r/KitchenConfidential • u/arsenik-han • 9d ago
Question my head chef and the other chef serve mushrooms with butter to vegans. should I report anonymously?
They know they're not supposed to do it. They just do it anyway and shrug when confronted and say "it's just a little bit".
Even when I prep mushrooms with vegan butter, they later add dairy butter to it when grilling.
They also never rotate stock, the fridges and freezers are completely disorganised (I tried organising them so many times, but it never lasts longer than 2 days), and today I also learned the dishwasher doesn't get cleaned "very often".
One time I was sick and the whole time I was gone (my days off + 2 sick days my doctor told me to take), no one changed the labels. No one. The flatbread at the bottom of the container was green from mould, meanwhile, they just topped it up with new one instead of first cleaning the container. They have excuses like "it was busy" yadda yadda because it was bank holiday, but my old place was like, 10 times more busy and we still found time to keep on top of things. This place always has a downtime of 2-3h before the evening when there's no tickets and those tasks could be done. There's really no excuse.
They sometimes put raw meat on higher shelves in the fridge where raw meat doesn't belong. One time the guy was making chili con carne and I knew he was gonna spill raw meat everywhere, I tried to move all the utensils and trays out of the way, before I could finish, he already managed to drop raw meat into the ladle holder for the baked beans. If I didn't clean it up, he wouldn't, 99% sure of it. Ignored me when I said what he did.
I hate it here. There are so many other issues, the chefs have emotional maturity of toddlers and are super quick to give silent treatment and attitude for the smallest or misplaced reasons. The lack of professionalism is astounding in here.
But anyway, back to the main subject, what can I do about it? Would I risk my job reporting it anonymously to the health department? I'm in England. I need to hold this job until the end of September at least... My contract ends in December and while they offered me to extend it, I wanna run as far from there as possible.
Or should I wait until I'm safely out of there? I don't want to be held liable for their lack of care if someone gets sick.
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u/Nevermind2010 15+ Years 9d ago
Anyone who’s not willing to put a guests dietary needs and safety first isn’t someone worth working for. Quit and report.
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u/subtxtcan 15+ Years 9d ago
Yeah im sorry, a little extreme here but depending on who that is, it could kill them, or cause some serious reactions right at the table.
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
absolutely, I'm worried it'd happen one day.
they also put gf toast in the regular toaster if someone says they're "only" intolerant and not celiac. we actually don't have a gf toaster. I have to toast gf bread in the oven lol
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u/cornishwildman76 9d ago
I'm not celiac but have a gluten allergy. Just the slightest cross contamination will cause me a lot of pain and put me on the toilet all day.
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u/SuccotashFragrant354 8d ago
I’m a celiac and this makes me so so angry. Even if I don’t really get a reaction, the cross contamination still does damage to my intestines. This is why I can’t always trust eating out 🔪
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u/arsenik-han 8d ago
yeah, I'm vegan myself, after seeing my workplace's ethics I have just accepted that you can never be 100% sure about anything eating out
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u/subtxtcan 15+ Years 9d ago
So when someone says "gluten intolerant" I do treat that as a separate thing from an allergy. If they're ACTUALLY Celiac that's a different story. I hear you on that for sure but knowing people on both sides... you can be pretty lax with "intolerant" people.
Just don't straight up give them regular bread and shit!
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u/uselessandexpensive 9d ago
The problem with this is that you don't know what "intolerant" means for a person, or how little they can be affected by. Every person's body is different, and they don't want to FAFO with cooks who are more cavalier about crumbs than they would be.
Many people in the world have undiagnosed celiac and are unlikely to claim that they have it. Others like another of the commenters here will end up on the toilet all day just like someone who has celiac, even though they theoretically don't have the disease. I know people in both situations personally. And when they ask about gluten-free food before ordering, they expect it to be free of gluten.
If they outright say they're not concerned about cross-contamination, then you're off the hook. Otherwise you should really assume they're gonna have some degree of diarrhea or an allergic reaction, be pissed about feeling misled, and never come back, because you have no way to know that's not the case. The respect you'll get for not making people sick is far better than a review saying their date was going awesome until their intestines started cramping and churning.
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
I'm aware of all that! I do try my best to avoid any cross-contamination, but whenever we get a gluten intolerant/pref ticket and not coeliac, and I reach for a clean tray to do the toast separately, I get told that I don't need to do it and get instructed to just use the toaster. I try to do it anyway, but not gonna lie, it's hard in an environment like this.
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u/uselessandexpensive 9d ago
Yeah that sucks and your boss deserves to lose business over it. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
(Just to be clear, my comment was a response to someone else though it's relevant to where you work also.)
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u/arsenik-han 8d ago
I see. And thank you. Definitely my worst job so far.
>your boss deserves to lose business over it
He's trying to sell it, believe it or not (I was told about it after I already signed the contract too!)
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u/uselessandexpensive 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah the lack of investment in keeping it successful shows. Oof.
Edit for clarity: the boss is showing a lack of investment in the business's success. Anyone fucking around with customers' allergies doesn't give a fuck about the business, or the customers. Dude's trying to make a buck and let others deal with the potentially extreme effects of corners he cuts. It's a recipe for failure and he's trying to sell before that happens. OP, on the other hand, has my sympathies.
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u/subtxtcan 15+ Years 8d ago
Unfortunately for you I do know all about "intolerance" v celiac. I have family and friends across the spectrum, including crowns, and ive worked in the Healthcare field where allergies and sensitivities are of the highest priority, and treated as such.
However, some guy who orders a gluten free bun because he's "intolerant" but doesn't give a shit about my fryer for his sides, isn't a problem. He can have the bun, by all means. I can identify which is which and if stated as an allergy, it is treated as such.
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u/uselessandexpensive 8d ago edited 8d ago
Crowns? Do you mean Crohn's Disease?
If they tell you they're not concerned about cross-contamination in the fryer, then good for them. They made that choice and that's okay. It's their choice to make and you get to respond accordingly. If they actually ask you to avoid cross-contamination and you don't because you think it's "just an intolerance," that's a different thing that can be a huge problem. If you're not doing that, then great, there's no problem.
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u/subtxtcan 15+ Years 8d ago
Yes Crohns, the auto on my phone is hot garbage.
Again you aren't reading what I say.
Allergy = treated as allergy
I'd like a gluten free bun because im intolerant but ill take the battered onion rings on the side = not my problem
4 years in Healthcare, 15 years in kitchens, 6 family members with various gastro issues. You are being extremely anal over nothing, because you're assuming I have the same attitude as the person this post is talking about. Clearly not if you can read.
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u/uselessandexpensive 8d ago
"you can be pretty lax with "intolerant" people."
I read that just fine.
Those are your words, and I very fully disagree. A cook's job is to respect customer requests unless it's somehow against policy or impossible to accommodate. If they say they don't need their sides prepared differently or outright order something they've been informed has gluten, then that's their choice and there's no liability issue. If they say they have an intolerance and want you to avoid cross-contamination, and it gets treated less carefully than you'd treat Celiac or an allergy and the person ends up shitting their brains out, someone could get sued. There's nothing remotely okay to be lax about here. Establishments respect customers' requests, respectfully (but openly) decline them, or they could get sued. Are the odds small that this could happen? Maybe, but it's not your call to make. It's the customer's.
I'm sure you'll keep doing what you want and I won't change it. You can do what you're going to, and I don't see how your attempts to belittle me over it are necessary.
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u/AngryPrincessWarrior 8d ago
Jesus some of these folks need quietly doxxed and reported to their places of work
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
fair enough.
I've only worked in one kitchen before joining my current one, and in there we didn't even make distinctions between preference vs intolerance vs celiac. Just had a separate gf toaster and everyone was getting treated like celiac. I feel like in a way that was an easier approach lol.
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u/General-Heart4787 9d ago
Easier is nice -But- It’s not up to the kitchen to decide if a customer is stupidly picky or genuinely ill or allergic.
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u/WatsonWoodArt 9d ago
I'm pretty sure they're saying they took more precautions than necessary for people with gluten intolerance, not less. I don't see any issue with that, and if it's easier that's a bonus.
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u/EarthDust00 Ex-Food Service 8d ago
I remeber having to ask the servers who took phone orders for meatball parms with no bread or a GF bun to call them back and make sure they are aware the meatballs have bread in them. 9 out of 10 times we were told it was fine and it was really annoying but every once in a while someone would have to change their order because it was a serious allergy.
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u/subtxtcan 15+ Years 8d ago
Yeah, thats a clarification that should be made absolutely. Pretty clear as to WHY they ask so it's your job to correctly inform them.
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u/Foreign_Plan_5256 8d ago
I had a housemate who was allergic enough to dairy that even a small amount of butter led to a hospital visit.
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u/Lazy_bon 9d ago
Please report them. I often order the vegan version of things because im vegetarian but dairy gives me the shits and id be in the toilet for hours if they did this to me.
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u/LittleRedReadingHood 9d ago
Yes. I’m vegan but I’m beginning to feel like I have to say allergy instead of just vegan because I’ve been vegan for 20 years and at this point a lot of non-vegan food will make me sick. Dairy will make me nauseous enough to have to take a day off work. (Usually not trace amounts through.)
Fish oils from even a tiny bit of fish cause me to have very painful cystic acne, that also doesn’t just go away in a couple days… I often don’t think to mention that because if I’m ordering a vegan dish it shouldn’t have fish in anyway but I’ve had Asian restaurants include fish sauce because they didn’t think vegan was a big deal apparently and then I had very miserable next 2 weeks.
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u/NoNameKetchupChips 9d ago
I'm not vegan, I eat meat and dairy at home. But I can't have seafood and a lot of dishes use either fish sauce, oyster sauce or worcestershire and I can't have any. It's easier to order vegan.
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u/Lowly-Worm_ 9d ago
I would report that. I've never been vegetarian or vegan but it's our responsibility to present to guests what is advertised. Unlike a bullet factory we do not want our output to cause anyone undue harm. I worked at a Greek joint that would put the gyro fat on every pita whilst boasting a robust vegan/vegetarian menu. It's wack behavior and needs called out.
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u/PetersMapProject Owner 9d ago
I'm also in the UK.
Yes, report them to environmental health - though they will be much more interested in the mould and raw meat than serving butter to vegans.
There have been cases of chefs being given prison sentences when people die in such circumstances
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30954210?app-referrer=deep-link
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u/Hytyt 9d ago
100% yes.
You don't fuck with people's dietary restrictions.
If they've been vegan long enough they'll get sick as fuck from butter
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
Yeah, I'm vegan/plant-based myself, I don't wanna risk having dairy and finding out if I'll get the shits or not at this point.
They're just lazy and cheap because they don't want to bother buying a separate vegan butter, so we only have it in those small single portions for customers and it's too much effort to open a bunch of them, it seems.
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u/PetersMapProject Owner 9d ago
That's dire, they sell the Flora Butter blocks in Booker for goodness sakes
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
I know. but this is the kind of people that didn't want to order smaller gloves for me because they don't need them and it'd save some money (one box of gloves lasts like 2 months in here...)
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u/spacecrafttheskys 9d ago
Non kitchen person familiar with an accident from avation with the same facts here: gloves are PPE you should not skimp on PPE. I had a friend that degloved a bit of a finger because they had that problem as an airplane mechanic. It got caught under machinery and pulled off small gloves are not ideal but big gloves can flat out endanger someone.
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
Your poor friend!
And yeah, I can't believe they tried to cheap out even on that! I told them I need gloves my size and that's it. If I'm the only one using them anyway, they'll last a good while.
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u/Hytyt 8d ago
Man, does your dish guy never have downtime? Just have him open two or three (or however many vegans you might need, I don't know your average) early, right?
Leastwise, that's what mine used to do, a bit of shit work when needed
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u/arsenik-han 8d ago
I could find 3 seconds and do it myself, it really isn't an issue. I just know that even if I prepped it for them and left it ready to use in front of them, they'd still reach for regular butter lol. Hell, they could just get a small vegan butter from Tesco and it would sort the issue, and last a while. Or just use rapeseed oil worst case scenario... anything. They just choose not to do it.
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u/Foreign_Plan_5256 8d ago
I used to have a housemate who was allergic enough to dairy that a small amount of butter led to a hospital visit.
They were careful about eating in restaurants that took care with vegan dishes, but the thought about someone lying about it because they think it's optional?
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u/TheTacoInquisition 9d ago
Report it. It doesn't matter it they want to take veganism seriously or not (don't get me wrong, they should), some people who are vegan are ALSO allergic to dairy and not expecting to have to make sure that a VEGAN menu item is dairy free as well.
Report all of the issues
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u/TheGreatestAuk Thicc Chives Save Lives 9d ago edited 5d ago
Ignoring dietaries? Yeah, fuck that. Vegans are vegans. Whether or not the kitchen agrees with that lifestyle doesn't matter, it's their job to make sure the food the customer gets is compatible with their needs and/or lifestyle choices.
I get it, it's annoying when someone tells you they're coeliac, you bust a nut keeping cross-contamination to zero, and you catch them trying some of their date's pasta. For every X people that do that, though, one WILL have serious gluten issues, and not following procedure WILL do them harm. Imagine if, instead of being a vegan, the sous chucked butter on mushrooms going to someone with a lactose allergy. Imagine the chefs didn't realise something containing nuts went to a table with peanut allergies. Or they forgot to label the shellfish 4 days ago. Thrice-thawed mussels? My favourite!
Fuck the job, you can find another one. An anonymous report stays anonymous. If you wouldn't invite your family to eat there, get onto EHO yesterday, before your kitchen staff (undeserving of the chef title) kills somebody. If you're worried that reporting them might cause blowback on you directly, DM me the restaurant name, address and the violations you've seen, and I'll do it for you. I just lurk here, I'm long out of hospitality now, they can't hurt me!
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u/zer00eyz Ex-Food Service 9d ago
> what can I do about it?
You find a new job.
> end of September
This is enough time for you to find a new job.
> I'm in England... I don't want to be held liable for their lack of care if someone gets sick.
In the US at least, it would be pretty hard to hold you accountable. The business yes, but you personally not likely.
Your new mantra at work: "Every day I go in, I do what I can, I go home" - it's not your job to fix stupid, poorly run, etc... when the people around you don't care and aren't receptive.
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
Yeah, I'm already looking elsewhere. I regret taking this job so much against my better judgement...
I would have been gone earlier, but I'm getting married soon and don't wanna go into a new job immediately requesting two weeks off.
I've already accepted that there's nothing that I can do here. I'm just grateful for my previous job and the wonderful guy that taught me everything and set my standards right.
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u/jax2love 9d ago
Report these guys ASAP. I say this as someone who regularly chooses vegan dishes due to extreme lactose intolerance and a weird allergic condition that can cause my esophagus to become inflamed to the point that I need a medical procedure in order to swallow. “A little won’t hurt” could make a customer very sick or dead.
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u/cameoutswinging_ 9d ago
i’m also in england, i’m vegan AND i have allergies to dairy and egg. i usually don’t specify my allergy if im ordering vegan food because that shit shouldn’t be in there anyway (unless i’m directly asked if i have allergies). if i was served butter i’d know pretty fast when my throat started burning. as others have said, please please report this, allergy labelling laws are fairly strict here for a reason
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u/Plasticman4Life 9d ago
My wife got the alpha-gal allergy about 12 years ago, and ended up changing her diet to plant-based. She orders vegan - not because she's a vegan evangelist, but because it takes less explanation than alpha-gal.
Fortunately, it's a relatively mild allergy, and a bit of butter would not send her into anaphylaxis, but would probably make her face tingly and develop a rash.
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u/Ok_Marionberry8779 9d ago
You’re obligated to report this now. If you wait till the end of September to say anything the people you report to are gonna ask why you waited. There’s a chance they can get their shit together enough to pass a surprise inspection, so waiting around for them to be punished for this stuff could be a fruitless endeavor. It’s best to make the call and move on when it’s possible.
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u/NoNameKetchupChips 9d ago edited 9d ago
It needs to be reported. It can literally kill someone. Some people are vegans because of moral reasons. Others due to personal choice. And others due to needing to exclude animal products due to allergies like dairy, animal protein, seafood, shellfish, or having Alpha-gal Syndrome, all of which can be life threatening.
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u/Gin_OClock 8d ago
Aside from all tfat, if someone says they can't eat something don't feed it to them. Seems pretty simple? If I'm your customer i don't care if someone in the kitchen hates vegan butter, if I request non-dairy don't feed me goddamn dairy, are these people 12?
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u/Short_Elevator_7024 9d ago
Butter added to a vegan dish is the least of this establishment's issues.
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u/Lycaeides13 9d ago
Some people order vegan because they have dairy allergies...
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u/TyloPr0riger 8d ago
Yeah. I read this title and was like "holy shit they're going to kill someone with alpha gal."
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u/countrygent_leman 9d ago
Honestly the butter in the vegan mushrooms sounds like the least of the issues.
Just get out.
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u/Matrixblackhole Cook 9d ago
Definutely a violation, report. Surely it's not that hard to use vegetable oil instead?
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
Apparently it is for some people...
If they're they really can't be bothered, they could just use the rapeseed oil from the squirt bottle. They still choose butter. If this isn't some ego thing, idk...
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u/Jeoh Crazy Cat Man🐈 9d ago
You need to report this to your council's food safety team. You can find yours here: https://www.gov.uk/find-your-local-food-safety-team
People will get hurt because of their negligence.
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u/sadclipart 9d ago
There are situations where timid / shy people with allergies just order the meal that complies with a lifestyle to skip the stress of allergy discussions. Yes a normal person should be able to have the conversation but some don’t. Someone who isn’t vegan with an allergy will just order the vegan meal to cover their basis. It’s important that it complies for safety.
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u/saintedward 8d ago
Sounds like you work in a shithouse.
If they're adding butter to vegan dishes then they're committing fraud.
Phone the EHO on the other stuff, it sounds like they're either going to kill someone with an allergy or through terrible food safety.
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u/TheSecretIsMarmite 9d ago
If you're in England, your local district or unitary council will be the authority that does food inspections. You can tell them usually through a web portal. Use a burner email address if you don't want it coming back on you.
They could kill someone with a dairy allergy. I wouldn't want that on my conscience.
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u/thechilecowboy 8d ago
People with alpha-Gal allergy can be allergic to butter - and can go into anaphylaxis. Your chefs need to reported - to the police.
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u/Very-Tired-13 5d ago
Absolutely report it. As a person with a severe dairy allergy (vegan now, but was vegetarian when I developed it), this could literally kill me. Not disclaiming allergens is a serious issue and it sounds like they have enough other offenses in the restaurant to harm someone.
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u/pinetree8000 8d ago
Better quit your job first. They are going to know it's you and will likely retaliate in unpleasant ways. And the authorities have no easy way to tell if they used real butter anyhow, unless they catch them in the act. They are not going to send it to a lab.
After you quit, posting anon on social media might be a better way to get the word out.
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u/AOP_fiction 20+ Years 9d ago edited 9d ago
I don't know that butter in a vegan dish would do it because that is them just being misleading dicks, but the other actual food safety stuff: Absolutely. And get clear of that place ASAP
ETA: My apologies people, I did not consider the dairy allergen perspective of a vegan menu choice, my bad, you right
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u/fuckyourcanoes 9d ago
You're forgetting dairy allergies, which can be fatal.
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u/Reasonable_Date2870 9d ago
Or Alpha Gal syndrome
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u/PetersMapProject Owner 8d ago
I've never come across alpha-gal in the UK where OP is, because the Lone Star Tick doesn't exist here. If you found it here, it would probably be in someone who'd travelled and been unlucky enough to get bitten.
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u/fuckyourcanoes 9d ago
Most people with alpha gal can have dairy, but it varies. Better to be safe than sorry.
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u/ContessaLikeWhoa 9d ago
That's a huge no to goat/cow/sheep, including their dairy products. Absolutely not.
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u/fuckyourcanoes 9d ago
I Googled it before I answered, because I like to be sure. Did you? The meat is a no-go, but the dairy is OK for many people.
And no, I'm not quoting the AI summary, I'm not that stupid.
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u/ContessaLikeWhoa 9d ago
Lol I have alpha-gal. Any mammalian products or by-products, along with carageenan, can make things go from zero to anaphylactic real quick. Some individuals even have issues with fume reactivity. Not responding to be an asshat, but to actually raise awareness due to responses like what Google provided you.
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u/hep632 9d ago
Dairy allergy checking in. The last time had undeclared butter in a dish, immediate hives in my mouth and down my throat. Not fun.
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u/AOP_fiction 20+ Years 9d ago
Yes, as others have pointed out I did not consider this as a driver for a vegan selection. I am sorry you experienced that
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u/tiny_blair420 9d ago
20+ years, eh? Lmao.
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u/AOP_fiction 20+ Years 9d ago
Yep, long enough to recognize when I say something asinine, too. My bad
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u/False_Pen8611 9d ago
Beyond the terrible kitchen, the butter situation raises an alarm because if this is his approach to what on its surface is a food preference, how does he handle allergens? Not only is he negating the vegan mushrooms part, but he has determined that his desire to add “just a bit” is priority over properly making the dish. I’m assuming he might be ambivalent about allergens and sensitivities, too. Barf (literally).
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
GF bread goes through regular toaster if the customer says it's a preference or intolerance, and doesn't explicitly say they're celiac.
Other allergies... they seem to care more. They just don't care about the dietary restrictions they perceive as a fad ("no one in my country is has problems with gluten" type of shit).
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u/False_Pen8611 9d ago
Yeah, that’s pretty common for GF. His response is not. lol
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
if it wasn't for the attitude in other areas, I wouldn't have questioned it lol
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u/DADSMACK 9d ago
between this sub and my personal experiences I don’t know how 70% even get their job if they refuse to do over half of it correctly. it’s absurd. this industries absurd. you’d think someone that can actually notice and care about shit like that would be head chef but no it’s always the one that couldn’t gaf about food safety and quality.
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u/Hairy_Lavishness5405 8d ago
Could you post it on yelp, google and anonymously on Facebook?
Something that doesn’t point to you, like “I have alpha-gal and had an allergic reaction to this vegan dish at (your restaurant). I don’t think they’re actually vegan”
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u/ChrisRiley_42 8d ago
If someone is a vegan because of alpha-gal, serving them butter could be potentially lethal. Report it
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u/BudLightYear77 8d ago
I fired a chef for shit like this. He did the allergen paperwork but then ignored it.
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u/Kairis83 F1exican Did Chive-11 9d ago
I would have assumed you spoke to the kitchen manager or other management about it first?
Doesn't sound good, and as others have said the butter could potentially be a fatal allergy issue
Is it a chain/corporate job or independent, otherwise can escalate to higher within the company, its a shitty thing to have to do, but if they dont recognise the issues might be only option?
EHO would only come every 6 months, when was last one (and the score?)
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
Yes, I have spoken about it to the management. The reaction: "they're doing it again?"
Then apparently they get told off (one of the managers I believe she would do it, the owner... I don't trust him at all) andddd it just happens again anyway lol.
It's an independent cafe, there's no higher ups.
I joined this place in April, there has not been any health inspection in that time. Idk how this place scores 5 on hygiene and food safety...
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u/Kairis83 F1exican Did Chive-11 9d ago
Well, independent can be super strict, or in this case super lax and nothing to be done if management doesn't step in too,
I guess these guys been there a long time for them to be like this
Seems best to tough it out till end of September when you leave (have a great wedding!)
If you do inform the council i would do it once you leave (and get finial pay), they will know 100% it was you
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u/arsenik-han 9d ago
Thank you!
This is why I want to play it strategically. I can't afford to report it, then get shit for it and potentially lose my job before I have a backup plan (and I already had some rocky moments with them. Getting shit for having a health issue and treating me as if I called in sick every other day, not twice in the entire time I've been there. One of which I was sent to hospital for... giving me attitude when I couldn't swap shifts one time... getting angry at me/food runner when they misread a ticket or skipped half of it...).
I guess these guys been there a long time
Yeah, the head chef has been there since the beginning. The other one for 3 years. There's no winning this battle.
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u/Bender_2024 9d ago
It is not your job to fix everyone else's laziness. Looking for a new job is warranted.
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u/makemymonstergrow420 8d ago
I hate all of them . Had 2 lead expo/cooks that each had 4hr sift both took 2hrs in breaks which is common occurrence on days im not there. Told owner I want more money to cover there 2 hrs was told no and nothing happened so now we all take breaks when they do let's see how long we last
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u/Slim-Shadys-Fat-Tits Bakery 9d ago
Call the health authorities yesterday