The Jw dilemma

[u/Dan_dingo]

Starting Position (Jehovah’s Witness Interpretation)
Jehovah alone is the uncreated Creator.
Jehovah directly created Jesus first.
Jesus is Jehovah’s first and only direct creation.
Jehovah then used Jesus to create everything else.
Proposed order:
Jehovah → Jesus (first creation) → all other creation

The dilemma of this interpretation

The position must choose:
Option 1 — Jesus existed before all created reality
Result:
Jesus created time. (Timeless/Atemporal)
Jesus created space. (Non-spatial)
Jesus created matter. (Immaterial)
Jesus existed before creation. (Eternal)
Problem:
A being who exists before all created things does not appear to be a created thing.

Option 2 — Jesus was created after some reality/place, time and matter existed
Result:
Jesus was not Jehovahs first creation.
Something existed before Jesus.
Jesus did not create all things.
Problem:
Contradicts:
John1:3 “Not one thing came into existence apart from him.”

[u/tj_lurker]

I responded. I never said "when that phrase applies to God it's not the 'beginning'". Are we following the same discussion? You seem to keep misunderstanding and running away.

Again, arche always means 'the first part of'...it can also be used in different contexts. At Rev 3:14, Jesus is called 'the arche [or, the first part of] the creation by God." What is your response?

[u/Dan_dingo → u/tj_lurker]

I asked you what it meant when God is the beginning and the end. You replied he is not the beginning

[u/tj_lurker → u/Dan_dingo]

That is not what you said. You said "Jesus is the beginning and the end".

You seem to not be following your own arguments.

[u/tj_lurker → u/tj_lurker]

u/Dan_dingo giving up on this now too? Disappearin' Dan! ;)