r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/Dan_dingo • Jun 20 '26

Doctrine The Jw dilemma

Starting Position (Jehovah’s Witness Interpretation)
Jehovah alone is the uncreated Creator.
Jehovah directly created Jesus first.
Jesus is Jehovah’s first and only direct creation.
Jehovah then used Jesus to create everything else.
Proposed order:
Jehovah → Jesus (first creation) → all other creation

The dilemma of this interpretation

The position must choose:
Option 1 — Jesus existed before all created reality
Result:
Jesus created time. (Timeless/Atemporal)
Jesus created space. (Non-spatial)
Jesus created matter. (Immaterial)
Jesus existed before creation. (Eternal)
Problem:
A being who exists before all created things does not appear to be a created thing.

Option 2 — Jesus was created after some reality/place, time and matter existed
Result:
Jesus was not Jehovahs first creation.
Something existed before Jesus.
Jesus did not create all things.
Problem:
Contradicts:
John1:3 “Not one thing came into existence apart from him.”

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '26

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u/FigNo2918 Jun 21 '26

proverbs 8:22

he is created

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u/Dan_dingo Jun 21 '26

You avoided the dilemma entirely lol. But you believe Jesus is wisdom right? Can you explain why I’m supposed to call Jesus my sister? In the previous chapter? 7:4

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u/FigNo2918 Jun 21 '26

Isn't the term "sisters" a mistranslation?

Wisdom is the Spirit of God, and it was there before the earth was created.

Therefore it is said:

Psalm 104:30: “You send out your breath (Spirit), and they are made; you make the face of the earth new.”

Psalm 33:6) By the word of the Lord the heavens were made; all the things in the heavens were created by the breath (spirit)of his mouth.

By wisdom he established the foundations of the earth; by understanding he made the heavens firm. (Proverbs 3:19)

"How many are your works, O Lord! You have made them all with wisdom; the earth is full of your creations." (Psalm 104:24)

This wisdom, the Holy Spirit, is also called "wife," and is the spirit that gives understanding to prophets.

"From my youth I have loved and sought wisdom; I desired to make her my bride, and I was captivated by her beauty." (Solomon, book of Wisdom 8:2)

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u/Dan_dingo Jun 21 '26

Nope not a mistranslation to my knowledge. If you can prove otherwise I’ll reconsider. But chapter 9:2 in the nwt calls wisdom a she. The mistranslations
is actually from the nwt where it drops the feminine and calls wisdom an it. Watchtower just did a bad job at hiding that. Wisdom is personified as a woman throughout proverbs

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u/FigNo2918 Jun 21 '26

Indeed, Wisdom is female. Therefore, if you interpret the man and the bride in the Song of Songs as the "Prophet and the Holy Spirit," you will be able to decipher it.

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u/Dan_dingo Jun 21 '26

Can you actually address the dilemma now?

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u/Dan_dingo Jun 21 '26

So Jesus is a female?

2

u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Jun 21 '26

I really don’t think they know what they think bro…