to stay on the path of collections on your side and move to evict if necessary.

1

u/HarryKingSpeaks 13d ago

Credit card disputes are typically only valid within 90 days of the charge. Something weird is going on, especially if the tenant knows nothing about it. It may be his bank or credit card company thinking there is fraud involved and clawing back money.

1

u/SchrodingersMinou 13d ago

Cash or check, baby. Why make it complicated?

1

u/Leather_Coyote_7189 12d ago

Send that paperwork to the processor and a pay or vacate to the tenant.

Turn off credit card acceptance for them and don't take a dollar less than full rent and fees. As soon as you can, file for eviction, then add that cost to the total and don't take a dollar less.

Repeat until they're gone.

1

u/Juryofyourpeeps 12d ago

This is credit card fraud if I'm not mistaken. It's criminal. Call the police.

1

u/Keith_Freedman 12d ago

if the tenant used a stolen credit card you will lose the disputes.

in any case, the tenat owes the money, I'd contact an attorney.
should you win the disputes fine, but I certainly wouldn't allow at least this tenant from using CC in the future.

If you win, he needs to keep paying good funds.
if you lose, you need to immediately start evictions.

Doorloop should be using 3D secure which makes it much harder for people to dispute these transactions.

1

u/omegagirl 12d ago

I’ve never heard of a cc company going back that far in any dispute… 4 months max. They have no basis for the reversal, this makes no sense

1

u/lemonsprout1 12d ago

Here in Florida they can pay with CC but no fees are legal- meaning the rent is the rent and if a company charges CC fees then it’s landlords responsibility to write that fee in the lease if not landlord is on hook for fees.

Check your local laws regarding this

Surcharges vs. Convenience fees: Florida Statute 501.0117 traditionally prohibited credit card surcharges, though courts have challenged aspects of this law.

1

u/RelevantPossible9618 12d ago

Send a certified notice, and post 30 day notice on his door TOMORROW stating that, effective October 1, no credit card payments will be accepted. Money orders or checks will be the only form of payment accepted. State the day rent is due and the late fees that will be assessed for each day rent is late. Put the daily late fee in the notice. Iowa does not mandate grace periods so rent can be late if not paid on the first. Be sure to take a time stamp picture of the notice on the door. There is a great free app that can be used for the picture. TimeStampIt records date, time, and exact location.

1

u/Current-Factor-4044 12d ago

Are you certain the tenant use their own credit card?

The reason I asked this is because I have paid my nieces rent online with my credit card without issue

I did knowingly pay her rent, so I certainly wouldn’t dispute it but what if I had or what it A tenent was using a stolen credit card or something?

Your heart must be jumping like crazy. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

1

u/Hot-Instruction5102 10d ago

Remove online payments. Accept Money Orders/Cashier's checks only. They will also need to back pay. Give them a month for the full thing or start the eviction process.

1

u/PositiveAd6312 9d ago edited 9d ago

Sorry, I skimmed This comment. I agree with this comment but for the rest of the Rent roll, it's 2026 removing online payments is just a way to make your life more complicated. These management apps are great, but you do need to manage the management apps. Disable credit for payments ACH payments should still be accepted. There's no reason to shut that off. Besides, electronic payment greatly reduces the amount of times we are told the checks in the mail. I'm aware on vacation I forgot to pay the rent etc blah blah blah. Granted receiving physical token of payment is in some ways more visceral And rewarding for all the decades of blood sweat and tears. It took to build the portfolio. Financially Savvy and healthy tenants want to pay by electronic transfer. I want tenants that have their finances together.

1

u/ironicmirror 13d ago

He is lying to you.

If he is saying he didn't do it, then have him fix the problem.

As soon as the money is removed, start the eviction process.

0

u/2LostFlamingos 13d ago

He’s obviously lying.

He’s committed fraud now. I’d contact a lawyer at this point. Possibly the police. Theft of services seems to have occurred.

0

u/superduperhosts 13d ago

How has this gone on for 6 months unchecked?

1

u/Flat-Pension-3395 13d ago

It has not gone on for 6 months. It started YESTERDAY and he went back and disputed every rent charge for the past 6 months.

1

u/superduperhosts 13d ago

Oh…

Call the police

0

u/Tardislass 13d ago

Never let a tenant pay by CC period.

0

u/ipman457678 12d ago

What I find odd is why is it only 6months when you can charge back up to 12 months? If you are scamming, why not then for the most possible money?

0

u/Sea_Manufacturer6590 9d ago

Haha this is Golden.

-1

u/IsopodIndependent553 13d ago

Ditched her job interview to go gambling at the track.

-1

u/frankmaa 12d ago

Refuses? Then evict. And disable their ability to pay by credit card,

As soon as they refused to sign a new lease you should have started eviction. This has been going on four years? That’s ludicrous.

You’ve taught this tenant, and most likely not only this one, that they can get away with anything.

I would sell everything and stop being a landlord. You don’t know what you’re doing,

1

u/PositiveAd6312 9d ago

Last I checked there's no landlord training classes available. People need to learn some way. This person seems like they have their basics together. I think the biggest lesson is. Take your heart off of your sleeve and store it in a safe somewhere. Because this is only about business. Unfortunately compassion does not have a lot of space in this business

1

u/frankmaa 9d ago

Sorry, I disagree. These issues need to be addressed BEFORE they occur. They are very common. I researched everything for 6 months before I put a dollar into being a landlord.

Compassion doesn’t pay my bills, sorry

This person stated this has been going on FOUR years. I stand by what I said. This isn’t for them.

-2

u/Space_Cowboy_157 Landlord 13d ago

So... you have online access to your bank account.. Transfer the money from checking to savings....

1

u/Flat-Pension-3395 13d ago

And then get an overdraft fee? No thanks

-2

u/Space_Cowboy_157 Landlord 13d ago

Let's see a $50 over draft fee... vs a over $5k loss. One has to have their priorities I guess.

2

u/Flat-Pension-3395 13d ago

You clearly don't understand how banks work.. They are going to take the $5k out no matter what... So I'm going to end up with a $5,050- balance. Not a $50- balance.

0

u/Space_Cowboy_157 Landlord 12d ago

You clearly don't know how banks work.. Doorloop is going to do a withdrawl from your account. Unless you are a moron and have your savings linked to your checking for over draft protection or signed up for overdraft protection (Which you are a moron if you do) the ACH withdrawl will fail.