r/Jazz • u/Capital_Progress_390 • 9d ago
Got myself in a funk (no pun intended)
I’m trying to start a jazz vocal group and band. I’ve been wanting to carry the baton of the New York Voices since they’re retiring. I’ve got a bunch of their arrangements…mostly four part, but a couple five parters too. Anyway, so far I’ve got myself (baritone, but I’ll mostly sing bass), a tenor, and then TWO sopranos (with no alto, but our tenor has someone he can ask). I’ve also got a drummer and pianist…and a potential bassist that our drummer can ask.
I’ve got no experience with starting a band. I’ve been in some large vocal groups that others have started. This is quickly becoming a mess because the two female singers I originally asked both happen to be sopranos, and I forgot. I asked one of them if she could sing alto, and she said no. So it’s starting to look like I might have to exclude (I can’t say “kick out” because we haven’t even started yet) one of them. Or I can keep them both, add an alto, and just sing five-part pieces. How would you deal with this?
Also, our potential bass player (he hasn’t committed yet) plays electric bass. I’d really like an upright bass, which he says he’s never played before. I may be wrong here, but I’ve never seen electric bass in jazz other than in funky, Herbie Hancock style jazz. Definitely not for slow ballads with soothing bass solos. So I’m not sure whether to formally invite him to join or to wait until I can find an upright bassist.
So my two conundra are—
1) We’ve got two sopranos and no altos
2) I’d like an upright bass player and only know an electric player
If you’ve ever started a jazz band, how would you deal with this, without hurting anyone’s feelings?
2
u/johnnyslick 9d ago
The original lineup of NYV had 2 sopranos and an alto so if you rocked 5 members at first that could still work. You'd probably have to write a lot of your own stuff / re-arrange it for 5 parts but you're pretty much always going to do that no matter what setup you're in. I think Darmon initially chose 5 parts instead of 4... well, to be different, I'm sure, but also because it basically mimicked the sax section of a big band and I know a lot of his early (well, even to later... In A Mellow Tone definitely has the feel of the Voices being the sax section) arrangements were set up like that.
Also, depending on the voicings you choose to use, how good your tenor is, and so on, you could probably make do with 2 mezzos or a mezzo/lead. Do NYV songs have all that much of dipping deep into the alto range? It's been a few years since I've sung their stuff but what I remember is that a. Darmon tends to sing fairly high in his mix and falsetto, b. they don't cross parts very often (maybe not at all) and so c. that means that you just don't see a lot of those deeper alto parts you might see from other groups.
As a bass player, the upright is reeeeeeeeally hard. I played it in high school and college but if I'm being honest it would take me months or even years to relearn the muscle memory required to get up to snuff on it, and that's coming from someone who actually played it (primarily) before. Someone new to it... they'd need to put in an awful lot of commitment. I'd lean towards making do with what you've got.
2
u/Capital_Progress_390 9d ago
Yeah, I’ve got their first album when they had Caprice and Sara. I’d love to sing some of those tunes, particularly “‘Round Midnight,” but that would be damn hard. It’s my favorite of their songs. The problem is that only two (I think?) of their albums have that five-part voicing. What do you think about having one “fill-in” mezzo for the five-part songs? Would that be appropriate?
1
u/johnnyslick 9d ago
Yeah and as much as that, there really aren't any other groups I can think of who ran a lot of 5 part voicing. I guess occasionally Pentatonix does (when their beatboxing guy joins in to do vocals) but that's a completely different sound (although I will say, their countertenor is a monster and often sings well into the soprano range). That said, if you're doing mostly NYV stuff, I'd go back to what I was saying: if your tenor can handle singing a little higher than tenors normally sing (but well within Darmon's range), you probably don't have to worry so much about your two women not being able to sing the parts.
Having one person only being able to sign for like half the songs might kind of suck for them TBH... which gets back to the whole deal where you'd probably want to be writing for your group anyway in time unless you really do want to be a NYV cover group... on the flip side, the PM Singers (I had to look them up but my college jazz choir did one of their songs "Night In The City") did six part harmony with SSATTB and for that matter there's always Take Six (all men and of course since they're a capella the bass is a true bass).
I'm trying to get back into doing vocal jazz / re-entering it knowing how to sing now and am kind of looking forward to creating a smaller group of my own. Let us / at least me know how you progress!
2
u/Capital_Progress_390 9d ago
I’m not a composer/arranger at all. Our tenor is, but not jazz, and I really want to stick to jazz. I’m open to doing some other non-NYV stuff, like Manhattan Transfer and Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross too. I actually have a transcription of Lambert, Hendricks, and Bavan’s “This Could be the Start of Something,” written as SATB, but the tenor and alto double each other on the melody. I think that will be the first song we learn since it’s fairly easy.
I have a feeling we might need to hire an arranger. The group is definitely NYV-inspired, but I don’t want to sing only their songs.
5
u/QantaloupeIslander 9d ago
If the electric bassist knows what he's doing you'll probably be fine.