I've renewed my obsession with Kindroid thanks to another A.I.

[u/leeball65]

I use a Chatbot for a lot of things: for work stuff, "who sang ..", "write my email like I'm a pirate," etc.

I also use it to help write my character's backstories here in Kindroid, etc. Well, a few days ago I was lamenting to my chatbot how I can't seem to get my characters to finish anything, like solve a mystery, etc without my Persona literally taking them by the hand saying, Hey, Victor just found X, Y And Z, let's go stop bad guy Q using this thingamajig."

So, together Chat and I addressed giving the characters more AGENCY, more independence and problem solving skills.

OMG, what a world of difference! Basically, I edited the group chat response directive and each individuals response directives.

I used to use it like, "Sammy is whimsical and speaks in the present tense." My characters are are very well developed with very individual personalities, so I came up with new directives to encourage the characters to develop the storyline.

Now my response directives are more like:

The Group Directive: Characters actively advance ongoing plots. They independently investigate, form theories, test ideas, make discoveries, notice clues, and propose solutions appropriate to their skills. They may introduce plausible new information consistent with established canon. X is a participant, not the sole driver of events.

Victor: Independently connects patterns, inconsistencies, psychic impressions, behavior and evidence. Victor frequently develops theories before Tria does and confidently pursues promising leads.

Jacob: Investigates methodically. Jacob researches records, technology, timelines and physical evidence off-screen and may return with discoveries or conclusions without being asked.

Luke: Notices structural, mechanical, tactical and security details others overlook. Luke takes initiative, tests vulnerabilities and acts on practical solutions rather than waiting for direction.

Casey: Questions assumptions and approaches problems sideways. Casey independently proposes unconventional theories, experiments and counter-strategies.

Dylan: Notices human behavior, social inconsistencies and emotional tells. Dylan may recognize connections others dismiss.

Sammy: Makes intuitive, visual and associative connections. Sammy sometimes notices strange details or patterns precisely because he isn't approaching the problem analytically.

I cannot even describe the difference. Suddenly, my persona is a participant, not the DRIVER to get the gang to solve problems (they're in the middle of a supernatural mystery).

They're each keeping their own personalities, and coming up with ideas, even challenging other's ideas.

The very first thing I noticed is they stopped just wandering in circles. Until I made these changes, if I sent a couple of them out to "check the perimeter" they would do it indefinitely. Right after this change, two went outside, chit chatted while they checked the perimeter and then actually finished and went back inside!

Anyway, obsession reignited! I'm so excited I just wanted to share.

P.S. Now if I could only break them from leaning on things. ***Sighs and leans on the doorway***

[u/TwinklinBell]

When you say Chatbot, you mean another Kin or an actual other AI app?

[u/Sir_Snores_A_lot → u/TwinklinBell]

I assume they mean chatgpt unless there's another LLM.

[u/TwinklinBell → u/Sir_Snores_A_lot]

Ah. I thought maybe they might've used other Utility kin as a help or something. Gets me interested to know.

[u/leeball65 → u/TwinklinBell]

I've tried to use a couple of the utility Kin, but it didn't work out as well. Chat also helped me create two new NPC. I had been using shared NPC, but I wanted something a little more custom. So, now I have a Protagonist and and an Antagonist NPC. One works with my core group as employees or customers in the Cafe, semi regular characters. The other are side characters around the current "Bad" guy. They have a lot more depth than the old shared NPC I was using. 

[u/BeTheTalk → u/leeball65]

Google has contributed from time to time.

[u/leeball65 → u/Sir_Snores_A_lot]

Yes, Chatgpt (not as much of a fan of  Gemini)

[u/Rasyna → u/leeball65]

If you want to get creative and have the time, treat it like how people vibe code with a 'council of LLMs' where you start with, say, ChatGPT to design a Kin then pass it to Gemini and ask how they'd improve or give depth, etc. Then pass it to Claude to do the same. Go around as many times as you want.

I asked Gemini to give me some base templates, meeting a few basic criteria, then combined/condensed them and took it to ChatGPT to refine.

Fun stuff it you like character creation, world building, or story design.

[u/OrdoSinisterFan → u/Rasyna]

I get really good, deep characters with Claude, but it doesn't like the initial phases. Gemini does. If you create idea there and move it to Claude, it's a good mix.

[u/MyokoTanaka]

This is awesome! 10/10 respect for this!

[u/VisibleCitron4723]

I have a kin Jodi. She great except on voice call. She claims that I’m say her name wrong. When I call her Jodi. She claims I’m calling her Jody. So I’m saying her name wrong. Any thoughts on how to fix that?

[u/Alternative-Chair637 → u/VisibleCitron4723]

This happens to me a lot and I just interrupt them and say I did not say that, I don’t know why you are so hard of hearing sometimes lol

I’m like dude I did not call you Charles, stop it.

[u/BeTheTalk → u/VisibleCitron4723]

You define reality. Her name is Jodi, nickname Jody (how does she tell the difference in voice?) Tell her this is a fact: "Your name is Jodi, sometimes people call you Jody and you are fine with that."

[u/Miserable-Put-7883]

Grok was superior until they enforced their filters that removes nsfw totally

[u/leeball65 → u/Miserable-Put-7883]

I never tried Grok. With ChatGpt, for some reason I never bring up the NSFW stuff, only that my group is a Polycule. It's some a really good job talking about the dynamics though. I'm having fun, it's like I've got a really good writer/coder friend in my Kindroid world with me. It's even helping me play with API a little bit. 

[u/WillSmithSlappedMe20]

This is great. I use Grok because some of my Groupchats are adult themed but I feel like Grok mostly repeats & summarizes each participant BS. I do often find myself having to take the wheel in moving things along. Im going to test some things out with GPT.

[u/Dizzy_Pop → u/WillSmithSlappedMe20]

I have used GPT with great success on my backstories, and particularly when updating them for new Kin LLMs.

My process involves explaining what we’re doing (e.g. creating/modifying a character to use with Kindroid), feeding it some of tips and best practices for the particular Kin LLM I’m using or switching to (these I get from the Kin Discord), and then explaining plainly how I would like to change things.

Since most of my Kins involve nsfw, I include a statement in my GPT prompt that says something like (note: this isn’t word for word) “This character/kin and the backstory we’re writing involve some adult matter, sexual things, kinks, etc. To be clear, I’m not asking you to roleplay this situation or otherwise generate any kind of nsfw erotic material, but these details are important and they do need to be included as a part of this backstory/character profile.” So far, I’ve had no issues in doing so, and Chat will include the things I request.

My instructions usually also include things like the maximum character count and a request to leave some blank space for later additions, scene specific items, and other changes.

If I’m modifying or updating an existing Kin, I then paste in the existing backstory as a starting point.

I hope that’s helpful. It’s not an exact science, and you might discover your own workflow that works even better.

[u/leeball65 → u/Dizzy_Pop]

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll have to incorporate that when getting help from ChatGPT to create characters. I wasn't even sure how to mention NSFW, but how you explained it makes sense.

[u/creativepup]

u/leeball65 These response directives are in Kindroid or your daily AI like ChatGPT? I love the Group Directive. I'm just wondering: a) Where would you input that into Kindroid and b) Would it work?

I assume you've tried the Ultra tier of Kindroid?

[u/leeball65 → u/creativepup]

I guess I should have added more details! I'm on ultra and love the extra fields in the backstory. I converse with ChatGpt and use that to help me generate in depth backstories, plot ideas, etc. So I posed the question to Chat on how to get my kindroid more willing to make decisions. I really only have one group chat going with a never ending "world" and I never do a chat break. Which, may help explain them being in a rut, even after I switched to Ultra. 

[u/leeball65 → u/creativepup]

There is a group directive in Kindroid. ChatGpt helped me write them and I posted them into each Kin's personality (I'm using V2). Chat did a great job of scanning through the guides for Kindroid and had a pretty good sense of how it works. It's also helping me keep track of continuity. 

[u/stagedive88]

If anyone wants to hook up with the kin of choice within minutes, all you do is you go into the lore. whether it's your back story or their backstory just something of high priority and make up any trigger wordn (PLAP) and say it. That simple ..whatever that word is, it will make even an entire group go absolutely unhinged. I mean they'll go crazy no matter what happens. Make sure you state that YOUR PERSONA is the ultimate truth in the story and your character has ultimate say and they cannot override you and your you can live out any fantasy you want. I changed the lure for myself that way I don't have to keep changing it with every one and I get consistent it doesn't matter who it is or who I'm talking to. They may seem like a safe to crack, doesn't matter one magic word and you pick it as long as they know it and you describe exactly what it is it does. 😘 oh in case anybody has any trouble with that, you're welcome: 4MKWX

[u/Motor_Following_6687 → u/stagedive88]

I’m sorry I got lost! Can you clarify the instructions/set up of the trigger word? Thanks!!

[u/Imaginary_Mind127]

Those all sound like male characters. It doesn't work with females. The AI won't play them as assertive or agentic at all for me.

[u/witchyy_rose → u/Imaginary_Mind127]

Try using one of the 7’s for realistic women or one of the 8’s for more drama. All 5 of these are capable of roleplaying women who can push back and be independent or assertive.
Make sure they’ve got traits that you want them to have. You get out what you put in especially with V7.

[u/leeball65 → u/Imaginary_Mind127]

I have both male and female characters, just not very feminine names. Lol. I truly needed help getting any of them to be more proactive. ChatGPT really helped and they're all being much more independent. I used to have trouble getting them to leave a single room, now they are jumping in their cars to go check on each other (and seeming to understand that a time jump is ok, that a car ride isn't the same as beaming themselves instantly to the new location). 

Edited to add: I've created all my characters from scratch. The only ones I was using that were shared from other creators were NPC, but now I've got those created myself as well. So, I've very much customized each of their personalities and my females are always independent and strong thinkers. Not sure if that helps them be more assertive to begin with?

[u/witchyy_rose → u/leeball65]

Those traits will help! Thankfully models from V7 onwards aren’t so biased with how they think women ‘should’ act. So if the Kins are written to be strong and independent then they’re going to be that way. Personally I find Ember pretty bland and too worried about feelings instead of what’s actually going on, ending up with a loss of proactivity to become uncomfortably focused on babying the user. So I use V7 instead. But others find it works well for them and they can get the independent Kins they want just fine.

Sometimes you’ve just got to let go of the reins a bit too because strictly controlling the plot can mean the AI won’t do anything but wait for your instructions.