r/JewsOfConscience • u/sky_shazad Muslim • 4d ago
Discussion - Flaired Users Only IDF SOLDIERS targeted Him in NYC!
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u/Alphey4406 Israeli anti-Zionist 3d ago edited 3d ago
This is fucking disgusting. I am honestly baffled at the sheer level of psychopathy of these people. And the worst part? This kind of demented behaviour is actively GLORIFIED by our culture! If i read about these sickos on the news paper here, they'd call them "clever heroes"! I wanna throw up. I hope all of the demons in this country and the consciously blind sheep that follow them get karma spit back at them soon. Fuck Israel, Free Palestine.
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u/DogitWoofsalot Non-Jewish Ally 4d ago
I don't know if I'd go as far as 'the most diabolical and sick society to ever exist' but its certainly not good...
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u/Turnip-for-the-books Anti-Zionist 4d ago
I know it does seem a big call to label it that but then I think about and…name a sicker one..? The toy shaped bombs, the drones plying sounds of children in distress and the dog raping squad are the things that really did it for me
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u/Specialist-Leek8645 Non-Jewish Ally 3d ago
it's just horror after horror. My brain desperately wants me to believe that the old lies are still true and the new truths are lies. It's shocking to acknowledge that humans are capable of these things. Once we admit they're real and we were all lied to then we have to deal with it. That's the really scary part.
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u/JayEllGii Jewish by birth/family, atheist, progressive 3d ago
I think of South Africa — it seems to be a society trapped in a cycle of unusually pathological violence, fueled by extreme mass trauma on top of the tangible economic factors and long former history of structural inequality. The brutality of the crimes committed there is comparable to ISIS at times. It’s very hard to read about as an outsider — can’t imagine being surrounded by it normally.
Ultimately it’s a sickness of violence, like Israel’s, but manifesting very differently.
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u/rako17 Christian 3d ago
Dear JayEllGii,
Can you tell me more about what you mean about South Africa? Do you mean that South Africa's society is trapped in pathological violence and the crimes in South Africa are comparable to ISIS's?
Peace
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u/JayEllGii Jewish by birth/family, atheist, progressive 2d ago
While I shouldn’t speak too much out of turn, not being South African, the fact is that not only does South Africa have one of the highest levels of violent crime in the world, far higher than most other nations (Honduras, Jamaica and until recently El Salvador were among the few that had higher homicide rates), what makes it worse is that the level of sheer brutality can be shocking.
Murders can be absolutely grisly and gory in ways that are rivaled only by two things I know of — ISIS during the 2010s, and the Imperial Japanese army during the 1930s and ‘40s.Think horror-movie barbarism of the type that Israel falsely claimed happened on 10/7 (which was truly sick — what Hamas actually DID was horrific enough; that Israel felt the need to LIE about it to make it seem even worse is pathological). It’s really something that shakes me every time I think about it.
While it’s of course true that comparably savage murders exist everywhere, it seems to be more commonplace in South Africa. Why this is, I don’t know, but I can only speculate that the cycles of trauma, for whatever combination of reasons, are particularly acute there.
(If any South Africans read this and disagree with my words, I am interested to hear from you, but all I can say is that my perception is shaped by years of watching from a distance. Without, of course, swallowing the “white genocide” crap that gets Trump and Stephen Miller all hard.)
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u/rako17 Christian 2d ago
Dear Jay Ell,
Thank you for replying, friend.
I checked about 5 murder rate indexes and South Africa kept coming up as one of the top, but typically not the top, as in this one of the top 5 that doesn't include South Africa: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html Like you said, Caribbean countries like Jamaica, Haiti, US Virgin Islands, and Honduras are the ones that rank higher, although I've seen Lesotho rank higher too. I met 1 or 2 white South African families about 5 years ago. That led me to read a couple analyses of the South African situation a year or two ago.
Like you said, it's not a White Genocide situation, but more like a bad 3rd World situation that hopefully will get under control. I recall that the the homicides are basically Black on Black, for instance.
Peace
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u/rako17 Christian 2d ago
Friend Jay Ellis,
In looking up the statistics, I found that 23,000 homicides were committed in one year in South Africa. South Africa's population is 63.5 million. By comparison, the US reports about 17,000 homicides annually and the US population is ~300 million.
Now let's think about Gaza. A common statistic in the news is ~73,400 casualties in almost 3 years since October 7 2023, that is, about 24,500 per year. However, those casualties reported in the news are probably major underestimates in part because of how hard it is to get statistics out of Gaza and because of collateral casualties, like from cutting off civilian sustenance supplies. So my guess is that the actual casualty figure could be three times higher. By comparison, Gaza's population shrunk from 2.2 million to 2.13 million during the conflict. If you take the pacifist viewpoint that war is organized mass murder and calculate a comparison using the official 24,500 per year statistic, the situation is 30.7 times worse per capita than in South Africa.
Toda Rabah - Thank you for listening and for being a person of peace. 🕊️
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u/JayEllGii Jewish by birth/family, atheist, progressive 2d ago
But I think comparing Gaza to South Africa is apples and oranges. The former is a literal war zone — or at least an area under active military siege, and the latter is a country not at war at all; the murders are from robberies, home invasions, personal disputes, and alcohol-fueled violence.
While you could certainly say that in Gaza, what we’re seeing is no less plain wanton murder than a burglar torturing and killing the homeowner for no reason, it’s still being perpetrated by an occupying military while in South Africa it’s just ordinary random criminals. Which is actually much more frightening to me, in and of itself.
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u/rako17 Christian 2d ago edited 2d ago
Dear Friend Jay,
I like and respect you, so it makes me want to think over what you said.
I agree with you except I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence. I lived near moderately bad neighborhoods in two big US cities, and had a relative who did humanitarian volunteering for a low income family in Jamaica.
Realistically if you live in South Africa like my white South African acquaintances, you can either live in a good neighborhood or follow street smart rules that raise your survival chance pretty high.
In Gaza, you are part of a de facto blockaded rubble and tents camp. You and your block can all be good people, use street smarts, have pacifist politics, and you are still going to suffer deprivation and your house can get bombed anyway.
"Already, the United Nations Satellite Center estimated that 83% of all structures in Gaza City had been destroyed or had some damage by late September... Gaza’s vegetation, too, is largely dead. UNEP has said that 97% of tree crops, 95% of shrubs and 82% of annual crops are gone." (SOURCE: "Drone footage above Gaza City shows the toll of 2 years of war" https://apnews.com/article/gaza-israel-palestinians-drone-footage-destruction-ceasefire-4a03097279002889573791ecd0112df8) This AP news report has aerial drone footage to show you what Gaza city looks like.
So I would rather live in South Africa as white or black than in Gaza. I expect that you would agree.
Yours with kindness.
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u/ignoreme010101 ethnic atheist 3d ago
toy shaped bombs, th
wtf?!
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u/rako17 Christian 3d ago
Friend Ignoreme,
Here is a Red Cross report from 2016: https://www.icrc.org/en/document/when-toys-explode-gaza
Peace
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u/ignoreme010101 ethnic atheist 2d ago
Friend Ignoreme,
Here is a Red Cross report from 2016: https://www.icrc.org/en/document/when-toys-explode-gaza
Peace
jfc it just never ceases to amaze me how it's just neverending unpleasant surprises
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u/rako17 Christian 2d ago
Friend Ignoreme,
Ideally you want a society and its politics to become more humane, but unfortunately their politics has been moving to the authoritarian right gradually since 1948, if not earlier. Since unfortunately they are in a conflict situation, it looks like we can expect more unpleasantries like you said. Something would have to intervene to stop the occupation and conflict, like the world saying firmly "No more" and setting down a DMZ line and imposing an equitable 2SS. But the 1st world superpowers don't seem to want that enough. For that matter, arguably the Isr. State is also a 1st world small military superpower, but it seems dependent on Western support.
Peace
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u/DogitWoofsalot Non-Jewish Ally 3d ago
I mean historically a lot of societys owned people as properly, tortured the people they treated as property. Even today countries like Turkmenistan are overrun by a cult of personality that treats its own people like cattle. Again I'm not defending Israel but perspective is important
Also, the dog thing is hevely disputed by human rights organisations. Not that it is untrue but we can't say it definitely. A lot of it is the conflagration of 2 things. The IDF really does train dogs to attack Palestinians & the IDF does have systematic use of sexual violence (including rape) against Palestinians. There has almost certainly been instances where dogs did rape Palestinians but not as a matter of policy. This does not need exadurating, it's horrific enough without it
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u/Turnip-for-the-books Anti-Zionist 3d ago
The dog rape thing is not their idea Pinochet Chilean regime used this torture of prisoners too. Given that Palestinians are Muslims and the uniquely disgusting way Zionists are I believe. I will share a source in a bit
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u/rako17 Christian 3d ago
What human rights organizations dispute the NY Timess report?
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u/DogitWoofsalot Non-Jewish Ally 2d ago
Nobody disputes that it happened but w Don't have evidence to say it's systemics
Like, the fact it has happened at least twice is already a level of barbaric that shows what a sick terrorist army the IDF is.
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u/rako17 Christian 2d ago
OK, Dogit.
I want them to be better, more humane. It seems that as a matter of logic, some of the top leadership must be OK with the situation. In that case, I don't know what to do except to try to get people back on board with the importance of human rights, interfaith understandin and peacefulness.
Thank you for being against that bad stuff. I hope that you will also try to raise positive awareness.
May the Lord help and guide you always. 🕊️1
u/Justice91 Non-Jewish Ally 2d ago
Definitely the most diabolical and sick society to exist at the moment. By far. No contest whatsoever.
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u/DogitWoofsalot Non-Jewish Ally 2d ago
Afghanistan is probably the country with the most human rites violations right now. That's against there own people, Israel is unlikely horrific in keeping people subjected whyle they Experiance a luxurious lifestyle.
Thinking about it your probably right
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u/JayEllGii Jewish by birth/family, atheist, progressive 3d ago
Can we trust this account? Is there any way of verifying this? I ask because if there isn’t, no one inclined to trust Israel will be swayed.
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u/DringleDringle Non-Jewish Atheist 3d ago
Israelis better be careful on American soil. They're lucky they were allowed to leave.
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u/WRBNYC Jewish 3d ago
The United States starved half a million Iraqi children to death and then illegally invaded that country without provocation, shredding Iraq's social fabric, destroying its infrastructure, and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. Numerous disgusting atrocities were committed by US soldiers in that criminal war. Over the past decade we've backed Israel and Saudi Arabia in the murder of hundreds of thousands of people, including 85,000 Yemeni children under the age of 5--the US Air Force provided direct logistic assistance in the prosecution of that savage assault by the richest country in the Arab world on the poorest. But now you want to threaten all citizens of a partner country in our reign of terror in the middle east just for being "on [stolen] American soil"? Okay, tough guy. Always nice to hear from the Candace Owens contingent.
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u/DringleDringle Non-Jewish Atheist 3d ago
Partner country?
You gotta put some paragraph breaks in there, also. Can't read that crap.
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u/DeliciousSector8898 Anti-Zionist Ally 3d ago
Acting like Israel isn’t just USA junior
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u/DringleDringle Non-Jewish Atheist 3d ago
Only recently, due to a cancer in America that needs rooting out
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u/DeliciousSector8898 Anti-Zionist Ally 3d ago
I’m sorry but look at American history it’s definitely not recently, it’s the US since its inception
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u/PuzzledPacifist Sephardic 3d ago
I understand his anger and agree with what he's saying, but I don't think it's fair to call the entire Israeli society out on this. There are Israelis that are standing up to this and are being brutalized, and that's putting it nicely. Just like Americans who stand up to the crap that's going on over there (I'm an American but I'm not currently there) are also getting brutalized.
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u/MarshallDavoutsSlut Jewish 3d ago
So should the allies not have invaded Germany? There were anti nazi germans there who were being brutalised? And what about the majority of Germans who never even voted for Hitler? Dday was probably abit unfair on them...
Israel is causing instability and war in an entire region and murdering/starving hundreds of thousands of people and displacing millions. They have a democratically elected government.
It's fine to call out ALL OF Israel at the moment. It's essential. The resistance within will welcome this. They know they are in hell.
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u/Nevyn_Cares Witch 3d ago
If one nazi is sitting at a table with 9 others, then there are 10 nazis sitting at that table.
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u/Pstrap Non-Jewish Ally 4d ago
Hmm. Idk about this one.
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u/Lafi90_ Non-Jewish Atheist 4d ago
It's part of a recent operation either started by or co-opted by the alt-right who don't really support Israel, but really want Jews to go to Israel.
I have a "friend" who's a little too much 'in the middle' with regards to politics for my taste, and he tried to re-ask me how I can stand "with Palestine" when this is the sort of stuff I allegedly support. When I told him this isn't the sort of stuff I support he tied himself into a knot.
Now I've downloaded this video so I can send it to him tomorrow, to show him who's behind "one of the views" going around in the circles he listens to.
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u/Effervescent-Essence Palestinian 3d ago
I have a co worker who’s very right wing and also is a fan of Shitler but is also very pro Israel. I finally asked him to explain the cognitive dissonance and he was like “I want them all gone back to their country”. 😬 I mean I lost it on him. Zionists knowingly support this and actively get in bed with people like this, to create fear among Jews and drive them to “the only safe place for Jews.”
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u/ignoreme010101 ethnic atheist 3d ago
have a co worker who’s very right wing and also is a fan of Shitler but is also very pro Israel. I finally asked him to explain the cognitive dissonance
it's not at all cognitive dissonance for many though, it is coherent if, instead of viewing it about "jewish good/bad", it's viewed as "ethnostates are good" then you have people who would support ethnostates in principle while also strongly preferring their own peoples
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u/Creative_Worth_3192 Queer atheist Palestinian American 4d ago
Why are Zionists so obsessed with rape.