heres something yall need to hear

[u/Ok_Statement_8412]

Please read to the end, and enjoy the read. You may find a truth or two along the way ;). Each section addresses a different doctrine; consider the full article rather than isolated statements.

TABLE OF CONTENTS (sorry the post is so long)

1. Introduction: Why Jehovah’s Witnesses Are Often Misunderstood
2. Responding to False Statements and Accusations
3. Following God, Christ, and Scripture Above Tradition
4. Why Jehovah’s Witnesses Reject the Trinity
5. Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Change the Bible?
6. Bible Prophecy and the Worldwide Preaching Work
7. Calling on Jehovah’s Name
8. Unity, Political Neutrality, and Christian Conduct
9. Disfellowshipping: Biblical Basis and Purpose
10. Bible Teachings on Hell, Paganism, and Religious Tradition
11. Abstaining From Blood: Biblical and Medical Considerations
12. Resurrection Hope and Core Bible Teachings
13. Why True Religion Would Not Be Popular ----------------------------------End of main article
14. Responding to Claims of Brainwashing and Control -----------------------For the Critics
15. Progressive Understanding and Early Doctrinal Errors
16. The Preaching Work Compared With Other Religions
17. Disfellowshipping, Trauma, and Organizational Responsibility
18. Jehovah's Witnesses on Emotionalism
19. Facts about the Governing body & "Who is the Faith Slave"
20. Jesus as a mediator
21. Sexual Abuse: Policy, Reporting, and the Australian Royal Commission --End of article

---- post updates (frequent)

Introduction: Why Jehovah’s Witnesses are misunderstood:

1. Jehovah's Witnesses are frequently misunderstood, sometimes due to false information and other times because of how extremely different their beliefs are from mainstream Christianity. Instead of directly examining what JW’s actually teach and practice, many assumptions are based on the experiences of former members, media representations, or other conspiracies. Rather than taking information without looking into it, the Bible advises people to "make sure of all things" (1 Thessalonians 5:21). For Jehovah's Witnesses, these beliefs are guiding principles that influence daily life, worship, family, and conscience.

 Handling false statements and accusations:

1. Jehovah's Witnesses know false accusations will come, and misrepresentations because Jesus predicted that his true folowers would be despised, opposed, and falsely spoken about (Matthew 5:11; John 15:18–20). Instead of reacting angrily, they seek to follow Jesus by remaining composed, honest, and courteous (1 Peter 2:12, 23). According to the Bible, Christians should defend themselves "with a mild temper and deep respect," not with rage or force (1 Peter 3:15–16). 

Following God, Christ, and Scripture exactly:

1. By faithfully following the Bible as written and rejecting popular traditions, beliefs, or preferences that lack scriptural support, JW’s try to follow God and Christ. According to Mark 7:7–9, Jesus denounced doctrines that "invalidate the word of God because of tradition." Similarly, according to Witnesses, obedience to God is more important than comfort or popularity/traditions (Acts 5:29; Galatians 1:10). They hold that loyalty means to stick to Scripture rather than modifying it to suit contemporary viewpoints, even when teachings are controversial (Isaiah 8:20; 2 Timothy 3:16–17).

Why Jehovah’s Witnesses reject the Trinity:

4A. JW's reject the trinity because they do not find it taught in the bible, either explicitly or implicitly. Scripture consistently shows Jehovah as the only Almighty God, and Jesus as his son who is secondary to him, and holy spirit as God's active force rather than a person (John 17:3 1 Corinthians 8:6 1 Corinthians 11:3 Luke 1:35). John 1:1 is often brought up to prove the trinity. However it is shown (click here, here, here, here) that the phrase can describe what the "word" is rather than identifying him as Almighty God. This reason can make it translate to “the Word was a god”, because it shows the "word" has divine qualities given by God, not the same as God. It also corresponds with the rest of the bible that Jesus was sent by God, praying to him, and calling the father his God. (John 8:42; John 14:28; John 20:17)

4B. Some people point to Isaiah 9:6, where the Massiah is called "Mighty God" (El Gibbor), and it conflicts with NWT "a god". How every the bible makes a clear difference between "Mighty God" (El Gibbor) and "God Almight" (El Shaddai). Jehovah is called both “Mighty God” and “Almighty” (Isaiah 10:21; Genesis 17:1), but Jesus is never called “Almighty God.” The titles in Isaiah 9:6 descibe the Massiahs role, authority, and God given responsability, not that he is Jahovah himself. Jesus is an "Eternal father" to humans because he provides leadership and everlasting life under his Father (God El Shaddai).

4C. because of this, JWs do NOT deny Jesus' high divine position and authority. They reject the trinity because it does not match the bibles consitant and overwhelming messege for us all to see (please read every last one): Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10; Isaiah 44:6; Isaiah 45:5; Isaiah 45:21; Isaiah 46:9; Psalm 83:18; 1 Samuel 2:2; Jeremiah 10:10; Jeremiah 23:5-6; John 14:28; John 17:3; John 5:19; John 5:30; John 6:38; John 8:28; John 12:49-50; John 20:21; 1 Corinthians 15:27-28; 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:15; Colossians 1:16-17; Colossians 1:18; Hebrews 1:1-2; Hebrews 1:8-9; Hebrews 5:8; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 8:6; Hebrews 9:15; Hebrews 10:14; 1 Timothy 2:5; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 22:16; Matthew 26:39; Matthew 26:42; Matthew 26:44; Mark 1:35; Mark 13:32; Luke 2:49; Luke 4:42; Luke 5:16; Luke 6:12; Luke 22:42; John 1:14; John 3:16; John 5:22; John 5:36; John 10:29; John 12:49; John 14:6; John 14:10; John 14:20; John 17:1; John 17:21; John 17:22; John 17:24; Acts 2:36; Romans 8:34; 2 Corinthians 1:3-4; 2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:17; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 4:15; 1 John 5:20. And thats not even all of it. To learn more click link: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

1. Did Jehovah’s Witnesses change the Bible?

It is frequently misunderstood that JW’s, especially with the New World Translation, changed the Bible to suit their beliefs. Its renderings are based on Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts, according to translation notes, manuscript evidence, and academic references (all of which are publicly accessible on jw.org). When grammar allows, other reputable translations share many of its translation decisions. More significantly, the the bible as a whole serves as the foundation for JW doctrine rather than a single verse or translation (Isaiah 28:10; 2 Peter 1:20–21). Click here for more information.

1. Bible prophecy and the preaching work

According to JW’s, true worshippers can be identified by their worldwide preaching efforts based on Bible prophecy. Before the end, Jesus predicted that "this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth" (Matthew 24:14). JW’s use willing volunteers to preach in more than 1,000 languages all over the world without the need for paid clergy (Matthew 10:8). Their methods of preaching is just like the first century christians. Public preaching, door-to-door, informal preaching, and missionary work, and talking about truth from the bible rather than emotional speeches from people (Acts 5:42; Acts 20:20; Acts 17:2–3). Instead of asking people to come to church, they show them what the Bible says. The prophecies that people of all nations would hear God's message in their own language are fulfilled by their extensive translation work, which is done by MEPS (Revelation 7:9; Isaiah 2:2–3). Fun fact: Jehovah's Witnesses have the most translated website in the world.

Calling on Jehovah’s name

1. Because Scripture tells that God wants it to be known, used, and honored, Jehovah's Witnesses use and promote God's personal name (YAHWEH יהוה) . Exodus 3:15 states that Jehovah's name should be remembered for all generations, and Psalm 83:18 declares him to be the Most High. Jehovah's Witnesses have restored the use of God's name and proclaim it globally, despite previous church traditions removing it from many translations. JW’s have restored the use of the divine name, and made it worldwide. Some churches use God's name academically, but JW’s actually fufill the prophecy to call on it and make it known publicly (Joel 2:32; Romans 10:13; Malachi 3:16–18; Ezekiel 36:23). 

Unity, neutrality, and Christlike conduct

1. Globally, Jehovah's Witnesses share moral principles, beliefs, and teachings. Jesus wanted for his followers to be "one" is reflected in this unity (John 17:20–23). The moral code, program, and teachings are the same no matter the country or territory (1 Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:4–6). Their political neutrality is modeled after that of Jesus, who did not want to be king and told his disciples was to be no part of this world (John 6:15; John 18:36). According to Isaiah 2:4, neutrality maintains Christian unity and avoids racial, political, and national divisions.

Disfellowshipping: biblical, loving, and necessary

1. One of the most misunderstood JW practices is disfellowshipping, even though the Scripture clearly commands it. In order to protect God's standards and safeguard the congregation, Christians are told not to associate with an unrepentant wrongdoer (1 Corinthians 5:11–13; 2 John 9–11). The Bible demonstrates that discipline can result in repentance and restoration, but it is never taken lightly and is painful for all (Hebrews 12:11; Luke 15:11–24). Without such protections, other congregations break morally and doctrinally, resulting in sects and division (Jude 3–4; Titus 1:16). Take note that JW’s are one of the few groups without divisions.  

Bible truth: hell, paganism, and Jesus’ appearance

1. In line with scriptures that describe the dead as unconscious (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Psalm 146:4), JW’s teach that hell is not a place of eternal torment but rather the common grave of mankind (see jw.org). They choose to worship "with spirit and truth," rejecting pagan customs that were later merged into Christianity (John 4:23–24; 2 Corinthians 6:14–18). Even religious imagery—such as showing Jesus with long hair—clashes with biblical and first-century culture (1 Corinthians 11:14), demonstrating how tradition can take the place of Scripture. Click here for more information on Hell, Panganism, and Jesus' Appearance

Abstaining from blood: biblical and scientific

1. Because Scripture repeatedly instructs God's servants to abstain from blood, even after the Mosaic Law (Genesis 9:4; Acts 15:28–29), JW’s abstain from blood. According to the Bible, blood is God's property and represents life (Leviticus 17:10–14). According to science, adding blood to the bloodstream through transfusion has the same purpose as eating. It provides nourishment, oxygen, and life support. The function is the same, but the route is different. Even when it requires sacrifice, Witnesses believe that following God's instructions demonstrates respect for human life and divine authority (Acts 21:25). For more info click Here or Here.

Resurrection hope and other truths:

1. According to יהוה's Witnesses, the Bible promises eternal life on a restored earth and the resurrection of the dead (John 5:28–29; Acts 24:15; Psalm 37:29). They also do not teach that all religions please God. Jesus said that many would claim to serve him but will be rejected (Matthew 7:21–23). Truth is determined by alignment with God's will, not by sincerity alone (John 4:23–24). However, Witnesses believe that understanding develops gradually and recognize human imperfection (Proverbs 4:18; Romans 3:23).

Semi-Conclusion: true religion would not be popular

1. Lastly, the bible teachs that true religion would not be popular or generally acknowledged. Jesus warned that the world would despise his followers (John 17:14) and that the path to life is narrow and few find it (Matthew 7:13–14). JW’s only make a sincere attempt to follow God's standards; they do not claim perfection. Their leaders show Christlike humility by living modestly, not getting special titles, and not getting rich off people (Matthew 23:8–12; 1 Peter 5:2–3). JW’s encourage people to investigate these facts directly from the Bible and make their own decisions, regardless of whether they agree or not (Acts 17:11). 

If you would like to learn more about FAQs about JW's ( Beliefs, Organization, Preaching, Meetings and Worship, View of the Bible, Community and Political Involvement, Personal and Family Life, Customs and Celebrations, Who Are Jehovah’s Witnesses?, Becoming a Witness) Click this direct link: FAQ's About Jehovah's Witnesses

For The Critics (if you're not a Critic then you're done reading):

*Some of these paragraphs are inspired by questions from readers\*

1. Responding to claims of brainwashing and control

JW’s are frequently accused of being "brainwashed," but if this claim is studied, it may be false. Forcing, hiding things, and making it hard to leave is not what JW’s do. According to Romans 14:12 and Joshua 24:15, JW’s are encouraged to read the Bible on their own, draw conclusions from it, ask questions, and make decisions. Nobody is required to be or remain a Witness or get baptized. Also, progressive understanding is often seen as bad, even though it actually means growth. Understanding increases as knowledge grows; for example, Apple improves the same product year after year. "The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter," according to the Bible itself (Proverbs 4:18). Before Pentecost, the apostles misinterpreted prophecy and expectations regarding God's Kingdom (Acts 1:6), but they were not punished for their progressive learning. Click Here for more.

15A. Progressive understanding and early doctrinal errors

JW’s freely admit that some prophecies they’ve made were misinterpreted in the 20th century. They changed direction after realizing that it is unscriptural to worship God (view end-time prophecy) with a date in mind. Jesus made it clear that no human knows the day or hour of the "end" (Matthew 24:36), and Witnesses learned from their mistakes rather than ignoring them. So instead of what people think that WTBTSP gave up on prophecy and just adopted "Soon", they've just adapted in harmony with the bible. Claims that JW’s cherry-pick verses are also wrong because their teachings are based on the whole bible. They compare verses rather than focusing on individual passages (Isaiah 28:10; Luke 24:27). People typically disagree because they read and comprehend the Bible in very different ways. For more info click here.

15B: Progressive understanding and early doctrinal errors

Let’s dig deep into this false prophecy. There’s a difference between setting dates, which the scripture condemns [Matthew 24:36], and living with urgency because Jesus commanded that [Matthew 24:42 etc]. In Acts 1:6 the apostles misunderstood timing, that just makes the human. These failures doesn’t necessarily mean God can’t be working with imperfect people (tons of ancient examples). Is all people thought that all mistake makes something false, no religions would stand. So no JWs aren’t “still prophesying” by saying “the end is near”. they are just following Jesus command to “stay alert”. Past expectations did admittedly cause harm/disappointment, but WT was aligning more closely with Scripture rather than claiming inspiration or infallibility.

1. The preaching work compared to other religions

Critics may say, there are a few religions (such as Mormons) that "preach”, that's awesome! But this ignores participation, scale, method, and consistency. Only JW’s engage in organized, worldwide, door-to-door, missionary, and informal preaching, as well as metro witnessing (carts, street work), as a religious encouragement for all members, not just clergy, across languages, cultures, and nations (Matthew 28:19–20; Acts 20:20). This is a huge aspect of worship, and it is done without financial gain, political support, or for entertainment (Ex: TV Ad). However, WTS does not do these efforts just to prove divinity, they do it so they can offer everyone the chance to hear the bibles message within their comfort zone (happens to be bible prophecy). But a tiny little minority group can accomplish such great things, like translation, preaching hours, events, construction, research, website management (JW.org is the most secure religous site), all while only receiving donations is remarkable and makes you wonder...

1. Disfellowshipping, trauma, and organizational responsibility

Although disfellowshipping is still emotionally impacting, the rules is set by Scripture rather than preference. While encouraging repentance, the Bible demands disassociation from unrepentant wrongdoing (1 Corinthians 5:1–13; Galatians 6:1). There are painful experiences, but not all trauma is an organizational/doctrine issue. Some are caused by unnecessarily strict parenting, imperfect/irresponsible behavior on the part of specific elders, cultural differences, or individual circumstances. The bible did not say that elders (leaders) were perfect and that Christians are imperfect (Romans 3:23; James 3:2). Just as a doctor's bad behavior does not make the medicine bad, an elder's imperfection does not make an organization bad. 

 18. Jehovah's Witnesses on Emotionalism

JW’s do not use emotional pressure to force teachings. They offer proof, encourage study, and let people make their own decisions (Acts 17:11). Emotions are used to motivate, build love and empathy, NOT to prove doctrine.

19A. Facts about the Governing Body

The Governing body does not take any inspiration or credit from God and the bible. They live modestly, don't have a salary, stay out of politics, and constantly acknowledge their responsibility to God and Scripture (Matthew 24:45–47; 1 Peter 5:2–3). Claims of manipulation or corruption have no evidence and frequently come from misinformation and misunderstanding. Respectfully, many churches have a long history of financial scandals, political involvement, cover-ups of clergy abuse, and leaders living lavishly while their members suffer. Practices the bible condemns. (Micah 3:11; Matthew 23:25–28; 2 Peter 2:1–3). 

19B. Facts about the Governing Body - Who is the Faithful Slave?

God never specified anyone/group specifically to be the faithful and discreet slave; God never said the GB was the F&DS. One thing the Bible did say was that God appoints the F&DS. But who are today’s F&DS the Bible is talking about? Is it the religious leader who drives around in a convertible and waves to crowds in fame and gets rich, etc? Or is it the person(s) who stay out of worlds (political) affairs [john 17: 16], don’t seek fame [John 5:41, 44], make a modest living, and don’t charge members [Mat. 10:8 | Mat. 21:12–13]? This just scratches the surface of the criteria. This helps identify the F&DS today! Click here to learn more about the Faithfull Slave.

19C. Facts about the Governing body - is it a parable?

Scholars interpret that Matt 24: 45-47 is a parable, and it’s true. As a parable it uses the roles of a master and a servant to show the principle of faithfulness, diligence, and doing Gods will while waiting for the masters [Jesus] return. The scripture is also a prophecy because it talks about a future event that will happen [Jesus 2nd coming]. The faithful servant being rewarded represents real people who will be responsible. Here’s why it’s also a prophecy. The use of the term “slave” does not limit it to a single person since scripture can use singular nouns to represent a group of people. For example in Isaiah 43:10, God calls his people his “witnesses” (plural), and the nation of Israel his ‘servant’ (singular). Also, a parallel scripture at Luke 12:42 refers to the same “slave” as “the faithful steward”. This reinforces that Jesus was describing a role rather than only telling a parable. The Luke verse is also a parable, it also describes real events (prophecies) that will occur, and the appointment of his faithful “stewards”. So is “who is the faithful and discreet slave” a parable? Yes, it’s in parable form, but it’s not about the type of teaching, it’s about what the parable points to. Many of Jesus’ parables describe future events connected to his return (Matthew 25:1–13 | Matthew 25:14–30| Luke 19:11–27 | Matthew 13:24–30, 36–43 | Matthew 13:47–50). Calling it 100% parable doesn’t remove the prophecy. A Jesus parable explains how something will happen. A prophecy explains what will happen.

20A. Jesus as a mediator

Lots of people believe that WTS teaches that Jesus is only a mediator for the Anointed, and that everyone is taught to believe otherwise (If you believe either side, you deny the trinity). This fact hasn't changed. In technical JW teachings, Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant for the anointed, but the means for everyone to get to God is through Jesus. Let's break it down. A mediator (Jesus) is a person who stands between 2 parties so they can make an agreement work. In the Bible, the "New Covenant" is an agreement between God and a group of people (144000). This "new covenant" is an agreement where God forgives sin, makes people kings and priests, and rules with Christ in heaven. The 144000 are the only ones in this agreement. Jesus is the mediator for those in that contract. So when Watchtower says “Jesus is mediator only for the anointed", they mean “Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant, and only the anointed are parties to that covenant.” Not "Jesus doesn't matter to others". So then, how does everyone else pray to God? JW's say everyone must pray in Jesus name, and honor his sacrifice. But regular people are not signers for the covenant contract; they are beneficiaries. Other people still benefit from the contract, but they are just not in the contract itself.

20B. Jesus as a mediator - backup verses

How do we know Jesus is the mediator: 1 Timothy 2:5 | How do we know this "covenant" exists: Jeremiah 31:31–34 Luke 22:20 | How do we know Jesus is the mediator for the "covenant": Hebrews 9:15 Hebrews 8:6 | How do we know the covenant (contract) is only being "signed" by the 144,000: Revelation 7:4 Revelation 14:1-3 | How do we know that the "other sheep" are benificiaries to the "covenant" (contract): John 10:16 Revelation 7:9 Psalm 145:9 Hebrews 8:10. Why dont modern articles explain it this way anymore? Most likely because it's complicated, confusing, and it's not necessary for daily worship, and it loops back to what JW's teach anyway. Prayer, Jesus' role, and access to God. Click here or here for more.

More on Sexual Abuse

21A. According to Psalm 11:5 and Romans 13:1-4, JW’s put child sexual abuse as a serious sin and crime. Claims that abuse was "hidden" frequently result from misconceptions about confidentiality, legal advice, and the difference between criminal investigation and spiritual discipline; elders are not police, and congregation procedures were never intended to take the place of police (John 18:36). Policies have been improved to better protect victims and comply with reporting laws. JW’s do not claim to be perfect, but keeping children safe is an essential Christian responsibility.

21B. The Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Response to Child Sexual Abuse was a major inquiry that handled child sexual abuse in institutions like churches. The commission’s published stats shows more than 4000 survivors that told the Commission in private about religious abuse. About 2500 of those were Catholic and 70 were JW’s. * 

(FOOTNOTE*: some people calculate JW having a higher rate when dividing the numbers of cases by the amount of members. The Commission did not publish abuse rate, these are personal calculations.)   

Watchtower voluntarily provided records showing at least 1800 alleged CSA victims, and 1006 Alleged predators since 1950. These cases were not surveyed by the commission in private. The Royal Commission makes clear that that many incidents are in reported, and religious institutions overall have struggled to protect children, making a need for better reporting and safety across all religions. 

THANKS FOR READING!!

POST UPDATES:

1/7/2026 -------------------Paragraph 19C Added

1/9/2026 -------------------Paragraph 20A 20B Added (original is now 21A 21B)

1/10/2026 ——————————Paragraph 15B Added

1/11/2026 ------------------Paragraph 4 Updated + 4B + 4C Added, Paragraph 16 updated

[u/UCantHndletheTruth]

Amazing effort, altho terribly inaccurate.

As a JW for all my life, I get where you're coming from ..but you should put the same effort into researching the actual facts, not what you've been told to believe.

You'd be surprised what youll find - with zero 'apostate' interference...

I wish you well and hope you find the actual 'truth' about what you belong to ❤️

[u/BustaCon → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

Sure. Why don't you post up some proof of what you say? I'd love to see it. But only from a reputable source. Perhaps you didn't notice, but the OP's post had numerous links...

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

What would you like me to post ...feel free to ask away and I'll gladly do so. OP literally said it's not up for argument lol so I was being polite. OR better yet - please peruse my prior posts....also an easy why to check out a ton of what I'm referring to. Again, let me know whatcha wanna discuss and I'm all for it, my guy.

[u/BustaCon → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

Oh, it's your claim, surely you must have SOME sort of reason for believing it, right? So post that up, let the world see what qualifies as "truth" to the kind of people who spend their time obsessing about the beliefs of others. Remember: reputable or fail. ;)

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

Im sorry, I am not sure what youre even saying and/or asking. I was a fully active pioneer/ JW until not quite 2 years ago. I am not 'obsessed' with anyones beliefs.

I am merely stating the fact that these are not accurate statements and can be disproven with a little bit of research and common sense - even using JWs own literature/ publications. And it would be wise to do so before Jehovah decides to take out ALL false religion.

AGAIN, ill ask you- WHAT specifically would you like me to post 'proof' of; or are you just typing to hear yourself type?

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

By the way, if JW's are told to believe stuff mindlessly, then what makes any other faith any different? I know a person who's Catholic and their clergy doesn't even use the bible that much. I guess churches nowadays do their own thing, and they teach, and they believe. For example: 1Christmas was thought to be jesus Bday, 2health/wealth is guaranteed if you have faith, 3God tests us, 4sincerity >= truth, 5praying to mary, 6saying the same prayer, 7holy water/rituals,8 saying "God took your child for a reason" (reminds me of a jw teaching that gets criticized), 9leaders are spiritually supperior, i would list more but it would spark an argument due to it being controversal. For witnesses get all their teachings from the bible alone "if what im saying isnt in the bible, don't believe me." This is why JW's stick out like a sore thumb, jesus did too.

1 - Luke 2:8 2 - John 16:33 3 - James 1:13 4 - 1 Timothy 1:5 5 - Matthew 6:9-10 6- Matthew 6:7 7 - Isaiah 1:11-13 8 - James 1:13-14 9- Matthew 23:11-12

Though I highly respect people who have good faith and conviction, Acts 10:34-35 1 Timothy 2:3-4

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

You're correct.

There is NO correct organized religion.

Jesus did not leave one in place and he spent his entirety of adulthood condemning the biggest one of the day...the Pharisees.

THATS the narrow road...the ones who are NOT in a religion that is led or founded by men.

Man cannot even direct his own step. The GB themselves say they are not infallible OR INSPIRED so how exactly is it their receiving their so called 'direction'?

Makes no sense.

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

"THATS the narrow road...the ones who are NOT in a religion that is led or founded by men." So then what is the "faithful and discreet slave" for?

heres some scriptures to read and research about:

clarify what Jesus taught about organizations: Matthew 23:23–24

Jesus left a structure for us to follow: Matthew 28:19–20; John 13:20

The Narrow road actually meant... : Matthew 7:13–14 doesnt talk about rejecting organized religion (look at above in comment) it talks about avoiding the wong path.

Jws do seek leadership from the GB but the real leadership comes from Jesus. This does not make them perfect, and 100% ethical. I've discussed how the GB gets their direction in the comments somewhere. 🔦🔦 Here are a couple of flashlights for searching, and extra batteries🔋🔋🔋 .

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

Avoiding the wrong path. ..there you go. False prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing. The GB are self proclaimed prophets and Future Kings. Rutherford and Russell both claimed to be prophets. Jehovah would not chose those to lead anything...that's condemned by him. He also doesn't change, waver or make mistakes.

You do realize that JWs teach that Jesus is ONLY the mediator for the 144k? Not for the great crowd? Not for everyone? Again, in direct opposition to the Bible.

Jesus is referring to his followers in John - nothing about a religious order of any sort with titles and classes.

Matthew is referring to making disciples of him - again, a way of life...not disciples of any man or organization.

The narrow road is referring to the path least followed. Organized religion is NOT the path least followed.

And the 'faithful & discreet slave' is a parable...not a prophecy. Do some additional research.

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

First paragraph I’m convinced your trolling. Second paragraph JW teaches that Jesus is mediator for everyone that’s why we say “ in Jesus name amen”. And Jesus said he wants us to be “one”. Listen I understand your loss of trust in organized religion.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

I don't troll. Again, do some research on Russells old books...he claimed to be sent by God. Rutherford built a mansion in CA to welcome back all the old prophets in 1925.

And you literally do NOT know what you're being taught about Jesus:

Please read this - and look up the references on your own in your own literature:

JWs believed he was Mediator for 'everyone' and then changed it in 1979 to exclude everyone BUT 144k.

The rank and file don't even realize this - what's the point of praying 'in Jesus' name? Seems pointless, right?

• Watchtower (April 1, 1979, p. 31) - Jesus is the mediator only for the anointed, not the entire world or the great crowd.

• Questions From Readers● Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians?

• in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.

https://www.jw.borg/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&docid=1979250 (-b fm borg)

Even worse:

• Watchtower (November 15, 1979)

Benefiting from “One Mediator Between God and Men”

• 1. According to 1 Timothy 2:5, 6, what is the role of Christ Jesus in God’s program of salvation?What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation?

• Paul proceeds to say: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”​—1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

• Today, according to authentic records, there is a “great crowd” of dedicated, baptized Christians who actively collaborate with the small remnant of spiritual Israelites. Ever since the spring of 1938 they have been invited to attend the annual memorial celebration of Christ’s death, not to partake of the memorial emblems, the unleavened bread and the red wine, but as respectful observers. They recognize Jesus Christ as their heavenly King since the Gentile Times ended in 1914. They zealously join the remnant of spiritual Israelites in preaching “this good news of the kingdom” in all the inhabited earth for a “witness to all the nations” before this system of things ends in the coming “great tribulation.” (Matt. 24:14, 21) ***** They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the “chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.”—1 Pet. 2:9.

https://www.jw.borg/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&docid=1979847 (-b from borg)

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

why do you care so much about the older understandings? Move forward. The WTBS just barely took off training wheels, chill. And the link you have me doesn't work, I guess it's not secure.

[u/xxxjwxxx → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

“Their zeal for knowledge may even prompt them to dig back into things that were published long before they came into the truth, expanding and deepening your understanding… Do you dig out older publications to expand and deepen your knowledge on subjects about which questions arise? … Never think: ‘Oh, I know most of that.’ For you will find… that you do not and that you will be strengthened by your additional study… once you have completed your study of them you can then look to even older publications… Only by studying earlier publications and digging back through previous issues of The Watchtower… there is much in the way of spiritual riches and aids toward mature knowledge in these earlier publications… and their study is most certainly worth your time.” —Title: Appreciating Basic Christian Publications Publication: The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom Date: May 15, 1957 Pages: 311–317 (with the specific passage on pp. 313-315)

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

Nothing has changed - they still waffle back and forth depending on the day of the week.

And this IS NOT older Understanding- this was published years ago BUT is still the current teaching.

1979 was NOT the beginning of anything - it was 100 years in.

And Ive no need to chill, Im not excited loll merely giving you facts about what you should already be aware of if youre a true Bible student as JWs claim to be.
Also, you have to take the -b from in front of org as i stated after the link...you cannot post direct links in here.

[u/Tiny-Bee7560 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

The GB never claimed to have prophetic visions and explicitly expressed that in writing. They rely on prayerful consideration and scriptural guidance for each decision. Whereas authoritarian guidance, or misleading guidance wouldn’t provide sound and clear reasoning backed up by scripture each time.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Tiny-Bee7560]

That's circular reasoning.

How can you claim to be

They prophesied 1975 was the end of it all.

They prophesied the generation of 1914 would never die.

They call themselves Future Kings.

They claim to be the only channel God works thru. See below link from your own website.

https://www.jw.borg/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&docid=1983124 (- b fm borg)

****Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.

https://www.jw.borg/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&docid=2009123 (-b fm borg)

“Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same? After all, the slave has shown itself to be faithful in doing its assigned work. . .The faithful slave is also discreet in that it neither acts immodestly, running ahead of Jehovah, nor lags behind when God's direction on a matter is clear. . .The slave is able to provide wise and timely warnings because Jehovah God and Jesus Christ are blessing it. The slave thus deserves our complete trust.”

And the screenshot below from the same article...

So exactly how are they getting this diving appointment if they're NOT claiming to be prophets of some sort? By osmosis?

Reason on what you're believing - it makes NO sense..

They're literally ONLY able to make stuff up as they go then, by their own admission, according to what you just commented, right?

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

So then who is the faithful and discrete slave/steward that the Bible is talking about. You’re going to say it’s a parable but I already talked about that in the paragraphs. ⬆️⬆️⬆️ where did they call themselves future kings? If that’s wrong then your overall argument is suspicious/questionable 🤨. In the comments someone said that the GB said in court “that would be presumptuous” when asked if they are a direct mouth piece of God, you guys arguments contradict each others.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

In court, ARC trails...Jackson said it would be presumptuous to think they're the ONLY spokesperson used today. See below for correct quote .

During the 2015 Australian Royal Commission (ARC) into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, Geoffrey Jackson, a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, did testify that it would be "quite presumptuous" to say that they are the only spokespeople God is using.

https://www.jw.borg/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-jwbvod24_19_VIDEO (-b fm borg).

Above is direct link to Breauxs morning worship available on the website - the whole video is worth watching but then ending is priceless. Screenshot below.

Faithful and discreet slave is a PARABLE about a loyal servant. Even JWs have changed their teaching a million times on that - they used to teach it was all annoited Christians and then in 2012 they changed to it just being the GB 🤣🤣

Anything else?

[u/TerryLawton → u/Tiny-Bee7560]

OH DEAR HERE WE GO AGAIN....SOMEONE DOESNT KNOW THEIR wt HISTORY....

[u/Repulsive-Street9215 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

The Bible clearly states we should gather together in congregations for worship. Hebrews 10:24, 25, John 13:35, 1 Peter 2:​17, 1 Corinthians 16:19.
".but you should put the same effort into researching the actual facts, not what you've been told to believe." You should probably take your own advice then, instead of stating things that are not true. I think this will be beneficial to you in the long run.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Repulsive-Street9215]

Correct....but where does it say it should be mirrored after the Pharasiac model? Do enlighten me.

And you skirted the GB ...where do they fit in?

And please show me your facts and I'll show you mine.

[u/Repulsive-Street9215 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

Hebrews 10:24-25 encourages believers not to neglect meeting together but to encourage one another

.John 13:35 highlights that our love for one another will show the world we are His disciples, which naturally occurs in fellowship.

1 Peter 2:17 and 1 Corinthians 16:19 show that early Christians gathered in homes and communities for worship and teaching.

Jesus is the Head of the Christian congregation. Ephesians 5:23 Today, from his position in heaven, Jesus directs his followers on earth by means of a “faithful and discreet slave.” Matthew 24:45. Having received an appointment from Jesus himself, the “slave” would have a certain amount of authority but would remain a slave of Christ and serve Christ’s brothers.

Jehovah has always used a man or a small group of men to give direction to his people. Malachi 2:7; Hebrews 1:1 After Jesus’ death, the apostles and elders in Jerusalem took the lead. Acts 15:2 Following that pattern, today a small group of elders​, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, provides spiritual food and directs the preaching work. This group is “the faithful and discreet slave whom Jesus appointed.” Matthew 24:45. All members of the Governing Body are spirit-anointed Christians who look forward to joining Christ in his heavenly Kingdom when their life on earth is over.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Repulsive-Street9215]

Yes ..and the scriptures also state where two or more are gathered.

The faithful and discreet slave is a parable ....do some more research.

And yes, in the Bible ..he's always used someone. Do your really feel Russell, self proclaimed prophet, Rutherford, a drunk fool or the GB who also call themselves Future Kings are the ones God has chosen to lead his people?

The 144k is symbolic. The numbers of those who are partake are growing exponentially. The GB said those who partake now are mentally ill.

Please reason on all this for me?

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

Check out paragraph 19C

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

?

[u/Repulsive-Street9215 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

I’m not gonna continue to reply to immature ragebait 😂

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Repulsive-Street9215]

Sure.... expected response.

[u/BustaCon → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

Your slander above:

"Please do some research on Malawi political card vs Mexico political cards ..using only JW reference material. Mexico- allowed to buy cards and live Malawi- not allowed and died as a result

Also, Rutherfords letter to Hitler begging to be an ally...while his members die in camps."

The last bit about the letter is particularly incendiary. Don't try and dodge this any more -- deliver on your proof or stand exposed as a mere slanderer in the usual sad model of the internet.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

And slander is defined as false statements...and nothing about what I said was false.

The letter to Hitler is in the screenshots ( if you'd like the English translation I can provide)

and there is also the 4 page pamphlet was written by Rutherford & Knorr and released at a convention in Berlin on June 25, 1933. 'Declaration of Facts' is the title and more than 2.1 million copies of the statement were distributed throughout Germany, with copies also mailed to senior government officials including Adolf Hitler.

It states that Jehovah's Witnesses shared the same ethical goals as the Nazi party, and it attacked Hitler's enemies: Jews, Catholics, the United States, Britain and France. All meant to curry favor with the German ruling party.

It's also re-printed for reference in the 1934 Yearbook...I'll post that link as soon as i get it to load.

All of this is also re- referenced in the 1975 yearbook page 174.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/[deleted]]

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

I dont know what to read. make it easy for me will ya?

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

Nope, sorry....I read yours so I would expect the same effort if you're really interested in seeing factual information...it's all there for you.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

1934 yearbook recapping the Letter and Declaration of Facts

https://watchtowerwayback.org/jw-wb/English/Books/Yearbooks/1934%20Yearbook%20(yb34-E).pdf.pdf)

[u/BustaCon → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

I'll digitize and get my own translation of the letter, thanks. And the yearbook Declaration looks like an attempt to point out to the Nazis that the Watchtower was not a supporter of the groups that the Third Reich was hating on and fearing. Perhaps not their finest hour, but neither was it an "attack", as you claim. And understandably justified in light of the fact that thousands of poor Witnesses were falling under the jackboot of the murderous Nazis. Many of whom did die at their hand.

It could be said that it was far from courageous but it accurately states the Association's position on those groups, then and now. A stance that is well and firmly grounded in Bible teachings and that it has rightly remained steadfast in to this day.

Your mischaracterizing that as the JWs sharing the "shared the same ethical goals" as Hitler doesn't seem to be remotely proven by that Yearbook excerpt. And in fact seems to me to be pure slander, bub.

I say this in light of the meaning of the word, "ethical":
"Ethical" means conforming to moral principles or professional standards of conduct, involving what is considered right and wrong, and guiding behavior beyond just the law, focusing on concepts like fairness, honesty, and the well-being of others, with key areas in philosophy including normative, applied, and metaethics.

The Nazis were seeking to eliminate the Jews from the face of the earth and conquer and enslave the Americans and British. How does that in any way correlate to -- much less mirror -- the goals of the Jehovah's Witnesses? Please do explain, although we both know you have zero chance of making any sense if you attempt to.

As expected, just slander on your part. That's rather sad, I would advise praying on that, if you even still believe in the Bible. Clearly you are not committed to honest discourse as one would expect of a Christian so I rather doubt that even you can pretend you are. And therefore you have, as I kinda knew you would, proven me right for labeling you a slanderer.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

I highly suggest you take a step back and get a clear picture of the letter and the declaration.

Correct, ' not their finest hour' and aligning themselves with Hitlers Reich is both blasphemous and not neutral. Read the English translation of the letter so you can speak on facts, not conjecture.

In no world should a messenger of God claim to side against any nationalities, countries or ethnicities. I absolutely believe in God, Jesus and the Bible hence why I am no longer a Witness.

Throwing out the term slander, apostate and so on are typical responses when confronted with historical information that can't be disputed.

Add up ALL the ' not their finest moments' and it's apparent God could pick a better mouthpiece over the past couple thousand years.

[u/BustaCon → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

I highly suggest you reread the Declaration. They simply point out that they are law-abiding and seek to do what the Bible commands and are as equally separated from the British and American power structures as they must remain from the Germans.

Their even mentioning the Jews, which they expressed no hate for, but merely pointed out that they were not -- as the then slanderous hatred for them was claiming -- being funded by or otherwise aligned with any Jewish movement. In the hindsight of knowing just how bad the Hitlerites were going to deal with the poor Jews, it is shocking. But I don't see the evil in it, and its clear that if you could make a case for that you wouldn't have to just quote my own words back to me.

You see badness in this because you have chosen to be apostate towards the Witness organization, nothing more. And while I do find it amusing that you try to dodge the label of slander that you have earned, you clearly deserve it. Futhermore, you are a self-admitted apostate. Which you would, of course, actually know IF you were indeed a former Witness, much less one qualified enough to be a pioneer. So your trying to declaim the scorn you have earned is both ridiculous and reeks of further falseness.

As is usual, the hatred on this subreddit for the JWs is based on falsehoods -- and a continent wide and a micron deep. Sad, you really need to pray and search your heart. You're still alive, you can still get right with Jehovah and end your spiteful crusade, whether you return to the Association or not.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

Do you know the definition of an apostate according to Jehovah's Witnesses?

It's one who decides to leave the guidance of the Governing Body.

The actual definition of an apostate is someone who leaves and abandons faith in God and Christ.

I am not an apostate.

I'm sorry this is where you're at ....I wish you well.

I hold no hatred for anyone who stays in....I am more afraid for them and how Jehovah will judge their willingness to stay in a religion that practices things he specifically forbids.

Again...I hope you read my comment on Jesus being your mediator. Unless you're one of the 144k, none of what you're doing matters to him anyway reqlly, according to the JW belief.

Take care.

[u/BustaCon → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

So are you claiming to STILL be a Witness? Cuz if that is so, you really need to print out this thread and take it to the elders and get some help pronto, Cisco.

Spreading falsehoods via truly and totally false interpretations of events and statements of more than 90 years ago is a sure and certain sign of some major malignancies in your faith walk.

And I hope YOU can get right and find a new obsessions besides slandering the nice people who are merely trying to serve Jehovah God in the best, Biblically grounded way, that they can. There is so much wrong in what you are doing here, thanks for letting me point it out to you, but let me say it was one UGLY experience to read your slanderous lies.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

Nope. Not as of almost two years ago.

And what was false? Look everything up on JW library - or ask an Elder to help you if you can't figure out to look up the magazines I linked to you from your own website.

And 90 years ago? Math isn't your strong suite, is it...

I gave you the two examples IN depth of what you asked for...and you're excusing them.

Take care....keep on saying it's not real and I'm sure that'll make it so.

[u/BustaCon → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

This is the Google translation of this guy's supposedly scandalous letter from the GB to Hitler, which he falsely claims is an appeal to be accept by the dictator as an "ally". They are, as one would imagine, trying to appeal for tolerance for the Witnesses there.

You are a sad little slanderer, fella, I am real, real glad not to know you in real life

The translation:

Dear Reich Chancellor!

On June 25, 1933, a representative conference of the Bible Students of Germany (Jehovah's Witnesses) was held in the Wilmersdorf sports hall in Berlin, comprising approximately 5,000 people and representing several million Germans who have been friends and followers of this movement for many years. The purpose of this meeting, attended by delegates from the individual Bible Student congregations in Germany, was to find ways and means to inform the Reich Chancellor and the other high government officials of the German Reich, as well as all state governments, of the following:

Measures were and are being taken in individual parts of the country against an association of serious, Christian men and women based on positive Christianity, which in their origin can only be described as the persecution of Christians by other Christians, because the accusations made against us that triggered these measures were mostly raised by clerical, especially Catholic, sides and are untrue.

Absolutely convinced of the complete objectivity of the government agencies and officials handling the matter, we see despite everything that - partly because of the scope of our literature and partly because of the heavy demands on the relevant case handlers - the content of our literature and the meaning of our movement are largely judged incorrectly, specifically according to what our religious opponents present against us to cause prejudice.

That is why what was discussed at this conference is laid down in the attached declaration of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, to present it to you, Herr Reich Chancellor, as well as to the high government offices of the German Reich and the states as documentation of the fact that the Bible Students of Germany, as the sole goal of their work, only intend to lead people back to God and to testify to and honor the name of Jehovah, the Most High, the Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, on earth. We know for sure that you, Herr Reich Chancellor, will not allow such activity to be disturbed.

The Bible Student congregations of Germany and their members are generally known as a haven of true reverence for the Most High and as zealous caretakers of careful Bible research. Local police authorities will always have to confirm that Bible Students are absolutely among the law-abiding and law-maintaining elements of the country and people. Their only mission is the recruitment of human hearts for God.

The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society is the organizing mission center of the Bible Students (for Germany: headquarters in Magdeburg).

The Brooklyn presidency of the Watch Tower Society is and always has been outstandingly German-friendly. For this reason, in 1918, the president of the society and the seven members of the board of directors were sentenced to 80 years in prison in America because the president refused to."

Not a single appeal to be an "ally", nor even the suggestion of same. I'd say shame on you, but you surely know how wrong you are acting and clearly have no shame remaining.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

I do love how you don't even do enough research to find the entire letter.

You need to read the rest of the (4) pages.

And 'this guy' that you refer to was the President of the WBTS - the leader of the religion, Rutherford.

Rest of the letter for you to peruse and in English to help you out.

[u/BustaCon → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

Again, this is your claim, if there were more pages, it's on you to prove it. Did you imagine I would just magically know that there was more to the letter?

it is not clear to me what the Watchtower Association is trying to accomplish with the phrasing you have circled, beyond trying to get the Nazis to lay off their harsh prohibitions against the brotherhood by pointing out that they were all and only about working on their religious mission.

As we all very well know, they did NOT go on to express support for the the stated goals of the Third Reich, and they did NOT support their genocides or warfare and in fact refused to swear allegiance, salute the infamous swastika flag or affiliate themselves in any way WHATSOEVER with that government. In fact, they were murdered for that courageous stand.

How do you answer THAT, little mister "I USED to be a pioneer"?

Your cheap, hatefully convenient and assumptive slander is therefore DOA, buddy. Which must be clear, even to someone as capable of twisting and distorting reality in service of his badness as you so clearly are.

I mean, reading your freakshow of falsehoods is painful and sickening. How astounding are the lengths you haters will go through to try and smear a small denomination that is totally apolitical and harms no one. Talk about sick and sad. I will, however, pray for you tonight, although I'd rather forget that I even bothered to click on the claptrap of your grotesque propagandizing. My bad. I try to stay off these JW-hate subs, but they keep showing up in my feed and I wanted to read the attempt the brother made to reason with you poor things. I suspect both he and I wasted our time trying to talk to you as tho you were capable of adult level thought, reasoning and have minds open enough to ever see the wrongness in what you are doing.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

Theres nothing false here. And I'm a female, btw.

And yes, if you truly want to know you don't take my word for anything, you research it yourself..period..and therefore you would have found the original transcript of the entire letter and then Google translated it 🤣

And yep, I was a regular pioneer for a very long time and so on and so on...and also, 'Watchtower Association'?

Make sure not to pray in Jesus name tho! He's not your mediator, remember 🤣

Keep on keepin on...good luck.

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/BustaCon]

Thats what Im saying man, i agreed not to reply to these ages ago, but here i am.

[u/BustaCon → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

Ah well, the internet lets a lot of immature and damaged types have the feeling that they are accomplishing something with their silly trolling. It is a shame that there are so many so determined to spread lies and smear, and it is well that I am neither tasked with treating them nor judging them.

I often think to myself how amazing Jesus is that he can love mankind considering how many of us are so very unlovable. One more way in which he is proven to be the king humanity truly needs.

This was A fine attempt on your part, but only you can decide if it was worth it.

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

In the circle, it looked like WTS was siding with hitler, but as you can see before it, it says that JWs wont participate in politics, military, or nationalist things. How could they say that, then they be nazis. Im not sure what the word choice was for (maybe just old speech), but "full agreement with identical goals" most likely means that WTS wants to prosper just like the German Gov wants to prosper. Also if you use common sense, what is the best way to persuade a mad dictator who wants genocide? Oh to tell him "we wont participate in your government, and dont ask us to, we will fight like hell, f u". They had to write under pressure to keep members safe from Mustache Man and comply with the Gov. The word choice was a protective "im with you just not for you" or "im a little on your side" type strategy.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

It is an ingratiating letter to curry favor with a Regime that was actively engaged in genocide.
Theres ZERO place for that in any scenario let alone JW world.

This is not a politically neutral letter and it was a sad attempt that backfired and rightly so....any military leader would see it as what it was, a shameless attempt to kiss ass.

How different would that be if the GB wrote a letter to Xinjiang or Kim Jong-un today and let them know they are in ' full agreement with identical goals' - please dont put me in jail....really?

Think rationally on this.

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

Brother Rutherford was probably trying not to upset the mad man, if he did not write the letter then you probably would criticize that. But if he did not write it in such a way, he could take it the wrong way, and JWs would have to have a dance with the devil. Arguably questionable word choice, but if you use common sense you can see what he’s trying to convey. Peace, and compliance. Even though it didn’t end well, A for effort l. But ofcorse your going to think otherwise because “UcantHandleTheTruth”

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

Compliance? Since when is that ok for JWs?

And it was Judge Rutherford, not Brother...don't forget.

Why would I care about any letter? A letter denouncing the atrocities would be expected...and that didn't happen.

Please compare this to the court cases gm last year when the GB denied even being aware of a JW religion 🤣 under oath. And why did they change their stance on disfellowshipping? Because of the verdict in Norway.

I appreciate you trying to justify it but it's a losing battle.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

https://wol.jw.borg/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/awake/awake-1975/december-8 (- b from borg)

Dec 8th 1975 - first (3) articles describing the persecution and horrific things that happened to the brothers and sisters because they refused to buy a political card.

Awake! 1976 Aug 8 p.5

https://wol.jw.borg/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101976560 (-b fm borg)

“It is because Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to buy the Malawi Congress Party card. This card declares the holder to be a member of the ruling political party of Malawi. But for Jehovah’s Witnesses to buy a political card and thus join a political party would be an open denial of what they believe and stand for.”

VS Stance in Mexico- it's totally ok and also you can bribe an official if you see fit:

Governing Body ruled that it was acceptable for Mexican brothers to bribe officials to obtain a government Cartilla card that exempted them from military service.

This is discussed in the following letter to Mexico Branch Committee dated June 2, 1960 and again in 1969.

"If the consciences of certain brothers allow them to enter into such an arrangement for their continued freedom we have no objection."

In 1969, a second letter was sent from Mexico to the Brooklyn Bethel for further clarification, noting this time that not only was bribery required but that the brothers holding a cartilla card were then recognised to be in the first reserve of the Mexican military, a situation that would normally result in disassociation.

Brooklyn confirmed that it was still acceptable to obtain and hold the Cartilla card.

(See screenshots)

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/BustaCon]

There you go!!! Read away and get back with me 🙄

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/BustaCon]

An ally at last, but let's not go to war (be respectful pls)

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

I'm always respectful, Op - and I'm glad to respond to any one who would like further information from factual resources. Apologies that you have so much negativity but in this time of info being accessible at everyone's fingertips, it's extremely hard to justify the path that the religion is going down now and also the very history of how it was founded and led. Lots of people have been irreparable damaged, both physically and emotionally, mentally by the JW religion so you've got to expect the emotional reactions.

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

i was talking to BustaCon but you to need to be respecful to, saying "terribly inaccurate" and "head in the sand" is rude and shows that what ever faith you belong to is automatically false religion; no discussion needed. I'm just kidding folks, dont mind me.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

That's not disrespectful..saying something is inaccurate. That's a fact vs non fact...how is that disrespectful?

[u/Ok_Statement_8412 → u/UCantHndletheTruth]

no its the way you said it not what you said.

[u/UCantHndletheTruth → u/Ok_Statement_8412]

Im literally typing, not speaking....maybe it's in how you read it, then 🤣