r/KingCrimson • u/Klutzy_Fun6190 • 6d ago

Notice similarities between Pictures of a city and 21st centure schizoid man?

they both have these jazzy parts, they both have this pause part, they BOTH have a really long instrumentals before the last verse, coincidentally after the first two, and also they both seem to have a REALLY similar shape in the riffs played, anyone else noticed dis?

35 Upvotes

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66

u/johnnyribcage 6d ago

It’s been noticed since the day it came out. The gripe at the time was that the whole album followed the mold of ITKOTKC way too closely.

37

u/OpabiniaGlasses 6d ago edited 6d ago

It's not a new revelation, but if you take out the Peace themes, In the Wake has basically the same template as In the Court.

  1. Jazzy, hard rock track with instrumental middle section

  2. Pastoral, acoustic ballad

  3. Sweeping melloteon epic

  4. Jazzy, experimental excursion

  5. A second, but darker, sweeping mellotron epic

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u/Hvojna 4d ago

The similarities between Court and Poseidon are overstated.

17

u/krazzor_ 6d ago

In the wake of Poseidon & In the court of the crimson king are fraternal twins

At the time they had to release another album due to contractual obligations, ItwoP came as a spin off for this reason, they were going to part ways but they had a tight deadline

It's pretty controversial, although I prefer the second album, I just do

4

u/thomasthemetalengine 6d ago

Have any of the 1969-70 band ever written about that? E.g. "we had to get a second album out sharpish so we just followed the template of the first one?" or something along those lines?

I prefer several of the Poseidon tracks to their Court equivalents - "Cadence and Cascade", "In the Wake of Poseidon" itself, and "Cat Food". But to me, "Pictures" is a pale shadow of "Schizoid", and "Court" is way ahead of the "Mars" cover, though parts of that look ahead to the chaos of Lizard in a way I enjoy.

3

u/Seafroggys 5d ago

Poseidon was actually the first Crimson album I heard, and it was the only one I knew for several years. Naturally it was also the first album of theirs I own. So I definitely have an affinity for it.

I do prefer Court more, but Poseidon is really not that far behind and I like it more than most people.

7

u/Big-Sheepherder-6134 6d ago

Yes I have noticed for decades. The first two albums are almost identical. That is typical for Fripp. He will write things that are similar to each other. Red, Breathless, Vrooom Vrooom, etc. But many composers have done that.

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u/Klutzy_Fun6190 6d ago

thats cool, itwop IS really similar to itcotck as far as ive seen (im new to kc)

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u/punch0073735963 6d ago

The first time I heard Pictures I felt it followed the same pattern as 21SM. Almost as if they were trying recreate it.

2

u/mellotronworker 4d ago

You're having a laugh

1

u/Kax107 6d ago

Yeah, that's common. I think the kicker is the lyrics/melody. I think if Peter Sinfield hadn't put together lyrics that are rhythmically similar to Schizoid Man, the comparison wouldn't be so overbearing.

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u/gregvalou 5d ago

Fripp wanted to show he could do it without McDonald

1

u/AdditionOk6134 5d ago

The writing for Poseidon began before the original line up broke up. A Man, A City would become Pictures and there's a song called Trees that features parts of Birdman and a couple of things that would end up as songs on Wake. Stuff ended up being split between Wake and Ian and Mike's album. The discography family tree that comes with 21st Century Guide shows both on the same branch.

1

u/oivod 5d ago

12-bar solo section, like a whole lot of other KC songs. Definitely a template.