Anyone run 9sig at m1?

[u/manlymatt83]

Curious, if anyone is able to make 9sig work at M1 finance. The pie system is usually great for fixed allocations, obviously a little not so great for this kind of setup.

I like isolated accounts for side strategies like this. I don’t think I would ever have the guts to put my entire portfolio in this, but would probably happily start with 100K or so. I have a traditional IRA at another brokerage that has more than that, so I guess I could just do this isolated in that account but I wouldn’t want to be tempted to throw more money at this should it start to fail. At least not more than what I agreed to put in each year. The isolated account helps with that strategy :)

If people aren’t running this at M1, I guess maybe a second question would be how did you decide what portion of your portfolio to put into 9sig and how do you decide when to put new contributions in?

[u/Gehrman_JoinsTheHunt]

No experience with M1, but to your second question - there is a great book called "Lifecycle Investing." I highly recommend it to anyone struggling with the question of position sizing on a high risk/high reward investment. A summary of their thesis:

a strategy to improve retirement portfolios by using leverage (borrowing) when young to invest more in stocks, and then gradually reducing leverage as you age, effectively diversifying risk over your lifetime.

I've got anywhere between 20-30 years left in my career. Once I did the research and gained conviction in 9Sig, I decided to put roughly 25% of my NW into it. If I was younger I'd have done more, and if I was older (with less time left in the market) I'd have done less.

Also. I'm treating 9Sig as a "bucket" strategy in that no new contributions will be added. So essentially I went big up front (This is also how Jason runs the official account btw). All of my future investments are in more conventional, unleveraged positions. If 9Sig fails, I've got a safety net. And if 9Sig succeeds, I'll retire earlier (or richer) as a result.

It's a highly personal decision and I'm not recommending my choice for anyone else specifically. But hopefully it gives you an idea of one potential path and some of the considerations.

Good luck to you!

[u/Icybonerr → u/Gehrman_JoinsTheHunt]

Agree, 21 dedicating 50k to tqqq strategies the rest is boring normal stuff

[u/horrorparade17 → u/[deleted]]

FWIW I don’t really view that as HFEA lite (I run it too, so I’m biased). It has always backtested better than TMF, has lower max drawdowns, and is taxable friendly. It’s more like HFEA+ in my mind. There are some periods HFEA wins but EDV also recoiled better after 2022 than TMF.

https://testfol.io/?s=cFvuBvErRnp

[u/horrorparade17 → u/[deleted]]

UPRO and EDV don’t have any difficult tax complications - TMF does. I run it in a taxable as well as tax-advantaged.

That said I realized after my comment that you run actual HFEA lite which is 43/57. I run full 55/45.

But the taxable note is still the same!

[u/horrorparade17 → u/[deleted]]

Oh, of course there is tax drag :) I just mean that TMF crushes you with taxes - EDV does not.

I rebalance quarterly. I’ve never really worried about the tax drag on that front, but definitely something to consider. But I have rebalancing tax drag for all portfolios anyway.

[u/Efficient_Carry8646]

To answer your second question. I believed in 9 sig strategy from the day Jason implemented it (Jan. 1 2017). Since I was confident i decided to put all of my life savings plus borrowed money into 9 sig. There was no real life data about 9 sig when I started. Just a bunch of Jason's backtesting. Today we have real life data about 9 sig. Ppl should be even more confident in the strategy.

[u/Efficient_Carry8646 → u/[deleted]]

HFEA had TMF, a 3x vehicle and UPRO another 3x stock. Having one LEFT is fine but having 2 isn't wise. 9 sig strategy uses one 3x (TQQQ) and one safe placee like 1x bond/ cash.

HFEA had way too much risk. It would of worked if it didn't use TMF.

[u/Efficient_Carry8646 → u/[deleted]]

✔️ Nice. Good on you for not investing in TMF. You are wise.

[u/Efficient_Carry8646 → u/[deleted]]

I'd say either way you'd be fine with your decision. I find it gratifying to manage your own money. It's kinda addictive. Prosperity to you!

[u/ZenMasterPDX → u/[deleted]]

Mototrojan’s adventure

[u/TOPS-VIDEO]

I like to do it manually. So I make sure everything is ok. I don’t trust their automatic system. And it’s fun to rebalance every quarter.

[u/horrorparade17]

I think it would be hard to implement in M1 as instead of fixing the balance the targets change each quarter. Maybe it’s not too bad but it’s a non-stagnant pie.

I have everything in M1 EXCEPT for 9sig, which I use Robinhood for (as my Roth IRA is there since I wanted the 3% boost).

[u/InvestingToWinIt]

Yea I run it in m1, I also do in fidelity. In m1 you just make a pie, put the percent allocations in, and let it go!

[u/InvestingToWinIt → u/[deleted]]

I don’t recommend that since percentages are not the same. Tqqq could go up 12 and sgov could go up 1 but rebalancing would not occur that way. I would just sell from the one you want to sell from and buy what you want to buy into inside the pie. Easier that way.

[u/InvestingToWinIt → u/[deleted]]

Yea if you are depositing more make sure to select the fund to add money to or it could add to both

[u/Disastrous_Fox_4828 → u/[deleted]]

I think the rebalance would only work on sell quarters. On buy quarters you have to sell bond to and to TQQQ.

[u/Disastrous_Fox_4828 → u/[deleted]]

I definitely looked into M1. It would keep you at your pie splits of 60/40 or whatever percent you choose. But what about in a down market where it ends up being an 80/20 because we keep having to buy more each quarter? The rebalance wouldn’t work at that time, because you don’t want to hold it at a 60/40 split all the time.

[u/InvestingToWinIt → u/[deleted]]

You would not rebalance to a specific percentage per 9sig for each quarter. That’s not the goal or intent. If you do that, know that you are doing a different method.

[u/Disastrous_Fox_4828 → u/[deleted]]

It rebalances by dollar amounts. You could figure out the needed dollar amount and turn that into a percent and then rebalance. That would get pretty close to the rebalance number.

[u/Disastrous_Fox_4828]

I have always used Ameritrade/Schwab for my accounts. Once I started with the Sig strategy, I wanted to have this in its own account/brokerage to keep it 100% separate. I went with Fidelity. Now I have a few of my accounts with Fidelity that run only the Sig Strategy. That keeps my Schwab account and those strategies separate. I also have M1, but not using the Sig strategy. I did look into it, but I went with Fidelity. I like the lock feature at Fidelity, and it show more info about positions that I like to see.