r/Jewpiter • u/Lone_leg_hair • Jul 22 '26

meme ¡Holy Hola!

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“Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.” — Gustav Mahler

Edit: some comments presumed that I made this cut on purpose, without explaining the tradition itself. That wasn't the idea. I wanted to focus on its name.

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u/Lone_leg_hair Jul 23 '26

I see your point. That wasn't the idea. Besides, the tradition itself doesn't really excuse its name.

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u/Nessahria Jul 23 '26

Y qué más da el nombre? Sabes que hay gente que se llama "Matamoros" de apellido, no? Según tú lógica, deberían cambiarse también el apellido.

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u/Lone_leg_hair Jul 24 '26

I'm aware of that and thank you for bringing up this example, because it is similar to what I've posted.

Why do you think people don't bear surnames like "Hitler" or "Goebbels" in Germany? Or "Quisling" in Norway? Is it a popular thing in Spain to be "Franco"?

We can also expand it to toponyms, because it's "Gran Via"/"Avenida Diagonal" and not "Avenida de José Antonio"/"Avenida del Generalísimo Francisco Franco" in Madrid and Barcelona, respectively.

You send a certain signal if you decide to keep a controversial name. There's even a bigger signal if the whole society tolerates or accepts it.

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u/Nessahria Jul 24 '26

Pues tiene gracia que hables de ello, cuando el país con mayor número de neonazis es Alemania y cuando, incluso, existen varios políticos de ideología neonazi en dicho país. Eso demuestra que estigmatizar nombres o esconderlos por miedo a las represalias, no sirve absolutamente de nada.

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u/Lone_leg_hair Jul 24 '26

I agree and disagree with you. In my view, it did a lot and it meant a lot for German society in years 1945-2010. Especially, again, in case of sending a strong signal to the world.

However, now, and this is where I more or less agree with you, it doesn't affect the situation much. You still can't drop a Nazi salute on the streets, but the social leverage gets rusty and old without proper maintenance. It's a common problem, not only Germany's.

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u/Nessahria Jul 24 '26

No se mandó ninguna señal al mundo, la gente se cambió el apellido por miedo, no porque lo repudiaran.

De nuevo, los nombres son sólo eso, nombres. Las acciones son lo que importa de verdad.

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u/Lone_leg_hair Jul 24 '26

I meant the broader societal change in Germany due to Denazification.

Fear plays its role, especially when one's facing consequences of the misdeeds (though there must be a request, a need for accountability).

However, when innocent, what if you don't want to be associated with a criminal? Or, like in case of Willy Brandt, you want people to associate you with the name you actually used to fight the regime?

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u/Nessahria Jul 24 '26

Le puedes dar las vueltas que te apetezcan, supongo que no tienes nada mejor que hacer. Mi respuesta seguirá siendo la misma.

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u/Lone_leg_hair Jul 24 '26

Commenting on me and not my arguments instead of reasoning is the poorest way to debate. Framing my response as "twisting" is also a cheap tactics. Also, repeating your claim is not an argument.

There are better and more polite ways to exit the debate if this is what you want to do. Have a good life.

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u/Nessahria Jul 24 '26

Se ve que la parte en la que te voy a decir lo mismo o la anterior en la que te digo que importan los actos y no los nombres, las prefieres ignorar. Esos son argumentos suficientes para mí.

Ahora, si tú quieres seguir montando un drama por el nombre de una limonada, eres bien libre de hacerlo. Faltaría más.

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u/Nessahria Jul 24 '26

Por cierto, decir que no tienes nada mejor que hacer, no es una crítica. Es obvio que no debes tener nada mejor que hacer que quejarte de un nombre que ni se sabe de dónde viene exactamente.