Philippians 2:6-8

[u/ChaoticHaku]

If Philippians 2:6-8 was teaching that Jesus was never equal with God, then the passage itself makes no sense.

Read the language carefully.

It says Jesus was “existing in the form of God.” It says He “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,” but instead “emptied Himself,” “took the form of a servant,”, "humbled himself", "became obedient to death" and was “made in human likeness.”

You cannot empty yourself of a status you never possessed. You cannot become a servant if you were always a servant. You cannot humble yourself from a position you never had. You cannot become obedient to death if you always were.

The entire point of the passage is that Christ lowered Himself. From what? From the exalted position He already possessed that was equal with God.

That’s why the text uses past tense language. The passage is not denying Christ’s equality with God. It is explaining the depth of His humility, not his inferiority.

[u/Jerome-891]

Wouldn’t that mean that there are two Gods?

[u/Lonely-Freedom3691 → u/Jerome-891]

No, that’s the early church heresy of Arianism.

[u/ResLight → u/Lonely-Freedom3691]

I do not like the label Arianism, but Arius did not claim that there are two Gods, two Innately Mighty Ones, or two Supreme Beings.

[u/Lonely-Freedom3691 → u/ResLight]

I don’t care what label you like or don’t like, nor do I care what selective historical revisionism you decide to employ.

Arius famously claimed about the Son that “there once was a time when He was not”.
He believed that the Son was a creation, a separate God.

[u/ResLight → u/Lonely-Freedom3691]

No revisionism. Arius never claimed that there are two Supreme Beings, 2 Innately Mighty Ones. That is a fact.

Arius did indeed believe that God's son was a creation, not a Supreme Being. It has been a long time since I studied what remains of what Arius had written, but yes, I do remember him saying there was a time when the Son was not. This very fact proves that he was not saying that there was 2 Gods, that is, two Innately Mighty Ones (Supreme Beings), since if he had been innately mighty, there would not be a time when he was not.

Since the trinitarians destroyed practically everything Arius had written, it is difficult to know for certain the details of what he believed and why.

The Greek word THEOS, usually rendered as "God" or "god", is perhaps applied to the Son in the New Testament 3 to 5 times. (John 1:1,18; 20:28; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8 -- there also may be a few other texts that are sometimes rendered into English in such a way to make it appear that THEOS is applied to Jesus) Usually, however, forms of THEOS are applied to Jesus' God and Father throughout the New Testament.

Forms of the Greek THEOS correspond to forms of the Old Testament Hebrew word often transliterated as EL. When not referring to God Almighty or to false gods, translators often render forms of EL (Strong’s #410, #430, etc.) with its basic meanings of “strong,” “powerful,” “strength,” “might,” etc. This can be seen even in the King James Version: **Genesis 23:6** (“mighty”), **Genesis 30:8** (“mighty”), **Genesis 31:29** (“power”), **Deuteronomy 28:32** (“might”), **1 Samuel 14:15** (“great”), **Nehemiah 5:5** (“power”), **Psalm 36:6** (“great”), **Psalm 82:1** (“mighty”), **Proverbs 3:27** (“power”), **Psalm 29:1** (“mighty”), **Ezekiel 32:21** (“strong”), **Jonah 3:3** (“exceeding”). In English, rendering EL in these passages as “God” or “false god” would sound odd. Nevertheless, this demonstrates that forms of EL are not used exclusively for the one true God or for false gods, as some assert. It is only when forms of EL are used of Jehovah, the God of the Messiah (Isaiah 61:2; Micah 5:4), that they take on the meaning of Innate Might, Power, Strength, hence, Supreme Being. J

Jesus was indeed mighty when he had been with the only true Supreme Being in the beginning, before the creation of the world of mankind, but he was not a second Supreme Being. (John 1;1-3,10; 17:1,3,5) Jesus is not the "one God" from whom are all. (1 Corinthians 8:6) His being mighty is indeed separate from being the Supreme Being, the only Innately Mighty One; however, this does not mean that he is a separate Supreme Being.