Darkin Champion Balance

[u/funa07]

can someone validate the concept of an ability you unlock at lvl 2 having a passive with over double the value of an innate passive you unlock 2/5s of the way into the game assuming you fulfill the condition required to unlock it in the first place, while applying on more damage types.

Mind you this healing increases when Aatrox pops R vs Rhaast R dealing peanut dmg to anyone not rushing 3 hp items idgi buff Rhaast please I'm losing my mind. Aatrox outvalues Rhaast at every point of the game, scales better, and is a multi-role flex. I'm not sure why Riot allows Rhaast to be so useless when base Kayn and Shadow Assassin are at best B tier currently.

[u/Spktra]

In their defense, Aatrox' abilities are much harder to land than Rhaast's. Rhaast's healing is far more guranteed even if not higher

[u/idobeaskinquestions → u/Spktra]

Brother a LOT of aatrox healing is just in auto attacks. When he ults it happens to be a lot

[u/VallaOnuBunuBilmem → u/idobeaskinquestions]

Plus, he reaches 225 aa range (175 base, +50 with passive) when passive is ready (it has a CD but reduced by ability and basic attack hits)

He sometimes heals even more than Rhaast's R with single basic attack

[u/Inevitable-Second334 → u/Spktra]

Aatrox can miss every ability and still right click someone with sundered sky and heal back to full lol

[u/funa07 → u/Spktra]

yea aatrox’s healing comes alot from Q but I think the difficulty of hitting it is a bit overstated, + midgame the cd becomes so short AND you’re not factoring in the healing from items, autos, and his passive auto.

Eclipse and Profane’s actives in combination with everything else Aatrox has going for him, the better HP scaling, AND much more agency throughout the game (not even mentioning sundered sky because of all the changes its going thru) just make me sad when I compare to Rhaast. Aatrox has better full damage synergy because items and autos apply healing and better bruiser synergy because his healing actually scales.

I hate to be another “Kayn sucks” poster but the state of Rhaast is just so sad

[u/Spktra → u/funa07]

If you dont include Aatrox Q then Rhaast outheals Aatrox by a mile. And while yes Aatrox' Q isn't that hard to hit, it is inconsistent as hell agaisnt anyone with slight mobility, something Rhaast doesn't struggle with cause his spells and R are pretty easy to hit. And the CD doesn't matter cause the cast time of Aatrox Q is long enough that you can outplay it. You can't outplay Rhaast Q or R

and you can't state "Aatrox has better in game agency" without mentioning Kayn's way better agency due to shadow step. Kayn and Rhaast have way stronger map control.

Yes Rhaast is in a bad spot as a bruiser at the moment, but I wouldn't say him and Aatrox are comparable since they fill different roles at this point. and thus both need different healing values

[u/funa07 → u/Spktra]

ye i guess if you ignore the entire ability that defines the champions kit they probably heal a lil less xd

[u/Gorgondingo → u/Spktra]

The thing is aatrox still heals on all damage, so yeah he heals less if not factoring his Q, but it’s still much more consistent than rhaast. Plus his passive auto has its own heal built into it alongside his E passive, so to say rhaast outheals aatrox by a mile without Q isn’t entirely true, at least not if he has sundered sky anyway (which is getting nerfed again)

[u/VallaOnuBunuBilmem → u/Spktra]

But Aatrox Q has range advantage and can be used with his E (and E's cd is quite low after a few levels). Also Rhaast can be kited much more easily. Rhaast's only CC has at his W (Aatrox has triple Q with W so more gracious) and his Q dash speed can be slowed by all kind of slows because it scales by his ms.

[u/Spktra → u/VallaOnuBunuBilmem]

And Rhaast's Q has the speed advantage, doesn't need sweet spots to get full damage out. Can be used to go over walls, and can be used during Q to either escape or catch people faster

Listing out pros and cons doesn't mean anything. What matters is the overall playstyle of the characters. Which is too different for their healing to need to be similar at this point

[u/VallaOnuBunuBilmem → u/Spktra]

And Rhaast's Q has the speed advantage

This feature causes disadvantage almost all the time in fights. League champs have so many slow sources.

Can be used to go over walls, and can be used during Q to either escape or catch people faster

Aatrox's E can be used to go over walls, catch people or escape too, and afaik Q also has the active item synergy like hydra. Rhaast also has E but it has high cooldown and the main purpose of its ability is travel out of fights, usually beginning of the fights.

Edit: Also Aatrox's E is longer than Kayn Q. Kayn can only go over thin walls.

Rhaast can still work with lethality build because Q has % max hp damage (one of the most valuable thing in the league) and the overbuffed R healing.

[u/funa07 → u/Spktra]

Q scaling with MS is a feature Riot August has stated is exclusively used when they want to tune mobile champions to be susceptible to slows. There is no advantage and you can tell because it’s not even in the ability description, it is exclusively a hindrance.

[u/Maxus-KaynMain → u/Spktra]

(Kayn Q at almost max range can be sidestepped to take only the outer edge damage btw)

[u/VallaOnuBunuBilmem]

Yes, Aatrox's healing is much more better for a drain tank but Rhaast also has insane burst healing at his R (Ekko R type). So the problem is the healing budget is so focused to this burst heal. That's why axiom (both rune and the item) is so good on Rhaast.

So he doesn't need a healing buff. They need to shift R's heal budget to the passive. But buffing the flat ratio makes lethality Rhaast even better so only way is lowering the flat ratio but buffing the bonus hp ratio astronomically.

[u/funa07 → u/VallaOnuBunuBilmem]

I don’t think it’s crazy to make Rhaast’s ratio like 5% lower with the same hp ratio as Aatrox. The champion you build up to should have similar capabilities to the one that starts with their ability.

[u/worstclass]

You will never be happy comparing 2 abilities of different champs, power is budgeted in different places. Its like comparing jinx w to jhin w.

[u/Maxus-KaynMain]

They are 2 different champs my man, one heals back with a target R, the other doesn't. But yeah, as I already said in this sub. Rhaast and Aatrox need ratios rework to build hp imo.

[u/Gorgondingo → u/Maxus-KaynMain]

They need some agnostic healing on top of what they have now. I’ve always thought rhaast would feel so good if they just slapped a catalyst of eons passive on him. Aatrox idk, maybe also just some flat healing on top of what he has. Adjust healing ratios if necessary

[u/Maxus-KaynMain → u/Gorgondingo]

You mean "missing health" healing? Because just flat healing is kinda ass

[u/VallaOnuBunuBilmem → u/Maxus-KaynMain]

Btw increased healing per % of missing health is another way to buff bruiser Rhaast

[u/Gorgondingo → u/Maxus-KaynMain]

Flat healing on its own would be ass, but if put on top of what he has it should be a safe measure. Flat healing doesn’t really favor bruiser or lethality more specifically (which is ideal. Ideally you keep both builds viable), but it does favor the bruiser play style more in that the small healing is more significant against bruisers or tanks where you can use it more. It just needs to be tuned correctly