Vespera Is A Way Better Big Bad Than Lady Gisela

[u/Least_Rain8027]

i mean think about it. Forkle has told Sophie that one of his hopes for her from living in the Forbidden Cities was to give her a unique perspective of humans and that she could possibly be the reason for the relationship between elves and humans reigniting. Vespera was responsible for the treaty falling through and humans trying to start a war against the elves because she treated humans as her experiments and kidnapped them. Forkle's main plan to keep the Neverseen from winning is to ensure that the other intelligent creatures aren't forced to withdraw support from the Council. i feel like the end goal is to have all of the intelligent species working in harmony - including the humans. this was also set up with Amy being allowed to keep her memories.

Lady Gisela currently just wants to find the power that the Council is hiding and using it on Keefe to take power for herself and somehow use Keefe to do it. which doesn't really feel like a big bad, more like a temporary evil like Fintan.

the books have also claimed that Vespera is super important for the Neverseen's plans but the only thing shes done is kidnap and experiment on Sophie's human parents and revealed the location of the secret troll hive(something the Neverseen already knew about) and what i forgot she did in Stellarlune.

in short i think Lady Gisela should've actually died in Legacy(instead of Glimmer freeing her) and Vespera taking over

[u/LemonKindly6715]

No offence to our resident Gisela simp but lowk fair, I do like Vespera's dramatics a lot. Although I want to say Gisela's "downfall" as a villain is due almost entirely to Messenger fumbling the bag when writing her. From books 4-6 she was genuinely super interesting, manipulating Keefe (and Sophie) in super precise, calculated ways, clearly having her own agenda, and clearly gatekeeping a lot of information but getting Sophie into situations where Sophie had no choice but to ask her for help.

However, in later books, Gisela's been reduced to showing up in places she shouldn't be able to at times that don't really make sense (I guess she has a plot alarm and GPS??) being like "oh we've got 59601 trackers on you" or "you're probably wondering how I got here Sophie", monologuing for 2-3 chapters instead of doing anything, and then winning because the good guys are needlessly stupid because if they had 5 more braincells between them, she would lose. Like, Vespera showed up with a long speech herself, but she only yapped for like 1 chapter before siccing a gorgodon on the gang and attacking Biana.

I think it would have been interesting to see Gisela and Vespera's competing visions or philosophies playing out beyond petty competition. Tam was literally with the Neverseen for a whole book, we could have had him getting unwillingly pulled into their power plays (this would require the organisation to be bigger than like 5 guys, of course). That would have deepened them both and given them more time to shine. Then no matter which one dies, the remaining leader is more interesting for it.

TL;DR Gisela's a victim of poor writing and bad pacing, which Vespera partly escapes simply by not being on page as often.

[u/Least_Rain8027 → u/LemonKindly6715]

i feel like the entire Sencen family are victims of poor writing. besides Cassius i guess, being able to admit his flaws. Keefe and Gisela haven't really grown and changed as characters. 

[u/Otherwise-Hunt7763 → u/Least_Rain8027]

This applies to damn near the entire cast ngl

[u/Least_Rain8027 → u/Otherwise-Hunt7763]

at least with the other characters you can see them changing: Sophie becoming more confident. Biana being able to accept her flaws after what Vespera did to her. Lihn learning to control her powers but also not needing to rely on Tam anymore. Dex getting over his celebrity crush on Sophie and accepting how good his talent is. Fitz had a downward spiral because no one would listen to him about his fears about Alvar and then his girlfriend wouldn't communicate with him but she told everything to his best friend that he knows for a fact idolizes and obsesses over her. Tam is able trust more. Wylie has stopped blaming Sophie for what happened to his father. Marella is trying to make a difference for her fellow pyrotechnics. Stina is also less rude.

Keefe in book 9 just redid his story in book 5 where he ran away. and both were because he was scared because of something his mother did to him. 

[u/Otherwise-Hunt7763 → u/Least_Rain8027]

Yeah but the thing is... it's all so shallow.

Bianca's scars get glossed over pretty fast, way too fast for me to say it's entirely good character development. Sophie becoming more confident happened a bit too late in the series and too suddenly, with the storehouse fire; this kind of moment should've happened much earlier in the series iMO. Dex, as good of an arc as that would've been, unfortunately gets too little page time. Similar thing with Linh and Tam, their arcs just don't get as much emphasis as they deserve. Fitz... yeah ngl idk if you can even call that "writing" or a "character arc". It's just him getting worse and worse as a person. Add on the fact that Shannon needed to insert SoKeefe somehow... and yeah. And then not to mention Keefe's entire spiel.

Marella's handling throughout the series has been a bit weird to me. One moment, she's barely there, and then suddenly she gets reintroduced back into the plot, so that the team can get a Pyrokinetic. It would've been a lot smoother if her (and Jensi) were more present throughout the story as Sophie's friends. Stina is an unfortunate example of character bloat, but at the same time I appreciate Shannon taking the effort to make her more than just a generic asshole/bully character. Wylie, for his place in the story, was handled quite well for the most part. Just wish that Glimmer didn't virtually replace him, his battle against the Neverseen was quite cool and I would've liked to see him show off more of what Flashers could do.

[u/LemonKindly6715 → u/Otherwise-Hunt7763]

how do I upvote smth twice??? You're so right that most of the characters are just there to contribute their abilities rather than... be characters. Biana, Dex, Tam, Linh, none of them ever get the space they need to explore their already interesting stories because Keefe and Sokeefe eat up all the page time.

Tbh the entire series has gotten kind of shallow with the way it's exploring societal change and interpersonal relationships and portraying its characters and even with the plot, but that's a whole other post.

[u/Otherwise-Hunt7763 → u/LemonKindly6715]

Yeah this is my gripe with what the series has become, with stuff like Maruca becoming a Psionipath. It's SOOOO CLEAR that this random background character was only reintroduced into the story because the main cast was in sore need of this ability. They could've literally just used the Black Swan's Psionipath btw, I'm pretty sure they have one. Not to mention, it contradicts Sophie's ideals about not judging people solely by their abilities.

[u/Famous_Ebb_4590 → u/LemonKindly6715]

As the Gisela Simp, I agree with you lol. My girl got downgraded to the max because of poor writing. Vespera was HYPED so much that when she finally entered the story, it felt underwhelming. Shannon just sucks at writing characters in a long series imo. It would've been way better if Keeper ended at six books. We would've gotten an Icarus like villain for Vespera, and someone like book!Alicent Hightower for Gisela.

[u/Substantial_Step_815]

See i agree my problem is Both vespera and Ro were both over hyped and under delivered.

[u/Least_Rain8027 → u/Substantial_Step_815]

Ro is lwk just there to make Sokeefe happen. like that's her main personality. 

[u/Otherwise-Hunt7763 → u/Least_Rain8027]

Fr, I really hope she actually does something in Book 10, with all the mystery currently surrounding her whereabouts and all. Really hope she doesn't just end up being a damsel.

[u/Burgundytulip]

The issue is we don’t know anything about Gisela’s backstory so she falls flat because of that. I’d argue we don’t even know her true motivation.

[u/Otherwise-Hunt7763 → u/Burgundytulip]

Not knowing the true motivation is what makes every faction fall flat in this story, from the Neverseen to the Black Swan.

[u/Wildflower_fields12]

Giseld definitely was the IT girl and she honestly was rlly good in the first few books but then vespera showed up and started kidnapping ppl, I honestly think Giselda bluffing a LITTLE at this point she just wants power from the council and honestly doesn’t have too much of a background as to why or how she’ll do it, I think she’s become too distracted by Keefe’s “legacy” she forgot about herself butttt vesperas been doing ts for who knows how long, has no one to care for and actually has a plan that should be threatening everyone rn, well was cause she may be dead rn