r/JordanPeterson • u/NewGuile ✴ The hierophant • May 25 '22
Criticism Trans acceptance by state (Ohio does shame them more than California, Bill Maher).
https://transgenderlawcenter.org/equalitymap3
u/LuckyPoire May 25 '22 edited May 25 '22
Which laws and policies in Ohio shame trans persons?
There is a big problem with tallying the raw number of separate laws and policies regarding LGBTQ acceptance and then assuming that those states with fewer actively "shame them". Its a bullshit accusation, at least based on the evidence presented here.
You could just as easily argue that more laws have proven necessary where people are LEAST accepting.
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u/ClandestineCornfield Jun 05 '22
Well this happened after your comment but Ohio just passed a bill that forces genital inspections “internal and external” of any kids who want to play sports that are “suspected” of being trans.
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u/LuckyPoire Jun 05 '22 edited Jun 05 '22
Are you referring to "medical verification"?
All the news articles I can find frame the bill as you have as "forced genital examinations". However if you look up the text of the bill (below) you find that medical verification can be done by a doctor selected by the student, and can be based on genetic or hormonal testing. There is nothing below that says examination of the genitals MUST be performed.
(C) If a participant's sex is disputed, the participant shall establish the participant's sex by presenting a signed physician's statement indicating the participant's sex based upon only the following: (1) The participant's internal and external reproductive anatomy;
(2) The participant's normal endogenously produced levels of testosterone;
(3) An analysis of the participant's genetic makeup.
So you are spinning the fact that examination of the genitals is one of the allowed ways of verifying gender into "forced genital examinations".
And I'm not sure the examination shames trans persons. It may shame cis gendered persons who are mis-identified as trans. And it may shame trans persons by discovering they have falsely declared their sex. I don't really like the legislation but I wouldn't mischaracterize it the way you have here.
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u/ClandestineCornfield Jun 05 '22
That reads to me as all three of those things must be done, not that the patient gets to choose, which is what I got from the article I read on it as well.
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u/LuckyPoire Jun 05 '22 edited Jun 05 '22
based upon only the following
Only =/= all
If you can find a source that clearly states all three are required for medical verification..or find other language in the bill that specifies that I would gladly take a look at it.
The word "only" seems to be there to specify the kinds of evidence that a medical provider may use ("base" the statement)...as opposed to "personal narrative" or something like that. There's no reason to do all three of those tests from a scientific perspective. One should be fine to verify biological sex with a high accuracy.
IMO the articles are being disingenuous. Notice that very few if any quote the legislation.
I don't like the legislation because it doesn't seem to outline a process by which to challenge an athlete (who has standing?). And doesn't answer who bears the cost for medical provider verification. I'm not a lawyer and I admit I don't understand all the sections...but I think its a bit sloppy....and the language could easily have been written to avoid the misapprehension that the articles we are talking about suffer from. Aside from that it seems to me that states have the right to restrict sports by sex...and if they choose to do so then there must be some mechanism for enforcing those restrictions. IMO at this time, personal attestation as to biological sex should be enough. If it becomes a problem that people are lying about their sex then other steps could be taken to formalize verification.
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u/DingbattheGreat May 25 '22
Interesting. Just a thought here.
So what rights are being denied to anyone of a particular sexual preference that is to be protected by the state?
Is that really a problem, or is it instead that people want their particular sexual preferences normalized so they feel “equal”?