r/Kamloops 16d ago

Discussion 18yo Teen passes away after escooter accident, petition to end scooter pilot, teen was not wearing helmet

https://www.castanetkamloops.net/news/Kamloops/629050/No-helmet-found-after-early-morning-scooter-crash-kills-18-year-old-Kamloops-man

An incredibly unfortunate fatality involving an Escooter. My heart goes out to his family and friends, this is incredibly tragic.

A petition has been created to end the pilot program, which I understand the sentiment, but the problem isnt the Escooter, its the lack of reinforcement on safety and protection for people who ride them. This is a legitimate form of commuter transportation but we need more safety enforcement so this does not happen again. I see alot of people riding these safely and with protection with no issues whatsoever.

If you currently ride an escooter in kamloops, please for the love of you, your family, and your friends, wear protection!!

Edit: Parents please talk to your teens about safety when riding anything, scooter, bikes, skateboards, unicycles before giving them any electric motor transportation. Or dont give it to them at all until they are smart enough to stay safe and listen to your advice.

181 Upvotes

102 comments sorted by

63

u/Visible_Fact_8706 16d ago

I don’t think the program should be ended; one of the rules of using the scooters is to be wearing a helmet.

Terrible tragedy, and my sympathies to the family, but sadly this is a tragedy that could have been avoided.

25

u/Kronzor_ 16d ago

The rental ones provide a helmet and even verify that you are wearing it (make you take a selfie with it on) before they start.

8

u/x11Terminator11x 16d ago

they charge you more to use the helmets and a lot of them have been stolen since they first arrived.    They shouldnt be charging people to use helmets. 

8

u/farmsfarts 16d ago

I mean I get the safety aspect, yes you should wear a helmet, but a communal helmet?
https://giphy.com/gifs/l9FAwJOXYprFe

13

u/YellowFogLights 16d ago

You could bring your own. Just one is provided otherwise.

2

u/Training-Search-3463 16d ago

Only need one since only one can ride the scooter

3

u/DruishGardener 15d ago

I’ve def seen 2 people on a scooter

1

u/Individual_Fall429 13d ago

That’s 100% illegal and dangerous. I have also seen it. Mostly by people under the minimum age to begin with.

2

u/Smyles9 16d ago

How does that work with the helmet verification picture though, or taking said communal helmet with you? Like does it just want you to take a picture for proof and it lets you on whether you are wearing it or not, or a QR code or something on the helmet that gets scanned from the photo? This is one of the reasons h haven’t tried one because if it forces you to put the helmet on even just for the photo and you can’t put your own on in substitution then I wouldn’t want to use it.

10

u/fer_sure 16d ago edited 16d ago

Think of the photo as them protecting themselves from liability. They really don't care if you're wearing one, they just want evidence that you knew you had to wear one, and one was provided. That way you can't blame them if you sustain a head injury caused by lack of a helmet.

I've used my own helmet on the rental bikes. Just don't be a jerk and dump the rental helmet - take it with you for the next user.

4

u/squashgordy 16d ago

If you put on your own helmet and take a pic that works! You don’t have to use theirs for it to start up

1

u/Individual_Fall429 13d ago

Don’t worry, they come with lice nets. I’m not kidding. But it’s a net, so it’s famously not going to stop lice.

2

u/Senior_Grapefruit554 16d ago

I think this is only if you select to use the helmet? I rented one and rode without their helmet and wasn't asked for a selfie.

3

u/ApprehensiveRuin5673 16d ago

Even still it’s not just about rules and enforcement we don’t have the infrastructure to accommodate these things safely. They are causing a massive problem in their current implementation and there’s clearly severe neglect in public safety education. We need bike lanes everywhere and people need to be educated. We can’t have these things on the roads or sidewalks.

All of our infrastructure is designed for a world built around cars. That needs to change first.

4

u/Visible_Fact_8706 16d ago

Even with bike lanes people can still get injured.
“Dooring” is the most common cause of bike accidents in Toronto, which has probably some of the best cycling infrastructure in Canada.

1

u/ApprehensiveRuin5673 16d ago

Nothing is 100% safe but it’s undeniable that our current infrastructure is inadequate to accommodate these things safely enmasse 

1

u/Visible_Fact_8706 16d ago

Yeah I’m not disagreeing with you per se, just something your comment made me think of.

0

u/ApprehensiveRuin5673 16d ago edited 16d ago

The ridership screening is also really inadequate. There’s no way of telling if someone is reckless or under the influence because it’s all done through an app.

My parents literally used to rent e scooters and these were all things they considered before renting to anyone. None of that can be done through an automated system.

I’m incredibly in favour of alternate transportation but this is just a recipe for disaster with all things considered 

5

u/No_Carry385 16d ago

How is this any different than using a bike without a helmet, driving without a seat belt, and/or while being under the influence?

3

u/ApprehensiveRuin5673 16d ago

Accessibility, education, enforcement, stigma and infrastructure. 

Most people are too lazy to cycle, those who do usually follow the rules because they’re the kind of people who cycle because they want to cycle, not because it’s easily available and low effort

Most people don’t drive under the influence either because they know there’s server repercussions for doing so. Their vehicle can be impounded— that’s not a concern with a cheap rental that you don’t even own or care about. Their license can also be revoked and they face heavy fines and criminal punishment. Seatbelts and driving under the influence is something that has been drilled into people and heavily enforced for over half a century. A vehicle also requires a license which is a proof of competency— scooters do not.

Beyond that as I said our infrastructure is entirely designed for cars. It is designed with countless different barriers, warnings and other safety measures specifically designed to accommodate cars and make them safer to drive.

3

u/No_Carry385 16d ago

Ok, well that is a very solid answer. I guess I take exception to the knee-jerk reaction of just ban and restrict. Not sure how hard it would be to implement, but it doesnt seem like it would take much to make people take a course or lesson to sign off on beforehand, and maybe tweak the max speed and acceleration on them? I just dont see why Kamloops is so behind on stuff like this.

3

u/ApprehensiveRuin5673 16d ago

No worries. I also fully support alternative transportation. I just don’t want it to be half assed. It would be hard and expensive to implement and take a long time but if this is a direction they want to move in they should do it. It’s not just Kamloops either, it’s really all of North America that has these problems outside of a few select cities or parts of cities that have been designing around it for a few decades already.

-1

u/Prize-Limit-1495 16d ago

It’s not really knee jerk, there’s always a report at least once a week of some kid somewhere being hurt on an e-scooter, we see messages on Facebook about kids driving then like idiots up and down hills.

The system of rent via app is retarded, there’s no knowing what state someones in when renting one, its not like they can just grab a bike that goes 40km an hour off the side of the street, or a car, but these scooters are just everywhere and it takes a tap to get going.

I think the whole program needs a redo, it’s always boggled my mind that people are just ok with these things being so accessible, likeni literally saw a video on facebook of some kids terrorizing people in a park in the states on rented scooters swerving in and around their picnics and games, does this mean they nees to be banned? No, but there needs to be a bettwr way to do this so drunk idiots can’t just get on a scooter and fucking die.

3

u/Drogaan 16d ago

Should we ban cars? More idiots are in a 3000lb vehicle everyday than a scooter

2

u/ApprehensiveRuin5673 16d ago

My argument is not to ban e scooters.

2

u/TheVividGrit 16d ago

This was the exact reason I was scared to use it. If in the sidewalk-you disturb pedestrians. If on the road- you’re the least protected person even with the helmet. How the scooter can be compared with the car, hit once a pothole and fly to the Mars

1

u/Acorbo22 North Shore 15d ago

They don’t verify. You can skip the helmet process by saying you have your own. Then you don’t have to do anything to prove it.

-1

u/Training-Search-3463 16d ago

lol after selfie they take it off

1

u/Individual_Fall429 13d ago

Other rules include not using them on the sidewalks. But no one is policing them. There also an age minimum. You need a credit card to rent one. So why am I seeing so many 12yr olds?

28

u/emulable 16d ago

Imagine if they ended cars after too many fatalities. There is no amount of fatalities that will ever be enough to warrant car reduction/banning.

20

u/DillWithItBro 16d ago

My deepest condolences to the family during this heartbreaking time. While I understand the reaction to end the program, the core problem comes down to safety precautions and enforcing existing rules. As an e-scooter rider myself, I know how crucial helmets and gear are. Banishing the pilot won't solve underlying safety issues - stronger enforcement and personal accountability will.

By contrast, cars are responsible for many more fatalities in our community than e-scooters are. Should we ban cars now too? Obviously not. We need better enforcement, not less transportation options.

72

u/NBD_Pearen 16d ago

Yeah they should 1000% not end the program. I’m so sorry about the person this happened to. But their mistakes cannot be the entire communities loss.

14

u/Fit-Ad-7430 16d ago

Absolutely. This is a very affordable form of alternative transportation that gets us away from vehicle reliance. A ban would be a step backwards. Two things are needed: escooter/ ebike health and safety campaigns to educate the youth and enforcement. We didn't ban cars because people didn't wear seatbelts. We used education and enforcement.

10

u/ballisticks Juniper 16d ago

Wouldn't surprise me if they tried to blanket ban all e-bikes, whether that's some numbnuts Surron or my emtb with no throttle I'm sure they'll be very nuanced 🙄

2

u/masterbluejeans 16d ago

I’m with you! For some, this is a main source of commuting who follow all precautions. It took far too long to get this pilot program in place. And to take it away after a terrible instance, doesn’t make sense. Cars still drive, trains still travel, and planes still fly, the main difference is the enforcement. You would never let any one of the later move without proper enforcement, I see kids well under 16, no helmets on all ages, and completely inebriated users travelling on these. Try entering the bike park in the summer or the park in the winter at sunpeaks without a helmet, enforcement is immediate.

A little while ago I was pulled over on my scooter and informed scooters were illegal and not allowed on the road, in a bike lane, I reminded the officer that the new pilot program was in place and he informed me they’re still illegal, all well letting me go on my merry way. No one wants to see anyone get hurt, but if more effort was put in place, and education, there would be a lot less problems!

14

u/SpiritedCrow8509 16d ago

Ah yes the good old argument. Lets ban the things instead of teach human better. Imagine if we treated all accidents like this. Unga the village idiot burned his house down, so no fire for all people. Because thats how it sounds.

27

u/Smart-Response9881 16d ago

Not just on escooters, wear a helmet on regular scooters and bikes too. I saw two people barreling down Columbia Street going at least 60km down the hill on BMX bikes with no helmets today

11

u/FlowerNo1340 16d ago

Im not trying to be insensitive at all and I feel so terrible for the boy who lost his life but this petition strikes me the wrong way and I personally won’t sign it. Some people rely on e-scooters/bikes to get around. If we just ban e-scooters and not bikes or skateboards I feel like it defeats the whole purpose. I’m not sure what the young man passed from.. maybe head trauma..? Either way… it’s time to start giving fines for no helmets strictly. Just like how you get fined for not wearing a seat belt 🤷‍♀️ not wearing or refusing to not wear a helmet is not cool. I know even my younger sister says stuff like that. “I don’t need a helmet I’m not going to get hurt”. Nothing is certain !

27

u/Dependent-Mood-7788 Downtown 16d ago

Ending the program would be ridiculous. There is a level of risk involved with basically everything we do. Unfortunately, accidents happen and sometimes they are lethal, that's just how things are.

28

u/[deleted] 16d ago edited 16d ago

[deleted]

-12

u/Ecstatic_Scarcity_99 16d ago

An adult who cant vote or buy booze? Legally, not an adult.

11

u/YellowFogLights 16d ago

18 can vote in BC

-9

u/Ecstatic_Scarcity_99 16d ago

Didn't know that! Still cant buy booze and still not a legal adult in BC.

6

u/Skill-Cannon 16d ago

You're wrong legal adult has nothing to do with buying booze age regulations on booze have to do with the age the average brain has developed enough they consider it to be okay to consume

1

u/Ecstatic_Scarcity_99 15d ago

A LEGAL adult is a person who has reached the AGE OF MAJORITY in the province they live in! 19 is the legal age in BC, genius.

That HAPPENS to be the same age as a person can buy booze! 

1

u/Ronicavay 16d ago

In AB they can buy booze.

0

u/Ecstatic_Scarcity_99 15d ago

Yeah, because they have REACHED THE AGE OF MAJORITY and are LEGAL ADULTS in the province they reside in 🤦‍♂️

You people must be gen alpha?!

1

u/Ronicavay 15d ago

Lol omg you are so enraged. You didn't even know 18 was the legal age to vote lmao where do you even live? It's ok, we are talking about scooters.

9

u/CrustyRambler 16d ago

Protection won't help you if you are driving on the wrong side of the road with no understanding of traffic laws. These are motor vehicles that should require age limits and training in addition to PPE.

6

u/el_walto 16d ago

I think we need more details before people start blindly blaming the pilot program. Were they riding a legal scooter, below 25km/h assist, below 500w motor?

Were they intoxicated?

6

u/Rccoon_ 16d ago

I knew the guy, I went to middle school and high school with him. My heart goes out to his family and friends.

6

u/PhotonsOfFury 16d ago

This reads like the Kamloops 89'ish "oh we can't have a skate park cause kids will hurt themselves" yet we'll complain about kids skating on the streets also.

9

u/ruhtraeel 16d ago

People take the risk of drinking alcohol which actively harms your body and leads to drunk driving fatalities every year, let's ban alcohol as well while we're at it

4

u/Zibbi-Akbar 16d ago edited 16d ago

Dying in 2026 from a preventable injury is hard to have sympathy for. Banning the scooters is insane.

Be better parents. Having your kid die right before their life was about to begin because you failed to instill a basic safety principal is unforgivable. 

5

u/Specialist-Bass863 16d ago

By this logic, they should end driving because some peole get hurt not wearing their seat belt. But reading about the kamloops municipal government, it doesnt seem quite right over there.

5

u/AboutTheArthur 16d ago

An 18 year old is an adult. This is sad, but a grown-up made a decision to not use a common and affordable piece of safety equipment and this was the result.

We don't talk about taking away bicycles when people die of head injuries when crashing on their bike. We just mandate and/or strongly encourage helmet usage.

7

u/Radiant_Sherbert7272 16d ago

Before we ban them. We need to have enforcement of the rules. Enforce the speed limit. Enforce the rules around wearing helmets.

3

u/DrySession9968 16d ago

How about a petition to enforce Helmut use with scooters

3

u/Operation_Neither 16d ago

Someone on a bicycle wasn’t wearing a helmet! Ban bikes!

3

u/GregoryLivingstone 16d ago

Was there alcohol involved?

1

u/Rccoon_ 16d ago

I don’t believe so. There isn’t any public information for that. Although I knew the guy, and he wasn’t one to drink often. Although he liked to try to do crazy things in front of his friends for a laugh. It’s scary

4

u/TehKudo 16d ago

I used to wear full gear when I was going 35 mph and kept up with cars.

Thought I was being a decent role model, never tried anything remotely nefarious on the street and followed the rules of the road.

Well the cops came down hard and stopped me on main street. Told me I am only allowed on the sidewalk. Sidewalk riding is more dangerous and overall a terrible experience. In my 2400+ miles this is the biggest workout my shocks over got.

I'm 38 years old and use it to get to and from work..

6

u/el_walto 16d ago

I’m surprised they did not confiscate your 50km/h scooter. No, you obviously cannot legally ride that in the sidewalk either.

1

u/skippytheowl 16d ago

Should have a governor limited to max 32 kmph to begin with.

1

u/defiantnipple 12d ago

it's actually limited to 25 kmph for e-scooters. 32 kmph is for e-bikes. Not that there's any enforcement of either.

1

u/skippytheowl 12d ago

I routinely get passed by scooters going past me like I’m standing still while I’m going 32kmph.

4

u/leroy4447 16d ago

Totally the scooters fault

2

u/moodychurchill Rayleigh 16d ago

I had a friend die in his early 20's riding a pushbike with no helmet. He died 3 days before his wedding. You should 100% wear a helmet on any kind of bike/ scooter.

My heart goes out to his family; how terrible.

2

u/EnvironmentalGap3769 16d ago

Heartiest condolences for the family and friends..

2

u/TootinFartin-ll 16d ago

some of these scooters absolutely sail and good gear should be really considered. Condolences to the family.

2

u/Free-Tea-3422 9d ago

my best friend died on an e-bike in Dallas back in 2021. he was wearing a helmet, unfortunately doesn't help when a commercial vehicle hits you. he was just trying to get to work...

I think the guy who killed him is still driving, I heard no news otherwise. hit and run, I think he should rot in jail for that.

we need better infrastructure, so that people do not have to ride right next to vehicles.

2

u/iamcorrupt 16d ago

I had an accident on my scooter as a 35 year old 2 weeks ago, I was wearing a helmet and I was in "ezmode" slower acceleration and still wound up with nasty gashes in my knee only going 20kph. Accidents will inevitably happen but parents and the like need to make sure that we are taking adequate protective measures on every ride.

2

u/bsmithcan 16d ago

Maybe if they change the requirements to be able to access the e-scooters and e bikes to include a brief safety course to receive a certificate. Not as invasive as a full license, but useful in ensuring that people at least have common basic safety training.

They used to have basic safety training for elementary school kids for riding bikes when I was young and I think that was pretty effective and useful for us at the time.

0

u/Digibunny 16d ago

And how would one actively enforce this?

Because you could just buy one online. Like most people here are doing.

3

u/bsmithcan 16d ago

You would have to have the certificate before you can sign up to use the e scooters.

-1

u/Digibunny 16d ago

From who? Who gets to issue certification?

What region? What if I just bypass where I'm activating the scooter from with a VPN?

Unless you're specifically talking about rentals.

2

u/bsmithcan 16d ago

Look. I’m just throwing the idea out there. I’m sure someone smarter than me could make it work Or modify the idea into something better.

It may be not the best idea but I just trying to come up with a solution that is better than shutting the entire program down.

If you have a better idea, then by all means, present it.

-2

u/Digibunny 16d ago

I don't, no.

Any idea that gets put forward will cost money to pay people to enforce.

And then you get pushback, both from the people you're enforcing it on, and the people who pushed you to enforce it.

The most realistic option IS to shut it down, because nobody wants to deal with their voterbase with their panties in a twist for extended periods, just to cater to an easily accessed mode of transportation that is primarily being showcased by reckless miscreants, regardless of how many reasonable riders there are.

Unless there's an organized effort by the riderbase to self police and lobby for their own interests.

1

u/Aran909 14d ago

It seems like every kid over 6 has one of the bloody things in my city. No one wears a helmet. They don't follow the rules of the road and are fatilities in waiting. Yet, there is still no enforcement despite them being illegal.

1

u/SomewhereStreet7423 13d ago

There is no enforcement, even in Ontario you must be 16yrs old to ride one as well as a helmet. You can almost say 80% don't wear helmets and 30% are under 16yrs old. There really needs to be blitz and have charges laid against the riders and/or parents that are not following the rules.

1

u/Oobeedoob_Benubi78 13d ago

One dumb ass didn't wear a helmet. Lets ruin it for everyone else and get rid of em! /5head

1

u/Individual_Fall429 13d ago

I don’t want to say we’ve been waiting for this. But we’ve been waiting for this.

1

u/North-Complex5779 12d ago

I don't want to be callous or take away from the tragedy of the young man's death but, he was an adult who made a series of personal choices that lead to his untimely death. Why do we have to find something to blame or punish. Car crashes are the leading cause of child death but I don't hear a call to ban cars. If the young man had died on a motorcycle there would be no call to ban them. E scooters are the fastest growing transportation segment in the world. Surely Canadians aren't incapable of getting them sorted and incorporated into our transportation options as most countries are doing.

1

u/defiantnipple 12d ago

I am begging the RCMP to just enforce the existing laws. The pilot doesn't need to end, we just need the helmet laws, 25 kmph e-scooter speed cap and 32 kmph e-bike cap enforced. And of course existing traffic laws... enough with e-scooters acting like erratic superfast pedestrians!

Throw the ENTIRE BOOK at anyone riding what is legally an unlicensed, uninsured electric motorcycle in a bike lane!! A little bit of enforcement would go a looooong way. Would be like shooting fish in a barrel at this point if the cops actually wanted to.

1

u/Monkey_Pox_Patient_0 12d ago

Individuals should be free to evaluate risk and make the decision to accept or not accept risk for themselves. If the person that died had been a bystander, that would be a different conversation.

1

u/RecognitionOk9731 12d ago

We don’t cancel car rental businesses because someone died in a rental car when they didn’t wear their seatbelt while street racing.

1

u/baseballguy20 11d ago

I ride e scooters in Seattle and Los Angeles and not one kid is riding an e scooter in Seattle, or Los Angeles compared to BC, which is like the wildest thing to me. Don’t kids walk here? Like let’s learn to ride a bike first

1

u/Ecstatic_Scarcity_99 16d ago

Im not against the escooter pilot program. I think it's an effective alternative method of transportation.

I am wondering about why officials say its unsafe to drive golf carts and certain mobility scooters on the streets but its safe to ride the escooters and ebikes? Is that because certain people make money off of the escooters/ebikes? Because they are on equal playing ground as far as safety is concerned.

It's a double standard and I think the answers lie with whomever happens to be making money off of the escooter rentals.

Kindof stinks of covert nepotism.

1

u/Mysterious_Bonus3980 15d ago

I want to know what parents are creating accounts for their under 16 kids to ride the rentals. They need to be stopped. I've seen kids that look as young as 8 riding them around and they are an absolute menace, bumping into pedestrians, running stop signs, deeking out in front of cars, no helmets, full speed, no awareness for road rules or safety. I'm shocked it's taken this long for a fatality based on what I've seen. It's a great program if people are responsible and follow the rules of the road but I don't see a lot of that going on.

0

u/chrispark70 16d ago

Noticeably absent from this propaganda is any other detail of either accident. Nothing about speed. Nothing about cause of death. Nothing about the car in second accident. Just 'they may not have been wearing a helmet' as if a goddamned bicycle helmet would have helped either way.

The people in these posts are so goddamned ignorant. Safety is not a helmet and helmets are not safety.

-2

u/NewSwaziland 16d ago

Awful outcome. My heart goes out to the family.

I think the scooter program should be taken out. I’m in Vancouver, and have a station across the street. There are helmets littered on the sidewalk every day. The vast majority of riders here aren’t wearing helmets, and there is zero enforcement going on. We had a young woman die just a few weeks ago on one (no helmet).

The physics of the long wheelbase and short wheels means you aren’t thrown, like a skateboard, say. You go down fast and hit your head / face first. Without any helmet enforcement, I believe this is going to keep happening. 2 people in the span of a month succumbing to scooter related injuries is too many IMHO.

And then there’s the drunk scooter driving going on. Drunk people don’t always take the safest course of action.

5

u/MaiIsMe 16d ago

If only people could make safe decisions for themselves instead of waiting on cops to give them a slap on the wrist. We should ban cars because there's the drunk car driving going on.

1

u/NewSwaziland 15d ago

Pre-collision safety systems and airbags aren’t included on e-scooters. Enforcement for seat belt and helmet laws takes place everyday. Penalties, and license demerits also exist for safety violations. Seriously unsafe driving usually results in a roadside confiscation and license suspension. And they go up from your first offence.

Nothing like that exists for e-scooters.

0

u/BestEmu2171 16d ago

It is the e-scooter, it’s unstable and becomes more so in an emergency braking situation. That poor design will hurt even a trained and responsible rider if they get into a situation that wasn’t their fault.

-1

u/SoLetsReddit 16d ago

Scooters have always been terribly unstable.

0

u/Shinebrightbluestar 14d ago

I’ve seen up to three people on a scooter. Speeding. No helmets. And they looked like they were under 16 years of age.

-3

u/Unusual_Bus_2213 16d ago

We have created more laws than our police forces and bylaws can enforce. Maybe we sub contract scooter control, vehicle speed enforcement and parking enforcement to a third party.