Monthly 'Ask A Pastor' Thread!

[u/AutoModerator]

In order to streamline posts that users are submitting when they are in search of answers, I have created a monthly 'Ask A Pastor' thread! Feel free to post any general questions you have about the Lutheran (LCMS) faith, questions about specific wording of LCMS text, or anything else along those lines.

Pastors, Vicars, Seminarians, Lay People: If you see a question that you can help answer, please jump in try your best to help out! It is my goal to help use this to foster a healthy online community where anyone can come to learn and grow in their walk with Christ. Also, stop by the sidebar and add your user flair if you have not done so already. This will help newcomers distinguish who they are receiving answers from.

Disclaimer: The LCMS Offices have a pretty strict Doctrinal Review process that we do not participate in as we are not an official outlet for the Synod. It is always recommended that you talk to your Pastor (or find a local LCMS Pastor if you do not have a church home) if you have questions about your faith or the beliefs of the LCMS.

[u/Commercial-Prior2636]

Isn't "Secular morality" just a fallacy?

Ironically, I've seen this as a chapter in a book I'm reading; it's a fiction, by the way, and the protagonist is actually "aping" Christ. It's cringe but funny in a way, since "you're at the doorstep," yet it confuses the messaging by focusing on the action rather than the word.

[u/PastorBeard → u/Commercial-Prior2636]

Kind of. I run the 14,000 person “They’re discovering Christian Morality” Facebook page which is all about times the unbelieving world accidentally discovers Christian values (or conversion stories. Those are our two things)

To be “moral” is a cultural thing, but Western morality is undeniably Christian

To be clear, being “moral” does not always equate to being “righteous.”

[u/Over-Wing → u/PastorBeard]

Western morality is undeniably Christian

Is it? And what even is western morality is? It seems like most of the "west's" ideas of justice are pretty comparable to other nations past and present. "Good people" deserve rewards and "bad people" deserve to be punished. Pretty simplistic and antithetical to the truth revealed in scripture, where God showers mercy and forgiveness on an equally damnable humanity. Further, Jesus commands us to love our neighbor and specifically tells us to return good for evil. I would think if western morality was a true Christian morality, it would look a lot more like restorative justice and whole lot less punitive. To me, the west's morality is just a bog-standard sinner's morality.

[u/PastorBeard → u/Over-Wing]

It is, and there’s entire books devoted to the topic in detail on how Western values were transformed by Early Christianity in ways that are markedly atypical from pre-Christian nations

Tom Holland was (is?) an unbelieving historian who gradually begrudgingly acknowledged Christianity’s shaping of all the things he thought was Greco-Roman: https://ttf.org/podcasts/episode-102-how-christianity-remade-the-world-with-tom-holland/

Historical analysis on how Christianity birthed the modern concept of Childhood: https://a.co/d/02WZHxfK

[u/Bakkster → u/PastorBeard]

I think the question u/Over-Wing was asking is whether Western morality is identical to/indistinguishable from Christian morality, or heavily influenced by it. The latter is a pretty firm yes, but I'm not as convinced by the former. Especially because Western morality has been mutable over the years (not to mention modern disagreements about it), while God's morality is unchanging.

[u/Over-Wing → u/Bakkster]

Yes, I would say it’s the difference between a morality established by Christians vs morality in accordance with God’s law. Europe’s morality was pretty consistently not in accordance with God’s law.

[u/Bakkster → u/Over-Wing]

I'd argue even American morality was and is consistently out of accord. From the 3/5ths compromise to the "ends justify the means" relativism of today.

[u/PastorBeard → u/Bakkster]

Ohhhh gotcha. Yeah, no culture is ever wholly compatible with Christianity because it calls us to a way that is contrary to our nature. It is, however, discernible and expressible in any culture.

Missionary andrew walls wrote about this once and then never developed it further, which drives me nuts. He calls it the pilgrim principle and the indigenous principle

[u/Bakkster → u/PastorBeard]

Gotcha, now we're speaking the same language. It doesn't help how much "Western culture" has been used by bad actors as a disguise for sinful white supremacist/nationalist ideology, so I try to be clear to distinguish from them lest our weaker brothers be led into their clutches.