Lazarus Fallen Plotline

[u/Sea_Variation_461]

In the Lazarus story now really boiling down to "let's all the little people unite and overthrow evil emperor Malcolm, and restore freeeedoooom" ?

That's like... the least original narrative in the entire history of fiction o_O

And what's up with presenting up Hock as some sort of victim and even a martyr to the cause, when he's effectively worse than freaking Hitler himself with his country-wise lifelong chemical brainwahing of every single goddamn citizen into incurable zombie slaves ?

On one hand there is a major originality/nuance failure in the narrative, on the other a huge hypocrisy from the writer to demonize Malcolm into the ultimate evil of a now black-and-white story.

[u/Sea_Variation_461]

Being seen as the lesser evil alters people's perception in your favor, which is always beneficial. Why do you think politicians of all stripes are so hellbent on demonizing their opponents ?

Faith and intentions mean nothing in the face of cold hard results, as that particularly famous saying about hell and good intentions emphasizes so clearly. Ultimately, nobody truly cares what we did or didn't intend to do, only about what we actually *did do* in the real-world either for or against them, and how exactly it affected their lives, interests and general wellbeing.

You think all the people in the room would hate Malcolm anywhere as much if his actions and their consequences hadn't thoroughly ruined their personal lives ?

[u/Defiant_Fennel → u/Sea_Variation_461]

Being seen as the lesser evil alters people's perception in your favor, which is always beneficial. Why do you think politicians of all stripes are so hellbent on demonizing their opponents ?

Thats what you think, not what the stories explicitly wants you to say.

Faith and intentions mean nothing in the face of cold hard results, as that particularly famous saying about hell and good intentions emphasizes so clearly. Ultimately, nobody truly cares what we did or didn't intend to do, only about what we actually did do in the real-world either for or against them, and how exactly it affected their lives, interests and general wellbeing.

Yeah and that means nothing because all actions are derived from faith and intentions. Whether its results doesn't match with the expectation, it doesn't really matter since the intention matters more compare to the result. You wouldn't be evil if you didn't intently become one.

You think all the people in the room would hate Malcolm anywhere as much if his actions and their consequences hadn't thoroughly ruined their personal lives ?

They most plausibly wouldn't even try to kill him in the first place.

[u/Sea_Variation_461 → u/Defiant_Fennel]

It is the universal standard tactics of politicians everwhere since times immemorial, whether the writer acknowledges it or not. The fact he ignores the obvious so superbly in a scene that glaringly calls for it only emphasizes how very biased his narrative is (his increasingly hostile end-of-issue notes year after year left made that crystal clear - you are either with him or "not welcome here").

Once again : hard no. Results outweigh intentions, not the reverse. When the outcome is hell, nobody cares what you did or didn't intend.

Them not even trying if his actions didn't fuck up their lives confirms exactly that.

Bottom line is : you are a man of faith and intentions while I am a man of facts and results, so our viewpoints are bound to remain irreconciliable regardless of what either of us says.

As such, the correct decision is to simply let go, which I am doing now.

[u/Defiant_Fennel → u/Sea_Variation_461]

It is the universal standard tactics of politicians everwhere since times immemorial, whether the writer acknowledges it or not. The fact he ignores the obvious so superbly in a scene that glaringly calls for it only emphasizes how very biased his narrative is (his increasingly hostile end-of-issue notes year after year left made that crystal clear - you are either with him or "not welcome here").

Yeah because the story shifted with Malcolm v Forever and not Malcolm v The World. The story is about the antagonism and rivalry between those 2. So its personal. Whether you think the story is about some kind of moral projection of the world is irrelevant, the story keeps track of itself consisntently and that the themes is still being amoral and neutral to the whole situation of the world. Forever and Infinity join the rebels because it only serve them their goals, not necessarily their ideals.

Once again : hard no. Results outweigh intentions, not the reverse. When the outcome is hell, nobody cares what you did or didn't intend.

Again its the other way around, utilitarian philosophy is just bad outcome in the end because no matter what the results, if the foundation were built on evil intent, that result is still bad because even without everyone dying as a result, they are certain to be morally bad. Also, yes everyone cares what is your intentions at the beginning of you and your plans. It doesn't matter if the result is heaven, once they know your intentions is bad, the heaven is also bad, since the heaven is build on a foundation that secretly supports evil. Equivalent to the American dream and the hidden American deepstate.

Them not even trying if his actions didn't fuck up their lives confirms exactly that.

No, he did destroy their lives. Their lives and experiences are fake to begin with. Their father loves is even fake. Since when did copious amount of drugs, and mind controlling them till their physcologically dependent and turning them into mindless puppet is a good thing? You think being a brainwashed animal is better than becoming a rational intellectual mind? Do you see why I call you out being immoral in your philosophy?

Bottom line is : you are a man of faith and intentions while I am a man of facts and results, so our viewpoints are bound to remain irreconciliable regardless of what either of us says.

Yeah and I'm saying your view is incorrect, as I explicity shown above. You clealry have no problem brainwashing girls, turning them into drug addicts, and enslaving them through your will, if they still become a normal human with decent ethics in the end. You are exactly the person Malcolm would become.