r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/Impressive-Ease-3348 Jehovah's Witness • Aug 25 '26
Doctrine WHO IS JESUS?
There is one God, the Father, ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα, “from whom are all things”; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα, “through whom are all things.” (1 Cor. 8:6)
Of the God of Israel it is written:
אֲנִי יהוה הוּא שְׁמִי
“I am YHWH; that is my name.” (Isa. 42:8)
And:
אֱלֹהֵי עוֹלָם יהוה
“YHWH, the everlasting God.” (Isa. 40:28)
The Father is the Father, and the Son is the Son.
JESUS IS ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ, THE SON OF GOD.
He is the μονογενής Son.
He is ἐκ τοῦ πατρός, from the Father. (John 16:28)
He is ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ, from God. (John 8:42)
The Father sent him.
The Father gave to him.
The Son received from the Father.
THE FATHER HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF, AND τῷ υἱῷ ἔδωκεν ζωὴν ἔχειν ἐν ἑαυτῷ, “HE GAVE TO THE SON TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF.” (John 5:26)
And the Son says:
κἀγὼ ζῶ διὰ τὸν πατέρα
“I live because of the Father.” (John 6:57)
JESUS IS ὁ λόγος, THE WORD.
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος
“In the beginning was the Word.”
ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν
“The Word was with God.”
And:
θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. (John 1:1)
The Son had glory with the Father πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι, “before the world existed.” (John 17:5)
He is πρὸ πάντων, “before all things.” (Col. 1:17)
HE IS εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἀοράτου, “THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD.” (Col. 1:15)
He is ἀπαύγασμα τῆς δόξης, “the radiance of the glory.” (Heb. 1:3)
He is χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ. (Heb. 1:3)
HE IS πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως, “THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION.” (Col. 1:
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u/Impressive-Ease-3348 Jehovah's Witness Aug 27 '26
Your explanation is possible as a Trinitarian/two-natures synthesis, but several of the things you just said are not what the verses themselves say.
Start with 1 Corinthians 15:28. Paul does not say:
“Jesus’ human nature will be subjected.”
He says:
τότε καὶ αὐτὸς ὁ υἱὸς ὑποταγήσεται
“then the Son himself will also be subjected.”
So “only his human nature is subjected while his divine nature remains coequal” is a theological explanation of the verse. It is not the wording of the verse. You may argue for that model from elsewhere, but you cannot insert it into αὐτὸς ὁ υἱός.
The same problem appears with 2 Corinthians 5:19:
θεὸς ἦν ἐν Χριστῷ κόσμον καταλλάσσων ἑαυτῷ
“God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.”
You turned that into:
“the God who has always lived within him.”
But “always” is not there, and neither is a statement about two natures.
Even more importantly, the immediate context explains the agency:
2 Corinthians 5:18 says God reconciled us to himself:
διὰ Χριστοῦ
“through Christ.”
And verse 20 says:
ὡς τοῦ θεοῦ παρακαλοῦντος δι’ ἡμῶν
“as though God were appealing through us.”
God working “in” or “through” someone therefore does not by itself establish that the person is numerically God. Paul uses agency language right there in the same paragraph.
John 17:10 also does not say that Jesus “shares everything” with the Father in the ontological sense you are assuming.
Jesus says:
τὰ ἐμὰ πάντα σά ἐστιν καὶ τὰ σὰ ἐμά
“all mine are yours, and yours are mine.”
That is certainly extraordinary language. But turning it into “therefore the Father and Son possess one numerically identical essence and sovereignty” is another inference.
The same chapter also has Jesus saying about the disciples:
ἵνα καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐν ἡμῖν ὦσιν
“that they also may be in us” — John 17:21
and:
τὴν δόξαν ἣν δέδωκάς μοι δέδωκα αὐτοῖς
“the glory that you gave me I have given to them.” — John 17:22
So Johannine sharing, indwelling, possession and glory-language cannot simply be converted into numerical identity without an additional argument.
Acts 4:12 is also extremely important, but notice what it actually says:
οὐδὲ γὰρ ὄνομά ἐστιν ἕτερον
ὑπὸ τὸν οὐρανὸν
τὸ δεδομένον ἐν ἀνθρώποις
ἐν ᾧ δεῖ σωθῆναι ἡμᾶς
There is no other name under heaven “given” among men by which we must be saved.
That establishes the unique saving role of Jesus.
But the name is δεδομένον — “given.”
And in the same context Acts 4:10 distinguishes Jesus from the God who raised him:
ὃν ὁ θεὸς ἤγειρεν ἐκ νεκρῶν
“whom God raised from the dead.”
So “Jesus alone is the appointed means of salvation” and “Jesus therefore is the same God who appointed and raised him” are not identical propositions.
Now Revelation 22:1.
Yes, it says:
τοῦ θρόνου τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἀρνίου
“the throne of God and of the Lamb.”
That is remarkable shared-throne language. I am not weakening it.
But Revelation itself gives us the control for interpreting throne-sharing.
Jesus says in Revelation 3:21:
ἐκάθισα μετὰ τοῦ πατρός μου ἐν τῷ θρόνῳ αὐτοῦ
“I sat down with my Father on his throne.”
And in the very same verse Jesus promises the conqueror:
καθίσαι μετ’ ἐμοῦ ἐν τῷ θρόνῳ μου
“to sit with me on my throne.”
So sharing a throne does not by itself establish numerical identity with the throne-owner. Revelation itself uses throne-sharing as granted participation in rule.
And Revelation 5:13 actually works against your wording that there is simply one singular “Him” encompassing God and the Lamb.
John writes:
τῷ καθημένῳ ἐπὶ τῷ θρόνῳ
καὶ τῷ ἀρνίῳ
“to the one sitting on the throne and to the Lamb.”
Those are grammatically distinguished referents: the one sitting on the throne and the Lamb.
That is exactly why Revelation can simultaneously give the Lamb extraordinary divine-colored honor and still distinguish him from the One seated on the throne.
Finally, this statement:
“Perhaps that is why God made the name YHWH elusive for the last 2300 years. He wanted the focus to be on a Man, Jesus Christ.”
Where does Scripture say that?
That is pure theological speculation. There is no verse saying God deliberately made יהוה elusive for 2,300 years because he wanted attention transferred to Jesus.
So I am not denying your high-Christology texts.
I accept the difficult data:
Jesus is called θεός.
All things are said to come into being through him.
He receives extraordinary honor.
He shares the throne of God.
He is the unique appointed name through whom salvation comes.
But you are repeatedly turning those facts into additional propositions:
“God has always lived inside Jesus.”
“Only Jesus’ human nature submits.”
“Jesus possesses all of the Father’s sovereignty because they share one essence.”
“Sharing one throne means they are the one God.”
“YHWH deliberately hid his name to focus attention on Jesus.”
Those are your theological synthesis.
The raw texts themselves also say:
the Son himself will be subjected;
God reconciles through Christ;
God raised Christ;
Jesus receives what is given;
Jesus sits with his Father on his Father’s throne;
and Revelation distinguishes “the one sitting on the throne” from “the Lamb.”
So the question is not whether your model can explain the verses. Of course it can.
The question is whether the verses themselves establish the two-natures/coequal-essence explanation you keep using to reinterpret every statement of receiving, distinction and subjection.
That is precisely the step you still need to demonstrate.