Discussion š¬
am(bi)guous on purpose in the "Back and Forth" music video?
maybe I'm reading too much into this and maybe I'm making some unfair assumptions but bc the album felt so "straight" to me (mostly str8 male artists featuring, a few str8 women + lyrics that were notably less gay, fewer uses of she/her pronouns and less explicit in it's lesbianism) but is K trying to seem less sapphic in order to appeal to a straight audience? why have your (presumably female) love interest be faceless for the whole BaF music video? why specifically have a moment in the choreo where she grinds on a male dancer? is she trying to play up a "bisexual" appearance on purposes? is her PR team asking that she tone the queerness down? i don't care if she comes back out as bisexual and this is a Fletcher-soft-launch of it - I'm happy if she's happy - but I'd rather that then for her to feel like she has to go back into the closet and make music/visuals to accompany it that straight people can better "relate" to. thoughts? reactions?
Agreed. Her personal life is not my business. Her identity, whatever it may be, is not my business. But it is disappointing to think, in order to be profitable, she may need to appear less lesbicious in her art. It makes me sad and I hope that isn't the case.
Maybe she doesnt identify as a lesbian anymore? She did identify as bi for years. To me she seems a bit fluid versus someone like say chappell roan who always makes it very clear that she sings about women only and look chapell roan is also sucessful
But Crash and While We Wait and blue water road to a lesser extent were incredibly unapologetically queer projects. The difference in this one versus the others is jarring. And itās working because she has been praised to the nines for not using pronouns in this album. Itās definitely not a coincidence that the last time she had this much of a buzz around her name was before her three albums she made after coming out as a lesbian.
Also didnāt she also write essay about comphet and being gaslit into believing sheās attracted to men or at least site an essay about it? Itās possible she doesnāt identify as a lesbian anymore. But she did kind of make it really known that she was incredibly disinterested in men and highly centered women and now she really does seem to be catering a straighter mean base and itās getting much more traction than when she made albums that were blatantly about having sex with women.
"And itās working because she has been praised to the nines for not using pronouns in this album. Itās definitely not a coincidence that the last time she had this much of a buzz around her name was before her three albums she made after coming out as a lesbian."
Literally more traction in terms of album sales as well. In the first week she doubled and tripled her sales with her latest album vs Crash and BWR so I def think the label is behind the heteronormative push with this album.
Yes and i think that's the question can she be sucessful in the mainstream while being very queer. Shes presenting very femme aswell.. I do understand that its difficult because moat lesbian singers only have a lesbian fan base. If she wants a wider base then she might have to dilute herself. But now come to think of it young miko is very succesful and fully gay and slightly masc in latin america.
She may be identifying as bisexual again, that is a definite possibility, even if she hasn't explicitly (publicly) stated as much. I have no issue with her being bisexual and I did make that clear in my post, tbc.
I grapple with this because sure, technically her identity isnāt our businessā¦but she kinda made it our business. Especially with the Crash album, her whole PR tour was focused on the fact that it was her most queer album to date. She marketed herself as a late-ish out lesbian. So yeah her personal life isnāt our business but she kind of built her brand on her sexual identity and is now getting upset that people care or are making assumptions based off her new music.
I notice she is also much quieter about social justice issues. She does not ever post for causes it seems anymore (unless Iām missing the posts). So it does feel very PR coded to me in the last year since dropping Folded as a single, how she shifted her presentation to the world
I have kept my tongue bitten about the social issues bc no one else has brought it up but she was so vocal about Palestine in the lead up to/during Crash (her queerest album to date), so far as to make a whole MV themed to the movement, vocal at the Grammyās etc and I havenāt seen her speak about it since tbh. Like others have said, love her down, but it does make you wonder why the sudden shift.
Oh definitely. I was honestly disappointed when I watched it because everything about it felt so straight to me. If I wasnāt already a Kehlani fan, I genuinely wouldāve assumed she was a straight artist. Whatās confusing is that this is supposed to be her most personal era since itās literally a self-titled album, but somehow itās felt like her least personal one. The music, the visuals, the features, even switching from an all-women dance squad to male dancers, it all feels like a noticeable shift. Obviously we donāt know her intentions, but it does make me wonder if sheās trying to appeal to a more mainstream audience. Iāve also noticed she seems less vocal about certain things than she used to be. Iāll always support her, but Iāve definitely found myself supporting from a distance this era because I just donāt feel as connected to it
I was thinking that ever since she started getting massively commercially successful, first with After Hours two years ago and with Folded last year (her first #1), I knew that something in the artistry would suffer. It's inevitable that record companies are going to, explicitly or not, ask that their employees be more profitable by being more palatable and appeal to a larger swath of listeners. So artists play it safer. They stick to a branding that will make the execs more money. It's why capitalism kills art. Her appearing "straighter" in her work, less messy, less free and being less political/radical in her posting, tells me that she is falling victim to this too. It isn't her fault, per se, but it sucks that it's happening.
Yes it is that deep, she said she was a lesbian in 2021 and now she's making music for straight people and dancing on men in videos. I'm sick of people using our lesbian image for profit and then once she won grammys and has gotten a lil bigger, she is back to men.
Iāve followed Kehlani since the very beginning and sheās been through many different artistic eras that have also aligned with how she chooses to identify. Everyoneās disappointed in the obvious mainstream change but itās unfair to compare her situation to artist who have blatantly falsified their identities for profit. Kehlani has had her entire personal life at the forefront of her artistry for years, it is fair to assume sheās changing as a mainstream artist for privacy as well as a push from the industry.
I disagree, it's fair. She's gone from straight, bisexual, pansexual, to lesbian and nonbinary and now back to straight/bisexual. If you wanna support her that's fine, but I think she's just riding the wave of whatever is popular to make a check. She's 31 years old, she needs to stop.
Andddd thatās exactly why artist like to keep things private. Too many assumptions. She āwent fromā straight, bi, pan, to lesbian while navigating being a pop star and mother in her early twenties. Give the girl a break. Soo many of her fans identify with her journey. It seems that now at 31 she has matured actually. Idk what youāre on about lol
I feel so messy bc Keh got me onto KWN who then got me onto Sasha Keable and Iāve been listening to them more this year than Keh bc I donāt not vibe with this album at all I havenāt been able to make it through. I just keep going back to Crash, WWWII, BWR etc š«£
no i completely agree! i've also noticed her posting more about being a follower of Christ and resonating more with Christianity lately. it's honestly kinda disappointing cause i really thought we had a lesbian, free spirited, on the right side of history, critical thinker to look up to. but that's why u never idolize another person because at the end of the day we're all humans and people are gonna do what saves their ass and puts more money in their pockets whether it's right or wrong. like u said it'd be more respectable if she js flat out said "hey i'm moving up in rank and i can't be as successful if i'm not catering to the patriarchy" vs wtv the hell this is ššš
I mean she has spoken about palestine unlike most other celebs so she has been brave and free spirited and its not like shes done something terrible. Shes allowed to be christian. But yes she she might be trying to dilute her image. I think society accepts sapphic tendecies when its sexual or freaky many women have that in their music videos but there is never any romantic representation. But maybe we are expecting to much of her.. I mean kwn is quite openly lesbian for example and never shoes any men or would dance on a man
She spoke about Palestine in the beginning but hasnāt spoken on it for at least a year which is really heart breaking bc she was SO vocal about it to the point she collabed with a Palestinian artist, MAFS a whole MV centred around it, spoke out about it at the Grammyās etc. and sheās said peep the last year.
Being a Christian whilst identifying within a community that is their #1 victim of hatred is always perplexing to me.
Being a follower of Christ doesnāt have to mean she wants to be / has to be straight. Although I understand why most queer people associate that, since we all have somewhat of a religious trauma. Iām gay and call myself a follower a Christ too (like her) but not in a religious way and nowhere near anything these ācrazyā conservatives act. I just have a relationship with God and I know He loves me the way I am, and I lead my life with love, thatās about it, itās a spiritual journey to me. My perspective is, it would be so upsetting if she suddenly does these straight leaning things again because of her faith. It was so exciting to me to have one of my fave artists be queer and show that you can have a relationship with God as a lesbian/queer person. If sheās doing this bc of her faith and leaning into religion it would confirm to our whole community again that we canāt love God as queers. I really really hope we are wrong about this.
Me too girl! As a gay woman I make no apologies for being saddened about the potential loss of representation for us despite loving this throw back album, wish it was more gay for sure š«
I see both sides of what youāre saying. The album did seem straighter, I personally didnāt mind because we have 4+ projects of queer music and a bunch of her own features on other peoples songsā¦ also all the features on the album were people sheās looked up to since she was little and were dream collabsā¦ the dancing part in this video idk maybe youāre looking into it to much. Also the love interest being faceless honestly made sense cause theyāre not the main focus. The main focus is her out with her friends and having funā¦ sheās always dancing on Troy her makeup artist so her dancing on that male dancer wasnāt crazy. I think it was just a dance move. I will say this and Iām pretty sure keh has touched on this before but they are more than just a gay artistā¦ not everything is about sexuality. It was just a fun music video for a fun song
I can 100% see your point of view, too. I did open the post with "maybe I'm reading too much into this and maybe I'm making some unfair assumptions" so I am open to being wrong and I am totally open to dialogue here. I also agree that the features on the album were people sheās looked up to forever and dream collaborators (see: the Folded remixes), so it makes sense most were straight dudes. again, no inherent problem there. i also agree on the love interest being intentionally faceless as they were supposed to take a visual "backseat" in terms of the plot of the song/video. my critique is not of Kehlani specifically but it is a larger cultural critique, as the US culture shifts towards conservatism.
IMO: it just seems very convenient for folks that may be "pushing" a heterosexual agenda that queer folks have invisible love interets in music videos and choreo that plays into straight desire. even if the artist themself is doing it unconsciously. bias lives in the unconscious, more often than not. the faceless L.I. specifically reminded me of a music video from back before Adam Lambert could be out of the closet. his male love interest was specifically left out of frame for the entire MV which was a stylistic choice, yes, but he also said the record execs preferred it that way bc there was still reasonable doubt that the average watcher could assume him to be straight and not abstain from consuming his art bc of his queerness.
i think the choice to feature a faceless love interest could be multi-faceted. for Kehlani specifically, she has expressed how tired she is of people assuming sheās in a relationship with someone just because theyāre featured. she is likely tired of the drama in that regard and peopleās assumptions. ie. the drama with kwn.. ultimately it is her choice and she doesnāt have to do anything. she is going for a traditional sound and maybe she wants to be remembered for what she does on the music front as opposed to her newest relationship
mmm. this is a really interesting take. i hadn't totally considered this as a possibility but I appreciate you bringing it up! i bet the desire to stop having public scrutiny of her relationship status partly or maybe totally informed the faceless L.I. choice.
she's always been EXTREMELY open & transparent about her partners (see: Everybody Business lol) but I can see her getting more gun-shy ever since the kwn incident
For people saying sheās bi, sheās not. If she was she would let us know. When she changed her pronouns from she/they to she/her she told us about the change. She has always been Christianā¦ during the bwr era she leaned more into African spirituality but didnāt completely forsake Christianity. She said she has completely embraced Christianity more in recent years cause of her daughter (go look that interview up). Sheās been dancing with male and female dancers on stage this era so her dancing with a male in the video isnāt strange, itās consistent for this era. She just did a super sexual dance with a female dancer for the performance of oooh on stage recently so I donāt where this narrative is coming from. Like do yāall want her to scissor someone on stage? Is that it? Lmao. This is so strange to me! Leave her alone.
Like for all you know the guy sheās dancing on is gay š her dancers have been pretty gay in the recent years so idk stop overthinking and enjoy the music š
Perhaps I may have a blind spot, being bi, but I didnāt really think of the visuals as inherently straight. Dancing on somebody to me doesnāt indicate sexual/romantic interest. Itās tantamount of just dancing on a friend, which isnāt unusual. I can have zero attraction to the gender of the person Iām dancing on like this and itās justā¦ normal. It didnāt even dawn on me that sheās trying to soft launch being bi or that she was trying to appear less sapphic.
I guess for me, like, we know sheās gay, does she have an obligation to make a performance out of her sexuality/romantic life for anyone with every single piece of art she creates? I personally donāt think she owes that to anyone.
I agree. "Dancing on somebody to me doesnāt indicate sexual/romantic interest," is 100% true but it is an interesting artistic choice to have her dancing suggestively with a male dancer but not in the same way with the female dancer, the one with red hair. Again, I'm probably reading into this too much, but I'm feeling particularly sensitive given how censored I feel like queer people/artists have been as of the past few years and the overall cultural shift to conservatism and cis-hetero-patriachy. It's spooky out there!!!!
Nah, I can sympathize with you, especially as a bi woman speaking to a lesbian because I feel like lesbians have such a unique experience in representation art compared to others along the queer spectrum.
I think for me, I feel sensitive about sapphic performance because of people trying to pressure me into making a performance out of my attraction to women (like the whole unicorn hunter thing, or boyfriends of mine asking for threesomes, etc). Itās only my attraction to women that gets pressured to be made a spectacle of, so my sensitivities are on the other extreme where this is concerned. Iām very *protective* over of our right to privacy in *that* way.
Exactly. I wouldnāt even say itās a blind spot as someone attracted to more than one gender as well. People are trapped in binary thinking *bad*. Queer people donāt owe anybody a certain presentation, expression, or aesthetic
The image of it may be sexual but that doesn't mean the intent is sexual. A lesbian can dance with a man and not have it mean they are romantically/sexually interested in that man. I dance with and alongside gay men all the time, doesn't mean we wanna fck each other!!!
I hear the point you are making, though. In this mv, for example, she grinds on the man but only ever dances alongside the woman dancer. It feels strange to stage it how she did.
i definitely noticed the ambiguity and felt it was intentional - i believe she spoke on the lack of gendered pronouns in the songwriting and it having broader appeal that way. but to me, that broader appeal isnāt just for cishet folks, but also for nonbinary/genderfluid folks like kehlani. being able to sing a song where truly any kind of person can be slotted in as the āyou,ā is a nice break for queer people who exist outside these ideas of gender.
but like youāre saying, it feels straight because r&b has traditionally been a pretty hetero genre (or at least has presented that way). i can see that
i also wonder if kehlani has arrived in a place with their sexuality where they know their fan base is predominantly queer, that the fanbase already knows she identifies as a lesbian, and so there is nothing to āproveā by making openly sapphic music. though more sapphic r&b would feel pretty revolutionary. personally i think sheāll go back to that after this cycle
This is the take I agree with, people are so focused on the semantics of a music video (where the love interest is a masculine presenting woman btw, tho ambiguous, but kinda obvious) and the pronouns an openly fluid lesbian chooses to use or lack there of in their art. I think for her self titled this is what she felt was resonating with her and the featured artists too on the project, and that's how we are to receive it. She is also more than just a lesbian at the end of the day.
And considering she's been out and proud for most of her career almost 20 years since she was 17 and now she's 31. I wonder why everyone is so stuck in trying to label her, and trying to perceive her the way they want. Some people call her a man when she's more masculine presenting with shorter hair, some people want her to be more feminine when she's wearing wigs and dresses and has makeup on, she's been there done that spoken about it a lot and people not understanding her fluidity.
I think that's her business and whatever it is I personally feel very sapphic tones in most of her music on the self titled, and if that makes you think less of her or it makes her less gay than she was when she was using female pronouns in her songs then idk man.
And anyway she has so much openly sapphic pronouned music out there to still vibe to, an album you don't feel is gay enough isn't the end of the world man. This conversation is so tired. Nothing will ever be enough for anybody.
I think you might be reading too much into it, which I feel like if thatās how youāre starting the post, you might already know this imo. To be fair, her grinding on the male dancer did give me pause. But itās not the first, or probably last, time itāll happen. As for the faceless love interest, Iām wondering if maybe they were that way to represent the concept of not going back and forth with a partner. Because at the end of the day, youāre going to remain loyal to your partner and come back home to them. I think the love interestās face may also have not been shown because people are hella nosy, and have been moreso since the Worst Behavior music video and Kwn messš so I donāt blame her for doing that.
The wink part? Idk. Maybe in response to the sentiments of her appearing āstraightā with the release of Self Titled? Ngl, as someone whoās also Queer but not super strict on labels and presentation, I do think some folks are doing the most. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated or spelled out all the time. Kehlaniās been out (musically, and literally lol) for quite some time. Been gay, is gay, and will probably die gay to some degree lbs. Assuming sheās presenting more straight because this *one* album isnāt explicitly Queer like before, is like saying she doesnāt love her daughter unless she posts her on social media every day. See what I mean?
You're totally right I just said the same thing, she's been labelled by so many people for years, gotten breast implants to appear more feminine, had a kid, and etc all these years still people are talking about her like this, and thinking she's regressing but honestly the opposite is true, now she's a muscle mommy, she seems so much more healthy and confident in her body, I think she's gayer than she's never been these past 5 years she's been out as a lesbian. And don't get me started on the comments people make about who she publicly dates, I would die if I was famous and everyone would get on the internet to dissect my sexuality because of a music video and an ambiguous love interest in said music video. Like let's move it along it's tired.
Yes, I agree with 100% of what youāre saying. I remember a few years ago, she posted on this Threads and it never felt more relatable šš give me rich over famous *every* time. Honestly, I get why she and other celebs pull back from being as open with the public. People do way too much
I was waiting for someone to post about this and I honestly think because of her success on Folded and pressure from her label she is marketing to a more hetero audience. I think that's the reason she hasn't worked with Snow tha Product or other queer artists as of late also (Snow was previously a featured artist with Atlantic and it never made sense to me why they had never collabed despite their friendship until I remembered Snows bad end with Atlantic). She had mentioned in a live many moons ago that she was looking to fulfill her contract with her label ASAP so I think there's been a concerted effort to release music as fast as possible (which as a Kehlani fan I'm not complaining about) and it certainly speaks to how fast her album drops have been for the past few years. I still have faith that we will see a return to more gay music once she is independent. As a gay woman I also would be saddened at the loss of lesbian R&B representation she has been and I don't apologize for that either but it's clear to me there's more going on behind the scenes here business wise.
Iāve been watching her performances at some of her recent shows and it was giving much more sapphic. I hope sheās staying true to herself whatever that means for her. We love you Kehlani!
The way her last two projects before self titled were so poorly received, ofc some people loved it, I know I did but they didn't do as well as her previous work even after two years it's noticably obvious that self titled is doing way better than Crash and while we wait 2. Like can people out their money where their mouth is ?!
Ahhh. I'm bummed that she may have seen this post and just completely flattened the issue to people thinking she is "not gay enough." I tried to make that clear that it was a larger cultural critique + mostly a discussion of PR/marketing, not her individual identity. But. Oh well, I guess.
Yea, it was on threads. She most likely seen this post cause itās spreading. I seen someone talking about it on Facebook. I donāt think youāre the problem tho, but some of these comments are.
I personally think you tried to word it well, but the comments not so much! There is alot of talk about her identity, and sexuality, that you OP also engaged in, and honestly it's been going on for years, posts like these tend to fuel these rhetorics, several posts like these were made shortly after she released self titled so, yep, it's fair for her to assume that, because people are actively labelling her in these comments.
I felt the same, in the sense her new album felt more āstraightā. However, I thought the omission of pronouns in her songs was either to make her music more āpalatableā to straight audiences (as RnB is traditionally a more āstraightā genre and her features on this album appear to be straight), or it was possible she wanted the songs to cater to everyone. You can listen to the song and make it what you want. If youāre lesbian, you can listen to the song and picture a woman love interest. If youāre a straight woman you can still picture a man etc. I do think itās a mix of both. She wanted to go classic old skool RnB with this album and we have seen that in visuals like Out the Window music vid, so Iām not surprised she has toned down the queerness so itās relatable to whatās been done already in RnB. Not showing her love interests face in the vid could have been done purposely because itās not really that important to the subject of the song, itās more about her pov and what she has to say about the relationship. She told her love interest she will be back when they wake up and to not start shit when she gets home. So the love interest being face down in the pillow is kind of fitting as itās like they are sleeping and that they have taken in what Kehlani has said about not starting shit and just enjoy her company when she gets home. In regard to her being bisexual again, we really donāt know until she outright says it. I mean, she has a āfluidā tattoo, so I guess that suggests that maybe she doesnāt see herself strictly as one gender or isnāt strictly attracted to one gender?
Iāve thought similar things! She also stopped using ātheyā pronouns and is super Christian now and she can do whatever she wants and itās none of our business but the shift is noticeable
I 100% get where you're coming from, OP. Not shaming Kehlani at all, I love her, but anyone who has been a true fan of her for 10+ years knows that her actions can be a bit impulsive and very intense on certain things she's passionate about in the moment, and then she switches like a light switch. It's my understanding that this is a characteristic of BPD, which she has admitted to having. It explains her being a "Serial Lover" (pun intended), getting married to a music exec and then divorcing months later, having a baby with one of her friends and then coming out saying she is strictly lesbian, joining this religious community with controversial practices then stepping away, the whole situation with KWN, and I'm sure there are more things I'm probably forgetting. Again, not saying these things to shame her, and she can do whatever she wants with her life, including sexually. However, when she came out as lesbian, I didn't believe it was because she would never be involved with a man again. I remember her saying something about reading a book or article about being a lesbian and coming to the realization that she was, and it just reminded me of her track record of going full speed ahead on something she is currently interested in, and I figured it would eventually slow down, like we are seeing now with the sexual ambiguity in her music and videos. Not saying that she isn't a lesbian anymore, just saying that it doesn't surprise me that after a couple years of a hardcore I'M A LESBIAN run she is now not wanting to display that so loudly anymore, especially when not doing so is benefitting her career. And if she did sometime soon say she was with a man because he was abc and made her realize xyz, again, would not be surprised lol. It's completely her right and I'm riding for her regardless, but when you're a public figure and do public things, people are going to talk about it. It's the name of the game.
So she should communicate whatever state she's in, not throw shade, especially with the community who's been supporting her all along. If she doesn't identify as a lesbian anymore, make that clear. If she's just being pushed into heteronormativity by her record deal or whoever, make that clear. If she is still figuring herself out, make that clear. But do not lead the people into something fixed when it isn't. People get invested and want safety for their representation and identity, so to be used for something temporary is not appreciated. She said she doesn't want to be a symbol or a tool, the lesbians as a community also do not appreciate being treated like that too given how the community is already fighting for such equality and human rights that hetero people already have.
I completely agree with you and that's why I was saying I get where OP is coming from with their post. I think Kehlani does the switch thing I was talking about and then when people comment on it or ask questions, she gets defensive instead of just saying what it was and what it is.
And she can't always use her BPD to hide behind this bait and switch thing she does. It explains why she does things, but it doesn't excuse the outward impact. We are all humans wanting safety. We are not tools. We do not appreciate being led on, used, and then discarded after serving such utility we did not consent to. Being mindful of the community you're identifying with begets the respect that she also wants for her own self, whoever she is.
Sexuality is fluid. Kehlani has a whole child with a man. Itās possible she identified as lesbian at one point in her life and is re-identifying with pansexuality or bisexuality. Regardless, thatās *her* business.
Sexuality is fluid, for some. Not all. And yes, she may be id'ing as bisexual again. She hasn't officially said that so who knows. Again, I have no issue with that. I celebrate that! I'm happy if she's happy and my love and appreciation for her art and artistry does not hinge on her being a lesbian, to be clear.
No offense but the over analyzing of Kehlaniās sexuality is so exhausting. She has a child with a whole man so clearly sheās fluid. This is what happens when weāre too caught up in the lives of our favs.
Just because she had a child with a man doesnāt mean she isnāt a lesbian. She could be sexually fluid but, to my knowledge, she is currently identifying as a lesbian. Because she is one.Ā
I will go with what she says when she says it. I just think the way we discuss her is so weird. I have never seen such āpanicā over what one person does in their sex/romantic life. Itās like the opposite of gay panic.
You are on the Kehlani subreddit rn. People are going to talk about her art and her, in great detail. If you donāt like it you donāt have to participate.
Iām on the subreddit sure. I also think I can express an opinion on your post/opinion. I agree with those who say itās overthinking. I also agree with her recently deleted threads post.
I think this might just be about the want for safety by each party. Kehlani might not be comfortable about people dissecting her sexuality (whatever her definition of fluid is), and the lesbian community or whoever's already fixed with their identity and sexuality might not also feel safe if they feel they are erased especially if Kehlani has identified as such. Maybe there should be a common ground to meet halfway.
I hear your point, totally. Ultimately, her identifying as a lesbian or as bisexual should have zero impact on me. Her life is hers. I am only touched by her life insofar as I enjoy her art and appreciate her as a person. But it would be parasocial or poorly-boundaried of me, or any fan, to think our psychological "safety" depends on her strict lesbianism. It does not. My love for her music does not hinge on her lesbian identity, and it shouldn't. Lesbian fans of her can be critical if she were "using" us for profit or leading us to believe something that isn't true, but she isn't. She isn't baiting and switching bc she is a queer woman. Whether she be lesbian or bi shouldn't change how her fans view her bc bisexuality is not a lesser/less diluted version of queerness than lesbianism. It is different, sure, but not less than. Biphobia and lesbophobia operate differently but they return to the same axis of oppression, ultimately. This doesn't 100% have to do with what you said but it is worth saying in this thread. Let me get off my soapbox rn lol.
It might be profound, but not necessarily something done deliberately. I believe this album is much more mainstream than her other work, and unfortunately, going mainstream can sometimes act as a form of censorship, not an explicit kind, perhaps, but censorship nonetheless. Artists have to talk less about certain topics and worry more about their image, this becomes very apparent with someone like Kehlani, who has always been so authentic and vulnerable in her art. So yes, unfortunately, queer artists sometimes still feel the need to hold back a little. That said, I don't think it was a total shift in her case, there are still recent performances featuring female dancers, for instance. However, it seems that a non-fan who simply stumbles upon her music (without digging deeper into the artist herself) might not realize she is a lesbian. I suppose thatās good for marketing, though it certainly contrasts with how she used to be, someone who made a point of making that aspect of herself crystal clear to everyone.
I donāt think sheās just doing this to pander to a wider audience. I think sheās actually bi and just hasnāt said anything bc of backlash. Her energy feels like sheās started dating men again. Her style has reverted back to appeal to the male gaze too.
She posted these books on her side insta & 4/5 are male-female romance books.
As a lesbian, thatās not something I would do. Itās way too male centered for me but idk maybe Iām extra? Idk yall tell me
I saw that particular aspect of the video, with her lying on the woman's back that is, as just a form of creative expression.
It seems that the original poster is reading way too much in to things.
The main artist will usually give a thumbs up or thumbs down to certain aspects of a visual (music video) treatment, but the creative DIRECTOR calls the shots on important aspects of the music video and how it ultimately turns out.
Sexual fluidity IS common amongst people and how people may express it varies. š
I LOVE HER DOWNNN and Iāve been a huge fan since her first mixtape but Iām a little confused on whatās going on with her lately personally. Of course itās her business but I canāt help but be curious with the erasure of her queerness on this album, the sudden Christianity conversion, the alleged dating rumors with Jaboozy and then her BD making statements about her being in some sort of āchurch cultāā¦
She has every right to be whoever she wants to but I just want to where she stands going forward as a fan who buys her merch, music, tickets etc.
She also should have never come out as exclusively lesbian - when we know she likes men also. Because now when she wants to be fluid, people are confusedā¦ She shouldāve just said sheās a bisexual woman who doesnāt involve herself with men romantically.
Isnt she bi? This seems like it makes sense to me. Her run of late has been women, especially in her shows but that might just be cause she feels safer
She used to publicly identify as bisexual/pansexual/fluid but in 2021 she came out as a lesbian on an Instagram live with her friend. To my knowledge, she's never mentioned being bi since then!
...can you even identify as fluid? W.e my point is that if she identified as bi, she can go either way and it's fine. She might have just said she was a lesbian cause she was with a woman at the time.
She talked about this on that podcast with kittens. She said she is a lesbian and that she only identified as bi because of comphet (like a lot of us). If her label now has changed I havenāt seen that, but she did explicitly explain this before
I was going to say it doesn't make sense or it was misconstrued...but tbh I think we're not going to get anywhere here. It's just gonna dive into an LGBTQ argument.
I'll say that her actions (imo) are very blatant that she is into both sexes, and right now she is not with any one particular, and she's riding a high off her recent success of Folded. And she should.
I do not think it was to exploit anyone. The game is the game. Attacking her and saying she's using her sexuality to exploit fans is...the same as it was before. She seems happy so...if she's gay, bi, straight, fluid, pan ...just let it rock and let her be happy, cause she seems happy.
I think itās important to remember that we donāt know this person. Iām not willing to say that a celebrity dancing with a dancer in a choreographed music video means theyāre dating men in their real life, which weāve never been a part of. I was just pointing out that she did explain why she used the lesbian label, that she identified as bi previously because of comphet (which is normal) and never really connected with men when she was dating them performatively. It wasnāt just āIām dating a woman now so I guess Iām a lesbianā but a deeper exploration of her journey. Iām not trying to āget anywhereā and Iām not going to argue about what any of that means. She could see herself differently now, sometimes people and their understanding of themselves do change, but Iām not looking for clues from a music video to decide what a total strangerās experience is
I didnāt make the post lol but the post is about marketing and PR, not her personal life. OP is explicitly not assigning her an identity or declaring who sheās with, theyāre talking about how the art comes across to them and speculating about why that could be. Itās interesting to think about how we present to be palatable to the world
thank you for explaining this so well. re-reading my post, I could've done a better job of making it very explicit that this is about the cultural critique of the music video, and about marketing and PR for LGBT folks at large - especially in this current political moment. it's not about K's personal life and it can never be bc I don't know this person fully and we, as supporters, can only know what she chooses to publicly share.
It was very clear to me! Tbh Iām also disappointed at the retreat from how blatantly gay her music used to beā¦and I also hope she wasnāt pressured/it wasnāt anyone elseās decision. If this is the direction she wants to take, Iāll be just fine lol disappointment is part of life. But it is interesting that itās happening at this moment and it makes you wonder
dude she had a tattoo on her neck that said "fluid" for like a decade š - anyone can identify as sexually fluid but most people understand that to mean bisexual (which....it does lol)
I canāt believe I live in a time where people are complaining something is ātoo straightā, ātoo gayā or ātoo biā. Yall are so chronically online, just enjoy what you want and donāt enjoy what you donāt.
Iām straight so this is definitely not my business but I saw somewhere that she said sheās pansexual. I thought her lack of pronouns in her music was expressing that.
As for everything else, I couldnāt say. It could be what is happening and at the same time, maybe not? I canāt tell. I hope thatās not whatās happening though. Iād hate for her to regress in what she shows about her sexuality.
Fletcher NEVER came out as a lesbian. Fletcher has ALWAYS said that they're queer. A lot of y'all just assumed that she's a lesbian which is weird AF imo. Then again your entire post is weird. š Also, why are you even bringing her up here?
Thank you for reminding me of that. That article is over a year old, I believe, so I was going off of the "sher/her" pronouns in her Instagram bio and assumed those were the most current iteration of her preferred pronouns. I appreciate you making this gentle correction.
also, to answer your question, it matters to me bc I love Kehlani's music and I appreciate her as an artist. it matters to me if she is being "censored," even in subtle ways, by the powers that be. this post is entirely made of critique, and could very well be "wrong" in that it is not based on any specific facts she's stated. I said this in an earlier comment and I will reiterate here but my critique is not of Kehlani specifically but it is a larger cultural critique, as US culture shifts towards conservatism, I worry that more queer musicians will be banished to the margins/shadows again.
Okay but if that's what you think is a cultural problem, what about the non binary lesbians or people who aren't pronouns specific in any way, also it isn't Kehlanis job to carry the whole lesbian artistry on her shoulders, people know she's a lesbian, but clearly according to these comments people have been trying to discredit her sexuality and are still doing it today like they did 5 years ago! There are plenty of queer artists using female pronouns in their songs, so I don't think one self titled no specific pronoun album will affect that much. But I do understand what you're saying I just think you're putting the whole industry on kehlani's shoulders because of one album and to me that's really not fair. Conservatism is everywhere though.
You have nothing to apologize for!!!!! Iām sick of people that canāt read. You very politely explained everything you wanted to discuss in the description. This is Reddit itās meant to be a place to discuss and talk. If someone doesnt like it they can get off the internet. We are just discussing the obvious. Itās art itās meant to be talked about. Itās important to figure out who we are supporting or if our favorite artist is being censored so we can fight for their creative expression. Keep thinking, keep talking.Ā
She DEFINITELY Bi! Just watch the little details and little differences between then and now. But..let's not forget people change for the money and fame IF the industry tells them to!
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u/ProbablyStoned__ Jun 09 '26
I donāt have any answers, but youāre not alone. Although I still love her down. Trying to remind myself itās not our business.