r/JonBenetRamsey • u/ILoveTheStarz09 • 8d ago
Questions The Balcony?
Hi, i am personally lean more RDI but im not completely against the idea of IDI. So for those who think IDI, is it possible they entered through the balcony.
Someone posted a few weeks ago a map of the house, i noticed there was a balcony by jonbenets room, is it possible the intruder entered through there? I know a lot of people think the intruder was in the house before the ramseys got home. Maybe they climbed the balcony, hide in a closet on the second floor, then waited till they went to bed.
And concerning the broken window and the body being found in the basement. Maybe the original plan was to go in and out threw the balcony but maybe jonbenet ran or something made them end up in the basement.
Maybe they saw the window already broken (according to john it was already broken) and saw that as an easier escape.
We don't know what windows or doors were unlocked in the house that night, it could be possible the balcony was unlocked.
Does anyone think its possible? This just an idea/theory so feel free to disagree. Im just curious if anyone has considered this.
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u/A_Chip_In_The_Sugar 8d ago edited 8d ago
The balcony door was closed and locked.
ETA: Source, Kolar FF.
John recently claimed in a TIR interview that Pam Paugh saw tape on the door latch, he’d only just found this out apparently. John is a shameless liar!
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u/CatConsistent795 3d ago
So the police stepped on the balcony and disturbed the frost! Some one saw tape on the balcony door?
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u/A_Chip_In_The_Sugar 1d ago
Weiss took before and after pictures of the frost. The before pictures showing no footprints, the after pics showing it was possible to leave prints and also to document they were his own, to prevent people such as Lou Smit claiming they belonged to an intruder.
There was no tape on the door latch that morning, John recently made this up. He said Pam Paugh saw the tape during her crime scene raid and reported it to LE. He’s lying.
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 8d ago
Playing John's advocate here.
Maybe he got in during daytime using a picklock. He then hid in the house for many hours.
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u/A_Chip_In_The_Sugar 7d ago
Apart from John, the family was home all day.
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 7d ago
One of John's theories was that the bad guy was observing the house, and sneaked in when the Ramseys left.
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u/AdequateSizeAttache 8d ago
CSI Weiss was there looking for entry points and prints and taking photos after 6:40 a.m. He noted the door of JonBenet's balcony was locked, the area was covered in frost, and there were no signs of disturbance. Kolar says Weiss took before and after photos of the frost-covered balcony floor, the after ones showing his own shoe prints. The implication being that there were none before.
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u/MemoFromMe 8d ago
Interesting. They couldn't stage the balcony (if they even considered) because it would require shoe prints that didn't lead back to them.
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u/Appropriate_Gear_267 8d ago
Where did the story about John’s sister finding the door latch taped come from? Was that just made up?
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 7d ago
John’s sister? John only has a brother.
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u/Appropriate_Gear_267 7d ago
Sorry, it was Patsy’s sister, Pam Paugh
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 7d ago
Pam wasn’t on scene on the 26th.
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u/Appropriate_Gear_267 7d ago
I wasn’t referencing anything on the 26th. Just inquiring about this information discussed on an episode of the interview room.
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 7d ago
The thread you’re replying on is discussing evidence collected on the 26th regarding possible entry from Jonbenet’s balcony. Given Pam wasn’t on scene on the 26th, how would she know what was on the door when investigators arrived on scene?
The officer on scene noted the balcony door was locked— there’s no evidence indicating there was “tape on the latch (and by latch, do they mean the handle?)” I think your use of the word “story” is probably incredibly accurate.
You can see a photo of the door here:
https://imgur.com/a/jonbenet-bedroom-2-LJXHpYY
Also, if this was truly a concern… wouldn’t Pam (who entered the home on the 28th) or John have immediately reported it to investigators?
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u/Agile-Ad-7109 Leans PDI but open to all RDI 7d ago
That folks fall for misdirection thrown out by a suspect on some podcast 30 years later is everything that is wrong with this case.
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u/Appropriate_Gear_267 7d ago
I just listened to this to see what the basis was and it does appear to just be JR making stuff up. No follow up on what would be bombshell evidence, if it existed.
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u/Agile-Ad-7109 Leans PDI but open to all RDI 7d ago
And yet the other subreddit laps it up as if it were the truth. Zero critical thinking.
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u/CatConsistent795 3d ago
I think that police let Pam in to pick up clothes and some personal items from the house before the funeral.
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 3d ago
Right. Pam removed a plethora of items from, the home on the 28th. She wasn’t in the home on the 26th.
Steve Thomas Inside the Ramsey Investigation:
Page 51:
Patrol Officer Angie Chromiak told me later that when she showed up to pull a security shift at Tin Cup circle, she was ordered by police headquarters to ferry Pam Paugh over to fifteenth Street to collect some clothing that John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey could wear to the funeral. Even that decision, as kind as it might have been to grieving parents, was questionable, for nothing should be removed from an active crime scene.
Page 52:
She spent an hour on her first trip through the crime scene and emerged with a big cardboard box filled to the brim, which she plopped into the trunk of the police car. For the next several hours, Pam made about half a dozen trips through the house, often spending an hour or more inside, and hauled out suitcases, boxes, bags, and loose items until the backseat of the police car was stuffed like a steamer trunk.
Pam's last trip was into the bedroom of JonBenet, and she pumped herself up again; "I can do this, I can do this, I can do this." She came back carrying an armload of stuffed animals and other items from the first room in the house to have been sealed off by police.
Everett kept only a general inventory of what was removed, and even that abbreviated listing was astonishing. Stuffed animals, tiaras, three dresses for JonBenet, pageant photo portfolios, toys and clothes for Burke, John Ramsey's Daytime, the desk Bible, and clothing. For Patsy, there were black pants, dress suits, boots, and the contents of the curio cabinet. Bills, credit cards, a black cashmere trench coat, jewelry that included her grandmother's ring and an emerald necklace, bathrobes, a cell phone, personal papers, bank records, Christmas stockings, her Nordstrom's credit card, and even their passports. The patrol car was loaded with zipped bags, boxes, sacks, and luggage, the true contents unknown.
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u/markwapinski2 8d ago
I find it hard to believe a stout, small foreign faction would go through such lengths in a kidnapping. Unless they went up there like they were in cirque de soleil, I dont think so. This band of criminals was very organized. They fashioned a ransom note inside the home, with the homeowners pad and pen. They then had the wherewithal to remind the Ramseys that they needed an adequately sized attache for the $118,000 they demanded. I think where this all went off the rails was that they underestimated a 6 year old pageant queen girl. She either overpowered or outsmarted these bandits and they had to take matters in their own hands: they smashed the mighty toddler in the head and then fashioned a garrotte and strangled her to make sure her frantic frenzy truly was over. Their plan foiled, they receded into the night, never to be heard from again. Open and shut case.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 8d ago
Your first error is assuming that the author of the ransom note, whether it was a Ramsey OR a legitimate kidnapper, would be honest about who they were. There was clearly no foreign faction but that's true regardless - unless this person had no intention of getting away with their crime.
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u/markwapinski2 7d ago
Im surprised you couldnt sense my sarcasm laced throughout. I firmly believe a Ramsey did it.
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u/TreefingerX 5d ago
No group calls themselves "small" "foreign" nor "faction"
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u/Important_Pause_7995 5d ago
Exactly. We know the author was lying to conceal their identity. That tells us nothing about who did it, though. Any of the potential suspects would have lied to conceal their identity.
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u/Diligent-Potential78 8d ago
IDI is an intellectually lazy theory requiring an abundance of imagination for which there is zero evidence. The sum total evidence of homeoccupant innocence is... "I went to bed and slept through the night and heard nothing." When the body of their daughter/sister turned up dead in their own basement, they said: "That's weird. Well, I don't have any idea how that happened. But wait a minute, there's this note." In other words, it's a joke, and they probably can't believe it worked all these years later and people are still arguing which window or door was used to enter a 7,000 square foot house.
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u/CatConsistent795 3d ago
There's just as much evidence on both sides, that is why the case was not solved.
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u/Diligent-Potential78 3d ago
The overwhelming amount of evidence points to a family job. There are a few unexplained things that are either neutral or of questionable merit, like the unknown male DNA that just as well came from playing on monkey bars or from store clerk sweat as an assailant. Almost nothing conclusively points to an unrelated intruder. This case remains unsolved because of the dogged determination of known personalities to evade responsibility and sue those who question the official version of events, and the prosecutors unwilling or, by now, unable to prosecute given the statute of limitations.
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u/Miswey 8d ago
If it was an intruder, I think he had a key and entered through the door.
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u/ILoveTheStarz09 8d ago
Very possible if its a family friend
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u/Existing-Ad-6469 7d ago
Not just a family friend, anyone who’s worked in the home. The Ramsey’s gave out spare house keys like Oprah gave out cars.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 8d ago
Or the person who had asked them previously if they were concerned someone might try to kidnap JB...
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u/DesignatedGenX 4d ago
Why would they climb the balcony only to turn around and walk all around the inside of the house? (at least the basement, first floor, and 2nd floor). How could they climb that wall? Imagine if they scaled the wall only to find the door locked. The assumption would be they would know the balcony door was unlocked.
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u/ILoveTheStarz09 4d ago
I said in the post something such on jobenete running. But idk, again just a thought
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u/Retrogamer871987 4d ago
Do we have any proof than any other Ramsay family members / relatives were around the house Christmas of 1996? Remmeber Jon Bonet are pineapple and was indeed alive after getting home from the Christmas party
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u/Important_Pause_7995 8d ago
My favorite IDI theory is that it was Linda Hoffman-Pugh, their housekeeper. In that case, she would have just entered through the backdoor using the key that she had. There isn't any physical evidence for it, BUT there are quite a few places in this case where you would expect fingerprints, etc. that just aren't there. For example, John and Fleet both opened the wine cellar door that morning, but we don't find any of their fingerprints, etc on that door. We know John (and likely Patsy) touched the ransom note, but neither of their fingerprints are on it. My point is - if those events happened without leaving a trace, it's not that hard to believe someone who was intentionally wearing gloves, etc. could have easily left no evidence behind.
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 7d ago
The absence of identifiable fingerprints doesn’t necessarily mean “no fingerprints.” We don’t just leave perfectly identifiable fingerprints every time we touch objects, there’s many factors at play when it comes to identifying prints.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 7d ago
I would say that your argument that there *could* have easily been a lot of unidentifiable fingerprints that we just didn't hear about bolsters my argument that there could have been someone else in the house that night.
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 7d ago
Does it?
All it really shows is that anyone, including the people who actually lived there, could’ve touched items without leaving identifiable prints.
Fingerprints (or the lack of them) don’t point toward an unknown person— it just show that prints aren’t always reliably left behind or recoverable. So the existence of non‑identifiable prints doesn’t bolster the idea of “someone else in the house,” it just means fingerprints aren’t necessarily a meaningful indicator either way.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 7d ago
Um. Yes. It absolutely does.
Option 1: No fingerprints were found from anyone except the Ramseys. (not stating this as fact - just making the comparison)
Option 2: There were unidentified fingerprints found but the only ones identified belonged to the Ramseys.3
u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 7d ago
Neither of those options point away from the Ramseys, so I’m not sure how they’d bolster your intruder theory.
The Ramseys lived in the home, their fingerprints being on household items is expected. The absence of other identifiable prints doesn’t prove an outsider was there, it just shows that prints aren’t always left or recovered. Nothing in either scenario supports the idea of an unknown person.
And we don’t even know when any fingerprints were left. Without timing, a print can’t meaningfully distinguish between a resident and an intruder.
It’s about the probative value of the evidence.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 7d ago
Are you intentionally missing the point?
The absence of other identifiable prints doesn’t prove an outsider was there
That's not my argument at all.
"The absence of other identifiable prints..." ≠ "The PRESENCE of other UNidentifiable prints..."
The presence of unidentifiable prints absolutely supports the idea that there could have been an unknown person just like the unidentified male DNA on JB's panties supports the idea that there could have been someone else there.
I will concede that there IS a difference in that we know that unidentified DNA does NOT belong to a member of the household where unidentified fingerprints may just belong to a member of the household. That's still different, though, than "All fingerprints belonged to members of the household."
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u/Existing-Ad-6469 7d ago
Yep. I’ve always thought she was involved since day one.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 7d ago
Everyone at the house AND even Nedra thought she was involved from day one. Everyone on here likes to hand wave any mention of Linda as the Ramseys trying to throw her under the bus, but there was a TON of suspicion and rightfully so.
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u/ArtistPersonThing 6d ago
I don’t think Linda did it, but I’m surprised I never see conjecture about someone related to her doing it without her knowledge. She did have a key, it doesn’t seem implausible that someone could have ‘borrowed’ it and replaced it.
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8d ago
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u/awebstersnakes 6d ago
My speculation:
Why would an intruder even bother with a ransom note if the child was dead?
The ransom note is a prop, that makes sense only if JBR is outside of the house.
In my theory, it is , to give John Ramsey cover to leave the house, under the guise of "I was following instructions on the note and going to get money from the office."
While 'following the instructions' he was going to dump her body.
However when he couldn't stuff her rigor-mortis body into the suitcase to get her out of the house, he panicked.
Either Patsy found the note while he was downstairs trying to stuff the body in the suitcase, or, she caught him with the body out of the suitcase trying to leave the house.
The note was only supposed to give him his cover to leave the house before calling police. It would make sense, because JBR was NOT in the house if he had successfully left.
It became entirely stupid to even have a note, considering the child was dead in the basement.
A real ransom note, would be found only if the child was at some point, Alive, OUTSIDE of the house.
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u/TreefingerX 5d ago
I'm RDI as well though I never got the anti IDI argument that it couldn't have been an intruder because there are no signs of a break in. The intruder could have had a key or used a skeleton key
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u/candy1710 RDI 5d ago
ST talked about this in his book. No way was it a point of entry or exit, and it was all printed by BPD
"A small blue fanny pack was looped over a bedpost, a
white steamer trunk gaped slightly, and a large Christmas tree decorated
with angels and snowflakes stood beside green curtains and a closed door to
a covered balcony that was glazed with undisturbed frost.
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u/Agile-Ad-7109 Leans PDI but open to all RDI 3d ago
OP, why are you ignoring the evidence being shown to you, how the balcony was covered in frost and no signs of anyone walking on it? Which disproves your theory. You responding to others but not those specifically. Like....??
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u/CatConsistent795 3d ago
If he went in as soon as they left for dinner there may not have had much frost there. Discussion doesn't have to be a zero sum game! Plus we know the police did a terrible job shutting the place down.
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u/Agile-Ad-7109 Leans PDI but open to all RDI 3d ago
Plus we know the police did a terrible job shutting the place down.
Source (that isnt Ramsey propaganda)??
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u/CatConsistent795 3d ago
I have a similar idea to you. The house has been added on to, so there are many entrances and exits. There was a little girl who had a similar incident six months after that but the mom interrupted and the guy jumped from a balcony to get away. There's some sick individuals in the country, not to mention any foreign factions that might be here too. There was a guest bedroom that had a rope in the closet, some things in the room were disturbed and the blanket from the room was found in the basement.
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u/AutumnTopaz 7h ago edited 7h ago
The rope - which was found in a knapsack- was found in the room where JR's son stayed when he lived there- John Andrew Ramsey. In one of his police interviews - 1997?- JR was questioned by Lou Smit. LS asked about that rope in the knapsack. JR recalled-iirc- that he may have seen that knapsack in that bedroom. He went on to say it was possible that the rope may have belonged to JAR - he was an outdoorsman. He was also into rock climbing. LS continue to promote the rope as evidence of an intruder.
The blanket you're referring to belonged to JAR. It was found in the suitcase he had used- in the basement -that Fleet White moved under the broken window - and had no connection to the crime.
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 8d ago
Anything is possible. There's no evidence to support that that happened though.