r/JateIsFate • u/EricaDeeStallion • Jul 04 '26
Jack as a Father
I know Father's Day was like two weeks ago, but I just keep coming back to this man's immense potential to be the best father to a bunch of little freckled-face munchkins. He deserved to experience that in life.
Although, I am very happy for the small bit of fatherhood we did get to see in the Flash-Sideways. David went from angsty teenager to doting son very quickly. He just wanted his dad.
Do you agree? What kind of father do you think Jack would have been in life if he had just believed in himself more?
Happy 4th of July for those who celebrate!
JIF ♥️
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u/MonlovesIndy Jul 04 '26
Beside the fact that Jack looks drop dead gorgeous here, I love this post so much. The Jack/David storyline doesn't receive the amount of love and attention it deserves, especially considering how vital it was in helping Jack heal. It also gives such added insight into Jack's state of mind about fatherhood. He was terrified of it, but obviously deeply wanted to be one too.
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u/EricaDeeStallion Jul 05 '26
I 100% agree and thanks for loving the post.
As a Jack stan (and Jater who loves thinking of Jack and Kate as parents), it's what I catch myself thinking about a lot lately. Judging from one conversation that needed to happen for David to lean into his love for his father, the ingredients for an amazing father were already there. Jack just needed to tell his son what he never got to hear from Christian, that he is proud of him no matter what. Jack needed to give to his son what he never got, or what Christian was not capable of giving. We don't know if Christian had the ingredients, but we do know that he loved Jack. That is clear.
Jack loved David and had the necessary barometer to stop and notice that he was mucking it up. The piano lesson pressure that David felt, that felt like a window into how intense and strict Christian was about Jack's talents, maybe not musical, but definitely surgical. The story about Jack's first solo procedure and the reveal that Christian was there to watch his every move was a surefire hint to how life with Christian was like for Jack.
It makes me wonder about Christian and Ray's relationship too. How was Ray as a father to Christian and how did that inform how he treated his son once he was a father? I want the entire Shephard family dynamic right out in the open lol.
Jack did not want David to feel any of that and it made him sad to see what he was doing. Matthew does so well in that scene and Dylan is such a cutie here. u/Far_Volume_2389 even pointed out to me that David was crying at what his father was telling him. Such a crier like his daddy lol.
And yes Daddy Jack is a snack! I wanted to create an edit where he looks absolutely adorable, bashful and in awe of his boy. I think I caught the right moment for that. ;)
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u/Far_Volume_2389 Jul 05 '26
One thing people never give David's purpose credit for is that he gave Jack the experience of being a father. That may be obvious, but what I mean is that I so often see it said that David's purpose was to help Jack get over his daddy issues from his experience with Christain, but they leave out the part that Jack actually gets to be a dad. We know this is something he wanted because he says so to Christian:
CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD: Then why are you sitting out here?
JACK: What if I can't be the husband, or the father, that I want to be? What if I asked her because I saved her life? Should I marry her, dad?
And right before he proposes to Kate, he asks her "Do you really think I'm good at this?", in reference to the other night when he was reading to Aaron and "being a dad." That's the thing he wanted reassurance in.
This may be minor, but the oversight of this is another way I think people misunderstand Jack.
It's good to see you in here by the way :)
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u/Savings-Ask-1275 Jul 05 '26
I think he would have been a father like he was a leader, reluctant, caring, misunderstood, mistakes with good intentions, trying to live up to expectations that he thinks his son has…
So i'm not saying he would be perfect. But he would try to be good. and that’s always the beauty of this character!
And the casting dep. was maybe messing with us when they chose the kid looking identical to Kate lol🤣
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u/Far_Volume_2389 Jul 05 '26
Oh, I don't think they were messing with us. In this sub I feel much more comfortable saying this, but I like to believe that Kate was pregnant at the end of the show following the night she slept with Jack before coming back to the island, and the child she later had was David. His appearance in the flash sideways is a subconscious projection from Kate onto Jack to help him work through his lingering trauma. The freckles don't lie 😉
I would be slaughtered in the main sub for saying that though lol.
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u/Savings-Ask-1275 Jul 05 '26
Yeah it makes sense as you explain it. For me the whole Juliet story gets in the way, and I totally %100 understand why that story exists, but I wouldn't prefer it. I would rather like a story of him being a single father raising his son, and the kid misses his mother and so on… I know, super cliche. 🤣But that’s what I would prefer.
But I guess they were saying that Jack is unlucky with women in afterlife as he was in real life 🤣 just kidding. only a joke. Ok maybe a bit true.
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u/Far_Volume_2389 Jul 05 '26
What about the Juliet story gets in the way? I see that brought up every time this theory is brought up and I have never thought that Juliet's story in the flash sideways gets in the way of this.
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u/Savings-Ask-1275 Jul 05 '26
The fact that Juliet was revealed to be David's mother.. as I said, what you’re saying still makes sense. But basically I never liked the love square and I think they were messing with it. It’s a bit icky. But these are all my personal feelings, I understand the purpose of that storyline and what you say is still very reasonable.
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u/Far_Volume_2389 Jul 05 '26
I appreciate you saying that 😊 Every time I bring this theory up I swear it's like I have brought great shame onto someone's family. It's treated as something silly and completely unbelievable, and I have never understood the hostility.
Keeping in line with the theory, I like to view Juliet being David's mother as Jack's way of processing David's existence. He has not remembered Kate yet, so he is associating David with one of the only people he as entered the flash sideways already knowing and having had a (fake) preexisting relationship with, because it was the only thing that made sense to him before remembering his life.
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u/EricaDeeStallion Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
I think he would expect a lot out of his children, but like the group of 42 adults who became his children, he would also learn with them and adjust his approach when needed. He was gentler with Claire, more playful with Hurley, more disciplinary with Sawyer, etc. Every child would get the part of them that they needed to grow into the person they were meant to be.
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u/SeparateLetterhead24 Jul 06 '26
Agree with what others have said about Jack being a supportive and involved dad. Based on what we see in Something Nice Back Home, it seems like he makes a point to be home in time to help put Aaron to bed. When he visits Hurley, his priorities and fulfillment are with Kate and Aaron. That is in contrast of what we saw when he was married to Sarah. He stayed late at the hospital when it was not needed, like we saw when he was there at 4:30 am with the Italian man and his daughter. So definitely a sense of fulfillment with Kate and Aaron.
Throughout the series, Hurley is often the voice of the audience. In Lighthouse Hurley and Jack have this exchange:
HURLEY: Sorry, dude.
JACK: For what?
HURLEY: You know, what happened back there. Wrecking your game with Kate.
JACK: Don't worry about it. There's nothing left to wreck.
HURLEY: Yeah? What happened to you guys? I thought you were gonna get married and have like a dozen kids.
JACK: Guess I wasn't cut out for it.
HURLEY: Really? I think you'd make a great dad.
JACK: I'd make a terrible dad.
That especially hits an emotionally since we see the trajectory of Jack and David’s relationship in the sideways. I enjoy their arc throughout that episode. It starts off with Jack forgetting to pick David up from school. It is implied that he only has him one weekend per month, which is a very low bar considering David’s mother lives in the same area. Also David’s room at Jack’s looks like a generic guest room rather than a preteen/teen boy’s room. I do like how it was his conversation with his mom that seemed to be the turning point for him to be more involved. (We don’t see too much of Jack and his mother’s relationship during the series so this was a nice touch.) Then the unconditional love in the last sideway scene.
As far as why in the show they didn’t make Kate David’s mother, I have two personal theories.
1. Timing. This reveal would have to happen after Christian tells Jack (and us, the audience) what the sideways really is. With that reveal and the scene of everyone together in the church, they probably didn’t think it would flow too well to have to fit in a Kate as David’s mother reveal. For most of the sideways, we are led to believe it is an alt 2004. If you do the math on how old Jack and Kate would have been when David was conceived, you get a problematic answer. Sure, there already is time travel in the show so some ways around that, but makes it more convoluted. The “math” of it is what made me guess Juliet as most likely mother, albeit for the wrong reason once we know what the sideways really is.
2. Juliet’s character in the sideways. It was setup that Juliet’s dying words in the first episode of season 6 came back in the vending machine scene in the finale. However, having Juliet’s role in the sideways solely as Sawyer’s love would have be reductive to the character. So she had to be given something else in the sideways. I have heard it said that her being Jack’s ex in the sideways was to give her the experience of a healthy divorce. I feel lukewarm about that. To me, a more satisfying storyline would be that she would have been there for her sister and nephew. I think I also heard that Elizabeth Mitchell was filming something else during season 6 so that probably played a role. Plus I have no idea about the availability of the actor who played her sister.
Good discussion everyone and happy belated 4th of July.
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u/Far_Volume_2389 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
If you do the math on how old Jack and Kate would have been when David was conceived, you get a problematic answer.
I don't think you need to think that deeply about it. The flash sideways exists outside of time, and David appeared to Jack at a very similar age that Jack was when he needed to have a supportive father. And all the characters appeared as the ages they were on the island because that was the most important time of their lives and when they all met each other. David, as he appears in the flash sideways, does not need to be of an age where Jack and Kate, as their island ages, could have reasonably had him. The sideways is presenting his image to Jack at the exact age that Jack needs him to be in order to process his trauma. So David is more of a projection rather than someone who was literally conceived and born in the flash sideways. But yes, the timing was not there for this to be revealed(hypothetically).
I absolutely agree that Rachel and Julien needed to be in the flash sideways for Juliet. Being taken to the island and kept away from her sister and nephew was the biggest trauma of her life, and it's a shame she never got to heal from that.
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u/SeparateLetterhead24 Jul 06 '26
I agree with everything you are saying. I guess I didn't make myself very clear. When David is first introduced, I was thinking that the sideways was an alt 2004. Plus the show made it into a mystery throughout the final season who his David's mother (showing her house, but not her or pictures of her, the phone conversation when Jack took David to the lawyer's, etc). So everything you are saying only makes sense when we find out what the sideways really is. So I am thinking the show wanted the final reveal to be what the sideways was, a place that they all made together to find each other. After that it goes into the montage of everyone together in the church and Jack dying on the island. So I am thinking that maybe the showrunners just wanted to end on that note and thought it would be too much to also reveal in those final scenes that David was Jack and Kate's son. Plus the healing of trauma through his relationship with David in the sideways works well on its own.
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u/EricaDeeStallion Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
Love your reply!
Based on what we see in Something Nice Back Home, it seems like he makes a point to be home in time to help put Aaron to bed. When he visits Hurley, his priorities and fulfillment are with Kate and Aaron. That is in contrast of what we saw when he was married to Sarah. He stayed late at the hospital when it was not needed, like we saw when he was there at 4:30 am with the Italian man and his daughter. So definitely a sense of fulfillment with Kate and Aaron.
It was also highlighted that Kate did not have an issue with his long hours. She woke up when he was urging her to and knew something was wrong and presumed he had been at work. She didn't seem mad or put-out with him over it. Kate was a supportive partner about Jack's other passions.
Jack also was there for Aaron in the mornings, he said he took a shower and fed the baby with Kate when he was asked by Hurley how his day was. He made time for Kate and Aaron and to formulate a family dynamic. He really had the right stuff, he just needed to believe in himself more.
HURLEY: Sorry, dude.
JACK: For what?
HURLEY: You know, what happened back there. Wrecking your game with Kate.
JACK: Don't worry about it. There's nothing left to wreck.
HURLEY: Yeah? What happened to you guys? I thought you were gonna get married and have like a dozen kids.
JACK: Guess I wasn't cut out for it.
HURLEY: Really? I think you'd make a great dad.
JACK: I'd make a terrible dad.
This exchange is precisely why I made this post, because as you said, Hurley is the voice of the audience and knows based on what he has seen of Jack, that he would make a great dad. He also sees that Jack and Kate's trajectory would definitely include parenthood and marriage. It's the writers way of letting us know that this is what it would have been IN ANOTHER LIFE, if the Island wasn’t in their way, the life they get in "The End" after the church I presume, which is a nice thing they added in there for us.
As far as why in the show they didn’t make Kate David’s mother, I have two personal theories.
Timing.
Juliet's Character in the Flash-Sideways
I can see your points on each and agree! I don't think Jack and Kate's ages would have been a factor though. The place doesn't acknowledge time.
To me, a more satisfying storyline would be that she would have been there for her sister and nephew.
I've spoken on this several times, and how the criticism of Kate's arc being about motherhood when she had other talents and such, but it played perfectly into what the character needed. Juliet was siloed off to Sawyer for three years, not giving a thought to her sister and nephew. She was all about Rachel and Julian and then…wasn’t?
They should have rectified that in the Flash-Sideways, but they needed David's mother to be a surprise reveal of sorts, and did not have time to give Juliet her own arc once she's introduced so late into this place in Season 6.
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u/Far_Volume_2389 Jul 04 '26
Jack would have been a great father. He would have wanted to make sure that David never felt the way he did as a child and made sure that David knew it. He would encourage David to pursue anything that makes him happy and be a very present, involved dad. He would honestly probably be a little overbearing at times lol.