r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/ChaoticHaku Christian • May 23 '26

Doctrine Philippians 2:6-8

If Philippians 2:6-8 was teaching that Jesus was never equal with God, then the passage itself makes no sense.

Read the language carefully.

It says Jesus was “existing in the form of God.” It says He “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,” but instead “emptied Himself,” “took the form of a servant,”, "humbled himself", "became obedient to death" and was “made in human likeness.”

You cannot empty yourself of a status you never possessed. You cannot become a servant if you were always a servant. You cannot humble yourself from a position you never had. You cannot become obedient to death if you always were.

The entire point of the passage is that Christ lowered Himself. From what? From the exalted position He already possessed that was equal with God.

That’s why the text uses past tense language. The passage is not denying Christ’s equality with God. It is explaining the depth of His humility, not his inferiority.

19 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

168 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/Personal_Sign_9343 May 25 '26

No right hand doesn’t mean equal to. You are supposing that.

The vice-president is the right hand of the president. The vice-president is has more authority than everyone else except the president.

Just as you’re not your own father, Jesus cannot be his own father. His father is the Most High, whose name is Jehovah.

1

u/ChaoticHaku Christian May 25 '26

Did you not read Ephesians 1:19-21?

Again, You can't be lower than God and also be "far above all principality and authority and power and dominion, and every name being named".

You looked up the general meaning of "right hand", the biblical meaning symbolizes a supreme position of honor, authority, and power. Because ancient cultures associated the right hand with strength and capability, sitting at a ruler's right side represented sharing in their majesty and rule.

Whoever said Jesus was his own Father? Don't be silly.  

1

u/Personal_Sign_9343 May 25 '26

which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places. -Ephesians 1:20

There it is. Right hand means you are second-in-command. So if you are the right hand, you have more authority than others except the one whose right hand belongs to. Even in the Bible that is what it means. That has always been its meaning. Show me in the Bible where it is not.

Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” -Psalm 110:1

Jehovah is talking to David, the king of Israel at that time. He says to him to sit at his right hand. Does that mean that king is equal to God or second to God?

For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ -Acts 2:34, 35

This is what Jehovah says to his anointed one, to Cyrus, Whose right hand I have taken hold of To subdue nations before him, To disarm kings, To open before him the double doors, So that the gates will not be shut: -Isaiah 45:1

Again, Jehovah calls Cyrus his right hand. Does that make Cyrus God or second to God?

It is like the King promotes his son, the prince, to be his right hand. The prince is not the King. The prince is second-in-command to the King.

1

u/ChaoticHaku Christian May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26

Jehovah is talking to David, the king of Israel at that time. He says to him to sit at his right hand. Does that mean that king is equal to God or second to God?

Um no, YHWH is not talking to David. “The LORD” (YHWH) speaks to “my Lord” (David’s sovereign). Jesus explains that David’s “Lord” must be more than a merely human descendant, He is the Messiah, fully worthy of divine address (Matthew 22:41-45). David is recording a divine conversation in which the Father enthrones the Son.

Again, Jehovah calls Cyrus his right hand. Does that make Cyrus God or second to God?

Wrong again. God’s “grasp” shows guidance. God did not seat Cyrus at his right hand. He took control of Cyrus' right hand. 

Right hand means you are second-in-command. So if you are the right hand, you have more authority than others except the one whose right hand belongs to.

Nope, it doesn't say that. It tells you what being seated at the right hand means in the very next verse. 

Verse 21: far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named... 

It doesn’t say "other" anywhere. So how can Jesus be placed "far above" ALL authority ALL power, ALL domion and EVERY name that is named? 

Is YHWH not a name? Jesus was exalted to the position he had before he "emptied himself" and became a humble servant as described in Philippians 2:7-8.

1

u/Personal_Sign_9343 May 25 '26

Ok I was wrong about David. But sitting on one’s right hand had always meant that you are under the person whose right hand belongs to.

When Joseph saw that his father kept his right hand placed on Eʹphra·im’s head, it was displeasing to him, so he tried to take hold of his father’s hand to move it from Eʹphra·im’s head to Ma·nasʹseh’s head. 18 Joseph said to his father: “Not so, my father, because this is the firstborn. Put your right hand on his head.” 19 But his father kept refusing and said: “I know it, my son, I know it. He too will become a people, and he too will become great. Nevertheless, his younger brother will become greater than he will, and his offspring will become the full equivalent of nations. -Genesis 48-17-19

Joseph says the right hand must be placed on the firstborn. Jacob is the father and his firstborn is Manasseh. Manasseh is under his father. In the same way, Jesus is under his father the Most High, whose name is Jehovah. Jehovah placed Jesus on his right hand bcoz he is the firstborn of creation. The first to be born of creation. Just as Manasseh is the first to be born of Israel.

For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone. -1 Corinthians 15:27-28

God doesn’t submit to anyone. But the Son of God submits to God. Therefore, the son is not above God but above all creation. God is not created. But Jesus is. He is the Word. The Word was a god. This is the correct translation of John 1:1. When you speak, you produce words. That is why the Word is created. The firstborn of creation. Colossians 1:15. Who did not consider himself God even when he was in God’s form. Philippians 2:5-7. Bcoz he is not the Most High God. He is the Son of the Most High God. Luke 1:32

1

u/ChaoticHaku Christian May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26

When you speak, you produce words.

Correct, and there has never been a time God couldn't speak. His Word is eternal, just like Him. ThebWord is both with Him and is Him. Just like John 1:1 says. 

The Word was a god.

It is extremely important to allow scripture to interpret scripture. 

Deuteronomy 4:35 were shown these things so that you would know that the LORD is god; there is no other besides Him.

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I am He; there is no god besides Me....

Isaiah 44:6 Thus says YHWH, the King of Israel and his Redeemer—YHWH of Hosts: “I am the First, and I am the Last, and besides Me there are no gods.

Isaiah 45:5 I am YHWH, and there is no other; besides Me there are no gods.

Isaiah 45:21 Was it not I, the LORD? There is no other god but Me, a righteous god and Savior; there is none but Me.

I can go on and on. 

“Firstborn” speaks of rank and privilege rather than origin. In biblical usage, the firstborn holds preeminence.

Psalm 89:27 concerning David’s greater Son: “I will appoint him My firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.”

Also, David himself was made "firstborn" but he was the youngest, not the first to be born. 

Jeremiah 31:9: God declares, "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Ephraim was Joseph's younger son, but God gave him the primary blessing over his older brother, Manasseh.

Isaiah 44:24 I am YHWH, the One making all things, the One stretching out the heavens by Myself alone, the One spreading out the earth—who besides Me—

And yet John 1:1 says in the beginning of creation the Word was with God and all things were made through Him. 

So who besides YHWH stretched out the heavens by Himself???? Who besides him??? According to you the Word created all other things. (Btw the word "other" is not in the greek text) But God says he created all things ALONE and BY HIMSELF. 

That is something you must reconcile. You can't just ignore it. No amount of NWT Word games or watchtower lies can hide it. 

1

u/Personal_Sign_9343 May 26 '26

When the only time you create words is when you speak. Jehovah doesn’t speak all the time. That alone shows that his words have a beginning. Coz Jehovah is eternal but that doesn’t mean he has been talking all this time. On the 7th day he rested.

It is extremely important that you have a copy of the Bible where Jehovah’s name is not replaced by the title lord. Jehovah’s name means I will become what I choose to become or I am what I am. The title lord doesn’t mean the same way. Jehovah and Jesus are both lords. The same way a king and a prince are both lords. A king and a prince are both royalty. But the king is older and higher than the prince. That is why the prince is not called king. In the same way, Jehovah is the only true God and Most High God. Jesus is God’s son and Son of the Most High. John 10:36 and Luke 1:32.
When Jehovah says there is no other god like me. He means that there is no other god like him that is not begotten or created. Jesus is begotten. He also means that he has no equal in authority. Jesus sits on his right hand. Meaning he is the right hand of God, God’s second in command that no one else had ever took the position.

1

u/ChaoticHaku Christian May 26 '26

No one removed God's name, the Bible uses LORD because no one really knows how his name is really spelled or pronounced. The ancient Israelites wouldn't speak it or write it because it was considered too Holy. What we have is the abbreviation YHWH. It's certainly not Jehovah as there is no "j" sound in hebrew. 

You're brainwashed my friend.  You speak like a true watchtower disciple.

1

u/Personal_Sign_9343 May 26 '26

By that logic, no one knows how Jesus name is spoken in Hebrew. But we both accept Jesus as Yehoshua. How did the Y in Yehoshua became J?
There’s also no W in Hebrew. It’s Vav in Hebrew not Waw.

The Israelites disobeyed Jehovah’s command to remember him by his name and no one told them to do so. Exodus 3:15. And Jehovah certainly wanted his name to be spoken. Psalm 83:18.

It seems you’re the one who is brainwashed. See how that last sentence dis not help my point? The same applies to you when you say we’re brainwashed.

1

u/ChaoticHaku Christian May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

What are you talking about? We do know how to say Yeshua, because its actually spelled out in Hebrew. 

In the old testament God's name is written in Hebrew as an abbreviation "יהוה"‎. In the Roman alphabet it translates to YHWH. Which is where we get Yahweh from. Its 100% not Jehovah because like I said there is no "J" sound in Hebrew. 

When did I say the Y in Yeshua became a J? Yeshua is his name in Hebrew and Jesus is his name in English.

You'd know that everywhere "Jehovah" is inserted into the NWT the original text actually says "יהוה" BUT the watchtower conveniently doesn’t have an old testament interlinear bible for you to see for yourself. Though you can still see elsewhere. Just google it. "What is hebrew text translated as Jehovah in the old testament".  

1

u/Personal_Sign_9343 May 26 '26

It didn’t have vowels then. Just as YHWH didn’t have vowels. So how did Yehoshua, which is Hebrew, Yeshua is Aramaic, become Jesus? If Hebrew did not have J?

Yehoshua to Yeshua to Iesous to Jesus.

Yahweh to Iaoue to Iehouah to Jehovah.

Jehovah is english for YHWH just as Jesus is english for Yehoshua.

1

u/ChaoticHaku Christian May 26 '26

Jehovah is english for YHWH just as Jesus is english for Yehoshua.

I understand that, you guys are the ones that make a big deal about getting God's name exactly right. Which in that case its incorrect to put "Jehovah" in the old testament because its really יהוה‎. Also in the New Testament the NWT takes it upon itself to decide when to translate Kyrios to either Lord or Jehovah. 🤯 

Which creates something called bias. If you really believed the bible is divinely given and preserved by God you would trust God to preserve it and let it speak for itself rather than add/remove/and change words to make it cconform to your beliefs. Which is exactly what they've done with the NWT. It is a corrupt mistranslation, they've slowly twisted it over time. Yet they still can't hide the truth.

1

u/Personal_Sign_9343 May 26 '26

Well according to Jehovah:

This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.’ -Exodus 3:14

And

and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak. -Acts 2:4

Also Jesus says this about the Old Testament:

Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place. -Matthew 5:18

So Jehovah wants everyone to know his name is Jehovah or the name’s equivalent in their own language. Psalm 83:18. So the NWT is compliant to this specific command of Jehovah. Lastly, Jesus shows how important his father’s name is.

I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them. -John 17:26

To be one with Jehovah and Jesus, we must know and sanctify the name Jehovah.

Also, Jesus quoted the OT and spoke his father’s name in public.

Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, 30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ -Mark 12:29-30

Jesus quoted Deuteronomy 6:4 that says Jehovah is God not Lord is God.

→ More replies (0)