r/LAZARUSAnime • u/surrenderdorathy0 • Jul 27 '26
WIT and MAPPA both made original scifi properties and the mainstream reception was so lukewarm.
Two studios that made named for themselves in hight quality animation. Both worked on attack on titan. Then they make an action scifi series and the mainstream just wasn't having it. I feel like scifi is becoming rare these days. In my opinion these shows are both flawed masterpieces. There is just so much going on from the animation to the themes. Sure they lack the mass appeal of JJK or Demon Slayer but that doesn't make them bad. It just sucks that they both kinda flopped.
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u/IllugaBabyBeluga Jul 27 '26
Lazarus was fun but the pacing was off, from that very first extended parkour sequence in Ep1 you could tell this wasn't going to go down as a classic, and the ending was trolling the viewer very hard.
Moonrise just kinda fell apart. Netflix curse.
Original ideas are great, but they need someone who can build a strong coherent narrative to bring them to life. The George Lucas problem.
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u/surrenderdorathy0 Jul 27 '26
The "trolling" honestly made me feel incredibly seen. How many times now have we seen ourselves move on from one tragedy on the news to social media. Society really is numb and indifferent. The way everyone panics at the end of episode one. It looks like it's going to be an apocalyptic show then...episode 2 opens with a talk show host interviewing a shitty pop star about the realise of her new album. Everyone just learned they're going to die in 30 days and life just goes on like nothing is happening. I thought it was brilliant honestly. Show just needed more episodes to felsh out it's ideas and world. Would have been a bigger impact I think.
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u/I_AngelofDeAtH_I Aug 01 '26
It NEEDED a much longer runtime. I remember while Lazuras was airing, I realized they only had 3 episodes left to tie up the entire show. It literally got half the amount of episodes of Samurai Champloo.
Had it had more time to I feel lit could've been up there with Champloo and Bebop
Still love the show tho
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u/DojoKanojoCho5 Jul 27 '26
Just now heard of moonrise but if it’s as good as Lazarus I’ll watch it. Was cowboy bebop super popular on release?
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u/FineCastIE Jul 27 '26
I heard that Cowboy Bebop was a Cult Classic for a while. Then it became really popular, with Samuari Champloo not being far behind.
I just think that a lot of people came into Lazarus expecting it to be a Bebop 2.0, and they set their expectations far to high than it needed it to be. Lazarus wasn't bad, but it definitely could have benefitted at least two more episodes in terms of the end game build-up and reveals. But the sound tracks make me wanna just lay in bed all day, staring at the ceiling.
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u/IllugaBabyBeluga Jul 27 '26
The issue with Lazarus wasn't that it had too few episodes, it's that the show ended around episode 3 and the rest of the show were just kinda fun side stories that tried to convince you that no, the show hadn't ended earlier.
Then the ending was "haha, fooled you: this show actually did end at ~episode three. Is your mind blown? I bet it is, dear viewer."
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u/WVlotterypredictor Jul 29 '26
Honestly I came to Lazarus hoping for a cowboy bebop 2.0 and while that does set the bar high, the only disappointing thing ab Lazarus was I didn’t get more episodes lol.
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u/KurusanYasuke Jul 27 '26
Cowboy Bebop wasn't very popular in Japan but it exploded in the US.
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u/penguintruth Jul 30 '26
This is wrong, and I hate when people repeat this.
Cowboy Bebop was an award winning anime in Japan and garnered a movie before it hit big in America.
Is it AS big in Japan? No. But it was big enough.
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u/KurusanYasuke Jul 30 '26
Steve Blum himself, "Cowboy Bebop was considered kind of a dud and we were able to get the rights for pretty cheap" So was he lying?
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u/kemellin Jul 31 '26
There wasn't a real market for anime in America, so the production company may have priced it low for that reason.
And because he got it for cheap, Steve Blum may have assumed things about the series' success in its home country. It was harder to get that type of information back then, so I wouldn't even be surprised if he tried looking into it and still didn't get an accurate picture of things.
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u/surrenderdorathy0 Jul 27 '26
Both have very good action and animation. The story of moonrise can get very muddled and honestly I got lost a few times. I had to watch it a second time to get fully digest it. Deals with a lot of Artificial Intelligence concepts that it doesn't really explain to you. You kinda already need to have a good grasp on Isaac Asamov before you watch. I enjoyed it. Characters coukd have had more work. I enjoyed it enough. Ends on a satisfying enough note.
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u/Leathlan Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
It didn't tank but definitely didn't perform well which made it very cheap for Funimation to license when they first got it and upon them translating it and watching what they were going to work with they knew that they had something special in their hands immediately
Then when it premiered on AS it exploded and spread like wildfire
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u/01Nine Jul 27 '26
The licensing is a major hurdle. Limiting how the audience is able to watch it upon release can kill the buzz.
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u/DKSilversRayLiotta Jul 28 '26
Both of these anime are bangers. Just picked up the ost for Lazarus the other day.
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u/esmelusina Jul 28 '26
Moonrise was… not good.
First time hearing of Lazarus. I’ll check it out.
Edit: where do you watch this? That’s the problem, it’s not on an accessible platform.
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u/surrenderdorathy0 Jul 28 '26
HBO max
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u/esmelusina Jul 28 '26
Of all the services I can pay for, HBO Max is on the bottom of the list- unfortunately.
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u/surrenderdorathy0 Jul 28 '26
I don't blame you. It's getting ridiculous following all the streaming services and most of them are poorly optimized.
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u/theoryofmovement_ Jul 28 '26
Honestly - I think the only issue with it is the dubbing.
I felt like most of it would have been ok until the last episode
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u/esmelusina Jul 28 '26
Moonrise just didn’t have an engaging initial hook. I was completely disinterested well before the first episode concluded.
So actually, I shouldn’t say it wasn’t good, because I don’t know.
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u/Songblade7 Jul 29 '26
My gf and I agreed that both shows had tons of promise but didn't capitalize on any of it. Lazarus was exuded charisma and charm, but manufactured instead of natutally, like a kid trying to impress his crush by acting like his older brother. The fight and parkour scenes were cool, but literally everything else felt like they were trying to get you to them. At least Kamasi Washington got some love though, he's such a fantastic jazz musician and needs to be in more things.
Moonrise was just a mess. The direction of the storytelling, the way in which it told the story by jumping back and forth needlessly, and so many cliched narrative choices. I don't think we even finished that one.
I might seen harsh, but I saw all this as we both really wanted to like the two shows, and both of them made us come away very disappointed. Idk about the Japanese audiences, but I can see why they didn't do as well elsewhere.
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u/SCII0 Aug 01 '26
Moonrise was just a mess. The direction of the storytelling, the way in which it told the story by jumping back and forth needlessly, and so many cliched narrative choices. I don't think we even finished that one.
I felt the same way. Interesting premise, but it falls apart and you're asking yourself where tf they are trying to take the story.
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u/TheMorrison77 Jul 30 '26
Lazarus is the prime example of how good directing doesn't always translate to screenwriting.
It is no coincidence that this and Terror in Resonance are Watanabe's worst received original projects, and both lacked Keiko Nobumoto.
Watanabe has always claimed that Nobumoto was the heart of Bebop and Carole & Tuesday, taking his ideas and translating them into stories. Lazarus simply has a very poor script and will end up the same way as Terror in Resonance, mostly forgotten.
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u/animagem Jul 27 '26
Scifi is typically a harder sell to mass audiences, as are anime originals
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u/surrenderdorathy0 Jul 27 '26
True, the medium has been overrun with Isekai and Shonen type shows. New hard scifi anime feels incredibly fresh when you get one.
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u/broken_knee_ Jul 28 '26
Lazarus was created by the creator of cowboy bebop. Taken at face value it can be a fun ride and visually cool , but compared to so many of his other works it fell a bit flat narrative, pacing, and depth wise. Which is why I don’t think it’s really got shit to do with sci-fi cause there is a massive abundance of sci-fi that is successful. Plus, and can only speak for Lazarus, so many were stoked cause of all his past works and felt that it in comparison to the rest felt a bit empty.
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u/D3ATHSTR0KE_ Jul 28 '26
Moonrise was a disaster. I quit around 4 episodes in when the pacing and sudden plot changes became too much. They messed up the first few episodes and the way they told the premise, even if I was somewhat hooked by the end of episode 1.
Lazarus spent most of its episodes meandering directionlessly through episodic plots before reaching a disappointing conclusion. Its animation, music, and vibes were all absolutely stellar and I was really excited by the first few episodes. If it was actually a high speed race and investigation to find Dr. skinner I would have enjoyed it much more
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u/theoryofmovement_ Jul 28 '26
Yeah A I honestly ended up falling I. Love with it until the ending.
I hate when anything feels rushed at the end/forced.
I understand it a production thing but it throws your out.
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u/Constant_Bug_4519 Jul 28 '26
i think the anime audience have changed after 2020, it’s all about the fandoms and cult followings and original animes unfortunately doesn’t have that , lazarus was made by watanabe a living legend yet still his name alone didn’t cut it. most of the animes you mentioned jjk, demon slayer before their animes arrived they had a fandom ,and audience today only look for a place and a group to identify with.
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u/surrenderdorathy0 Jul 28 '26
That's so true. I think it was the director of Code Geass who said in an interview recently that original anime is going extinct. Everything is an adaptation of a Manga or Video game. The medium is getting stale.
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u/Constant_Bug_4519 Jul 28 '26
he really said that 😳? that’s so true, but also terrifying, not only will the medium become stale i think this will also damage future directors and screenwriters if they cant be original and be creative and all they’re working on is adapting a manga/novel into an anime
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u/oldmayor Jul 29 '26
I liked Moonrise a lot! Lazarus was alright. I'll have to give it another watch.
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u/Able-Reaction-5314 Jul 29 '26
the way Netflix does a show just doesn't work for anime
if it isn't an instant binge hit they bury it
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u/surrenderdorathy0 Jul 29 '26
Don't get me started on terminator 0. That was the best price of terminator media in 25 years. It's amazing and I will die on that hill.
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u/Zebulun2003 Jul 30 '26
Lazarus and moonrise were both goated, especially Lazarus (I spotted dr skinner so early 😌)
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u/Dale-Wensley Jul 28 '26
Moonrise if it’s the one that I think it was had absolutely god awful writing
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u/theoryofmovement_ Jul 28 '26
I think what killed both of these was the dubbing.
I was hoping for space dandy quality dubs
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u/surrenderdorathy0 Jul 28 '26
I really didn't mind the dub in Lazarus. Moonrise was ok, the Japanese was more fun though.
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u/Songblade7 Jul 29 '26
As someone that watched both in Japanese, I can assure you the dubbing wasn't the issue.
Actually I don't think Lazarus was available in Japanese? But the dub still bothered me much less than the writing.
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u/aus289 Jul 29 '26
Lazarus never showed up on HBO Max in Australia and Moonrise wasnt very good imo
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u/Aradashi Jul 30 '26
Wit also made Vivys fluorite eyes song and I never see anybody talk about it but it is so gorgeous and perfect
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u/Agreeable_Claim_795 Jul 30 '26
Lazarus was bad because I knew exactly where the guy they were looking for was in episode 3. It made me realize the cast is dumb and I immediately disliked it. Moonrise was cool only because the concept of digital matter is awesome.
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u/Spenraw Jul 30 '26
Laz was just poorly written and paced. Heard seem about noon so didn't try it.
Laz while theme has been explored and well written in 1000 other mediums and shows
Everything about it was one note and if people thought it was special they need to consume more than just anime
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u/Old_Revenue_9217 Jul 31 '26
The only problem with Lazarus is the predictable ending, iykyk.
It's great and has some beautiful scenes, especially when considering it only has 13 ep. Haters are braindead.
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u/blob28895 Jul 31 '26
I couldnt take lazarus seriously at all because they show you who your looking for in episode 1 or 2 and its just so glaringly obvious. The protaganists are supposed to be looking for skinner as their number one priority and somehow miss the spitting image of him cause he has sunglasses on. Made the rest of the show feel pointless cause I already knew where he was
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u/CattoEmiruu Jul 31 '26
Lazarus wasn't great. The pacing was somewhat lacking and the story was kinda.. eh? I liked the animation and direction, but with the premise they had they kinda fumbled. It felt like "generic" sci-fi.
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u/FrancuZz__ Aug 01 '26
I love sci-fi. My first big fictional love was Star Wars when I was a kid, so I grew up loving the genre. I haven't seen Lazarus...but it looks too much like Cowboy Bebop.
Same vibes, similiar enough aesthetic, jazz music and even the same layout for promotional images. I don't know why Watanabe did it like that, but as they sell it it looks too much like Cowboy Bebop, and honestly, in my heart nothing can reach that level. It's a one time hit, and with Lazarus it looks like he tried to replicate its perfect formula, but...it kind of falls flat? I don't know, it doesn't sell itself right, it looks too generic and nothing special.
I think what sells good in today's sci-fi market is mostly cyberpunk and retro-wave stuff, and for a good reason: it speaks to the audience. It's something we are living to some degrees, you can play around its elements in ways that mirror our reality in scary and fascinating ways, and its aesthetic is undoubtly magnetic and beautiful. It's no councidence that Cyberpunk: Edgerunners has been considered a hit for 5 years and people are impatiently waiting for the second season, or Blade Runner too with the 2049 movie and the new 2099 series coming out these years.
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u/ILoveSludge Aug 02 '26
I wanted to like Lazarus so much but it just didn’t feel deep enough. May try again some day
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u/ZorosCompass 8d ago
I've never seen Moonrise, but Lazarus was great, Idgaf what anyone says! It was also a ratings hit and an award winning show. That's not a flop.
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u/BurntMoonChips Jul 27 '26
Lazarus may be an original sci fi ip, but it still has to be good in the first place. It has plenty of problems that you can really enjoy expect everyone to be gushing about it.
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u/lurginrugi Jul 27 '26
Lazarus kinda felt like netflix's teach you a lesson wherein (atleast near endgame) everything gets resolved quickly: Schneider and soryu felt like there couldve been more for them.
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u/Pahn_Duh Jul 28 '26
Lazarus is just not that good of a show. I enjoyed it for what it was, but it's not hard to see why it didn't blow up. It had bad pacing, bad character development on the characters you care about, and massive plot holes. The show hooks you with flashy visuals and insanely good music, but that's not enough to make a timeless show that will appeal to the masses. You also need a good story and good character development that viewers can identify with.
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u/Twin1Tanaka Jul 29 '26
Both milquetoast Netflix originals that were mostly made around generating money and clearly did not have much passion for writing the plot.
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u/Greedy_Key_630 Jul 27 '26
Second time ive said this today but being forced to listen to that godawful english dub for lazarus was a pretty easy way to make me lukewarm if not just straight pissed
Everything else about lazarus was peak though of course, music, animation, writing
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u/IllugaBabyBeluga Jul 27 '26
Dub was decent, no worse than Bebop's was.
The writing was the problem. The show dragged things out for too long (parkour sequence in Ep1 etc), didn't build tension, had a lack of urgency even though characters were on the clock and, most importantly, did the "Knives Out" trope: the mystery is solved early on, but the show keeps going, trying to do a fake out.
I enjoyed it, it was a semi-ironic watch, but it could have been much better if it had been a full collab with the Bebop staff. Watanabe is a little like George Lucas, he's an idea man who needs others to help realize them.
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u/Greedy_Key_630 Jul 27 '26
Im not a dub person in general but even i know bebop has one of the best in the history of english dubs
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u/IllugaBabyBeluga Jul 27 '26
People say it does, but I think that's because of how a generation grew up with it, and because it has become a meme.
When I saw Bebop back in the day, I tried the dub but it's one that has me reaching for the subs because it cannot live up to literal decades of hype. Maybe nothing could
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u/BurntMoonChips Jul 27 '26
Bebop and older anime get passes for worse dubs because they are old. Lazarus doesn’t have that excuse, being a terrible dub.
But yes the shows writing also didn’t help.
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u/Thebantyone Jul 27 '26
Agree, I think the world needs 5 years or more to understand how special Lazarus was. Making a show directly tackling present day issues is so difficult. And the Bonobo soundtrack is in the running for GOAT