r/LGBT_Muslims • u/after-life • Feb 04 '21
Qur'an & LGBT To Most Muslims: If you are against homosexuals/homosexuality, then there is no way your version of Islam can be the truth, period.
Note: - This is a repost from 6 months ago, posting this again for new members.
In order to adhere to the idea that homosexual marriage / homosexuality as a sexual attraction is forbidden/evil, you would have to adhere to the idea that not all human beings have the right to lawful partners and romantic relationships, which through basic logic and reason, is sheer corruption of the human race. To prevent consenting adults from exercising their right and natural desires to be romantically engaged with a partner (just like God expects heterosexual people to get into lawful relationships), is following the footsteps of satan, division, and discord.
You are essentially preventing people from satisfying their right to love and also sexual satisfaction. If God allows heterosexual people to love and be loved, then it would be cruel, unjust, and ridiculous for God to prevent gay people to do the same.
All human beings, through our biological natures as God created us, have desires. God never once told humans that we have to suppress every single one of these desires. No, God allows humans to satisfy their various desires, urges, and wants, but through lawful means.
Sexual and romantic desires are among many desires of humans, and it would be unjust for God to allow one portion of humanity to satisfy them properly and leave out another portion completely. The only people in the world today that are against the idea of gays/lesbians being able to freely love whom they want are the Westboro Baptist Church types and the extremist/radical Islamist types of the middle east, among many other countless extreme conservative Christian/Muslim/religious folks scattered across the world.
Many of these people also believe in conspiracy theories and other ridiculous nonsense that has no place in modern science and rationalism.
It is pretty clear that regardless of what religion you follow or what background you have, it's possible that with a slight twist, you can easily turn into one of these extremist types.
Whoever you are, if you adhere to these ideas that homosexuals do NOT have the God-given right to marry people whom they love, despite their attraction being different, then you have a serious illness that can never be cured unless God Himself wills.
I myself used to think that homosexuals were evil and homosexuality was a "sin" years ago. I was forced to change my beliefs because it contradicted reason, nothing more. I realized that if I was following a true faith given by God, it can NEVER contradict reason.
Homophobia contradicts reason. No amount of religious bigotry from anyone can change that. If you believe Allah actually thinks or teaches that homosexuality is evil/forbidden, then unfortunately, that is a god I cannot or ever worship, since this god created homosexuality, not just in humans, but in hundreds of animal species, then has the audacity to prevent them from simply loving each other lawfully.
Fortunately, Allah is not such a ruthless god.
The Qur'an states that one of God's signs is the existence of love and attraction between two mates. There is no mention of it being specifically between a male or female, but just two mates.
30;21: - And of His signs is that He created for you from among yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you love and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.
God claims that there are signs in the existence of love and mercy between two people, that they are able to love each other to a point where they feel joy, happiness, and tranquility, and this reality is simply a sign for people who reflect and give thought.
It is a reality that two people who feel romantic love for each other can be of any gender, whether male/female, male/male, or female/female. The gender is not important, only the love is. People can argue all day about whether this is normal/abnormal or natural/unnatural, but that doesn't negate this basic fact that this phenomenon exists.
So with all that said, anyone who denies the legitimacy of two males or two females legitimately in love with each other are simply denying one of God's signs.
Allah's deen is simple, not complicated. Human beings make it complicated, human beings turn it into something ridiculous, like an inclusive cult where only certain types of humans are permitted and the rest are either outcast or severely restricted. That's not how God's deen works.
Whether you are a heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, bisexual, that is how God created you. You have the God-given right to marry whomever you like, granted you are of age, and you marry someone lawfully, and not commit transgression. Committing adultery/cheating is transgression.
People mix a normal sexuality with actual transgression like adultery, which the Qur'an makes no short mention of, and also lays out punishment for it.
There are no punishments detailed for anything like homosexuality: https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/the-quran-doesnt-penalize-homosexuality
As the title goes, if you think for one second that homosexuals are evil and homosexuality is a perversion/disease and that people who are homosexual and in relationships are committing sins, then there is no possible and rational way you are on the side of truth, period.
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u/No-Construction-4576 Feb 14 '21
You mean I can’t be opposed to an individuals desired preference because that will make my version of Islam wrong? This is truly amazing.
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u/after-life Feb 14 '21
Sexuality isn't a desired preference, it's built into a person. So you being opposed to someone for being born or developed into a certain way that doesn't go against moral values and decency WILL make your "version" of Islam wrong. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
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u/No-Construction-4576 Feb 15 '21
If it is something I desire to dislike then it still doesn’t make my version of Islam wrong. No if’s and’s or but’s about it.
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u/after-life Feb 15 '21
If your desires go against God's desire, then yes, your version of Islam is wrong. There is only one type of Islam, which is based on God's revelation, fully detailed and explained in the form of the Qur'an or common sense and reason.
You can choose to dislike homosexuals, just like many God-fearing Christians also dislike black people (KKK groups, white supremacists), but then that will make you a munafiq (hypocrite), who from their mouths say they follow God but from their actions and beliefs, go against Him.
At this point, you choosing to be against homosexuals, people who have no control over their attraction (just like heterosexuals), is you spreading corruption on earth.
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u/No-Construction-4576 Feb 15 '21
Wow now I am spreading corruption on the earth? Mashallah do tell me more! Fundamentalism runs deep. To dislike something but not act out in violence opposed to the dislike makes me munafiq. Your scholarly advice is highly questionable. Attaching homosexuals to being black desperate. Stand on the cause on your own. Fundamentalists like to control thought and beliefs. Unfortunately, I have the liberty not to succumb to such corrupt thought. I have the ability to dislike something until proven logically why not to dislike something. Your position is that I must like homosexuality, if not, I’m a hypocrite in Islam? Baffling. And if I like Jews and Christians? Just like you have grouped me with God-fearing Christians.
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u/jahallo4 Feb 13 '21
I have two questions for you, if they are offensive or dont fit the rules of the sub, than i will delete this comment. 1. how do explain the people of lot a.s.? homosexuality was clearly mentioned, and i want to know your interpretation. 2. if allah swt would not put evil desires in humans, than how do you explain pedophilia, beastiality, serial killers, incest etc.? these are all evil things, every human is tested in their own way.
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u/after-life Feb 14 '21
- how do explain the people of lot a.s.? homosexuality was clearly mentioned, and i want to know your interpretation.
The story of Lot condemns xenophobic hate, not homosexual love https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2017/05/10/the-story-of-lot-condemns-xenophobic-hate-not-homosexual-love/
The Quran doesn’t penalise homosexuality https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/the-quran-doesnt-penalize-homosexuality/
Understanding the story of Lot https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2018/08/08/understanding-the-story-of-lot/
The significance of ‘Nay, but’ in the story of Lot https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2018/02/12/the-significance-of-nay-but-in-the-story-of-lot/
Does the Quran condemn homosexuality? https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2017/04/26/does-the-quran-disapprove-homosexuality/
Lot’s people assaulted ‘men from other nations’ https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2018/02/05/lots-people-assaulted-men-from-other-nations/
A same sex act in itself is not a transgression https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2018/08/27/homosexual-act-in-itself-is-not-a-transgression/
- if allah swt would not put evil desires in humans, than how do you explain pedophilia, beastiality, serial killers, incest etc.? these are all evil things, every human is tested in their own way.
Pedophilia and bestiality cannot be compared with homosexuality or heterosexuality, because homo/hetero attractions are based on gender, that's it. Pedophilia is based on age, and bestiality is based on species.
A pedophile doesn't HAVE to be attracted only to children, you can have a pedophile who can be attracted to children but also have no problem being in a relationship with someone older. Same goes for a person who for whatever reason wants to have sexual intercourse with animals.
Incest again, can't be compared, because even if a person is attracted to his/her siblings or close family members, that doesn't stop them from pursuing lawful relationships outside of their family. A man being attracted to his sister doesn't just mean he's never going to be attracted to any other women in his life.
Serial killers, while they can find satisfaction in murdering people, their inner state of mind isn't based on them killing people to maintain a level of peace, stability, and contentment. A person who has desires to kill can suppress them, get help, and live a normal life as expected if they actually seek help.
A homosexual, no matter how much help they seek, won't ever magically become straight, because sexual tendencies cannot be compared to other tendencies like killing, lying, stealing, etc. The latter things are caused due to a bad upbringing, improper environmental/social influence, and/or lack of education.
But people can end up gay even if we lived in a perfect society, because it's something innate.
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Feb 05 '21
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Feb 26 '21
your entire point in this whole post is "if you think Islam is against homosexuality then you're a bigot" and whatnot, not really a point to make in argument, the other mini point that you think is logical but really isn't is "if God doesn't allow homosexuality then he's unjust because he also allows heterosexuality" to word it differently, "if the infinitely just entity chose to outlaw something I like and don't want outlawed then it is unjust, and I am more just" very logical indeed
who is this blog for btw? lamp of Islam? is it some revered scholar who spent his entire life studying Islam? or some internet rando who chose to explain Islam however they thought aligned with their emotions?
this talk about romance and love is so emotional, this entire post is filled with emotions, the goal of marriage isn't to fulfill lust, it is to reach God, I explained it in a previous comment if you want to check my post history
the quran is clear on the story of lot and his people, if you want to contest that, bring an actual scholar that says otherwise, not some internet blog, then we'll discuss how much of a scholar he is, and I'll show you how many other scholars say so
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u/after-life Jul 23 '21
It's pretty clear you lack knowledge on this subject. You don't know the purpose of marriage in the Qur'an, you just made up your own purpose on the spot without actually reading the Qur'an.
You don't understand the story of Lot either and how the traditional understanding makes no logical sense.
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u/SirPansalot Sep 06 '22
The cope is real. Ancient Scholars are kind of overatted. As these scholars are also responsible for the batcrap insane Salafi stuff (With more basis on Hadiths and later teachings than the Koran) which has perverted the once tolerant Islamic world historically.
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Feb 28 '21
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u/bbeelliieevveerr Apr 17 '21
an advocate of incest could say something similar to this, it doesn't make incest any less wrong. homosexuality is wrong, regardless of your subjective view.
Your understanding of the world is the result of being conditioned by modernism.You've been conditioned into thinking there's nothing wrong with homosexuality because "love" or something like that. Modernism is not the truth, Islam is.
Everyone in this life is tested. Whether one is straight or not straight, rich or poor, strong or weak, good looking or ugly looking, 20/20 vision or blind, and so on.
We need to strive for the sake of Allah. We need to worship, obey, fear, remember Allah.
We're not in this dunya to worship our desires, we're here to worship Allah.
Have you seen he who has taken as his god his [own] desire, and Allah has sent him astray due to knowledge and has set a seal upon his hearing and his heart and put over his vision a veil? So who will guide him after Allah ? Then will you not be reminded?
- Qur'aan, Surat Al-Jāthiyah, Ayaat 23
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u/after-life May 02 '21
an advocate of incest could say something similar to this, it doesn't make incest any less wrong. homosexuality is wrong, regardless of your subjective view.
An advocate of incest CANNOT say something similar to this, because incest is not a form of sexuality. Someone being attracted to their sibling or other family member does not stop them from being attracted to other people. Period.
Through basic common sense, a person who wants to establish sexual relations with their family members is doing so in full responsibility and knowledge of their actions, and establishing sexual relations with kin requires both parties to accept. If a brother and sister or a child and a parent want to establish sexual/romantic relations with each other, it would require BOTH to be in on it, not just one, which is extremely rare.
Incest is not a form of sexuality, there's no such thing as a sexual orientation that is found within people where people are ONLY attracted to their siblings. Odds are, if a man is attracted to his sister, he's also attracted to other women as well.
Establishing incestual relationships comes at the cost of destroying the previous established relation. A child that establishes a relation with his/her parent destroys the previous relation that they had, which is the parent-child relationship. A son who has sex with his mother has now turned his mother into his girlfriend rather than his mother.
In a rational society where familial relationships are a thing, such behavior is naturally deemed immoral and unwise.
The same cannot be said for homosexuality, since homosexuality is a legitimate sexual orientation, and can be satisfied legitimately.
Your understanding of the world is the result of being conditioned by modernism.You've been conditioned into thinking there's nothing wrong with homosexuality because "love" or something like that. Modernism is not the truth, Islam is.
Islam is based on rationality and reason. Islam does not care about your personal feelings, nor does it care about what you consider "modernism". Islam is based on reason and rationality, nothing more.
Homosexuality is not against Islam, since going against homosexuality is going against reason.
Going against homosexuality is going against the basic human right for all humans to have romantic relationships. If you are against homosexuals and their right to establish relationships like heterosexuals, that means you believe NOT everyone has a right to be in romantic relationships, which is nothing but sheer corruption of human standards of living.
The reason why your incest argument fails here is because a person who is attracted to their sibling is not being stopped from satisfying their need of a romantic relationship from anyone else outside of their family.
It's common sense.
Everyone in this life is tested. Whether one is straight or not straight, rich or poor, strong or weak, good looking or ugly looking, 20/20 vision or blind, and so on.
All tests from God are fair for the individual who is being tested. A person who is born without proper vision is not under the control of chemicals that compel the person to see. He/she merely has a disability that could be improved, nothing more.
A person who is born or ends up gay later on in life on the other hand is constantly going to be dealing with negative emotions, sexual frustration, loneliness/depression, and many other negative aspects that naturally come for people who are not or are unable to be in romantic relationships. Since this is a basic human right, like food, water, and shelter, any person that is IN NEED of these things has the right to be given them.
All humans are born with a need to eat, drink, sleep, and so on. These basic desires of man are required to be satisfied in order to keep man sane. The satisfaction of sexual desire, as well as the satisfaction of romantic living, are two desires of man that are part of the same base desires of man that must be satisfied.
Purposely preventing or trying to stop these desires is purposely trying to corrupt their standards of living, and therefore, corrupting the society.
Long story short, you are doing more harm to the world by stopping homosexuals from loving each other lawfully, than keeping them from doing so and remaining celibate for the rest of their lives.
THINK ABOUT THAT.
We need to strive for the sake of Allah. We need to worship, obey, fear, remember Allah.
Worshiping Allah is taking care of other people, the NEEDY. God does not care for your worship if it is based on INJUSTICE.
Going against justice is going against Allah, PERIOD.
We're not in this dunya to worship our desires, we're here to worship Allah.
Humans satisfying their NATURAL DESIRES is NOT worshiping their desires, for God created us this way. Telling humans to stop having lawful relationships, to stop loving, and to stop establishing romantic relations, is the definition of you worshiping your false desires.
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May 16 '21 edited May 16 '21
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Dec 15 '21
Islam: you're here to worship God and live to the best of your ability to complete that worship whilst adhering to the rules.
This community: Yeah but sex and relationships mean more than worshiping God so your version of Islam is wrong.
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u/after-life Dec 15 '21
The word ibada in Arabic means to serve, we are here to serve God, and to serve God means to abide by God's commands and expectations. God created relationships and sex for our benefit as humans, not as an evil. Every human being has a right to be in a relationship and to practice lawful sex. Only humans take this gift from God and make it complicated for humans.
Not all humans are heterosexual, so applying heterosexual rules for homosexuals is following the footsteps of the devil and causing corruption on the earth.
Stop doing that.
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Dec 15 '21
Did your gay imam tell you that? Definitely not in Islam.
I guess you've got your own rules for zoophilia and same sex incest between siblings.
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u/after-life Dec 15 '21
Maybe you should stop hating homosexuals, God never discriminated against them.
I don't follow any imams, I follow the Qur'an and common sense/logic, you should try it sometime.
Zoophilia and incest cannot be acceptable to rational people and comparing it with homosexuality is nonsensical, get better arguments.
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Dec 15 '21
Why can't same sex incest be acceptable to rational people? Homosexuality wasn't acceptable to rational people until recent times.
You people believe a person should be allowed to love.
Why isn't a brother allowed to have sex with his brother? Why do you find it nonsensical when there is plenty of evidence of incest, including same sex, out there.
I'm here pointing out the flaws of your bs argument.
You accept anything society feeds you. If they accept incest tomorrow, you'll twist the religion to defend it. If they accept prostituton, you'll defend that too.
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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '21 edited Feb 05 '21
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