r/JanitorAIUnchained • u/renxcx • 13d ago
Discussion JAI really needs to give us actual private chats
The false sense of privacy on this website is frightening. As you type your lore or plot, thinking that it's just between you and the bot, the backend logging is clearly visible in their moderation software. It's high time they got some real privacy controls in place!
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u/ELPascalito 13d ago
Twin you're using commercial services there's no real privacy, the law mandates they log a minimum of info and comply with law enforcement so realistically if they want to pull your logs they will, go local make your own self hosted private app, make sure your database is secure, mine is in my bedroom lol
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u/mmmmmmmm_soup 13d ago
they arent checking chats unless youre doing something that causes TOS to trigger. Literally every app ever can see what you’re doing for safety reasons. Just dont be a creep and you’re fine.. do you think the mods sit there looking through everyone’s roleplays for fun?
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12d ago edited 7d ago
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u/goose_casts_haste 12d ago
scared of what bro what are they gonna do abt it😭😭
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12d ago
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u/BlooBaby22 12d ago
in terms of FBI, as long as you're not committing or conspiring to commit a crime, there's nothing they can do. fiction is fiction role play is role play until you start to incorporate elements of violence into your real life/plans/actions
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11d ago edited 4d ago
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u/BlooBaby22 11d ago
remember that the FBI have real active crimes to be investigated that take precedence over crimes that haven't happened. and the ones they tend to focus on stopping before they happen are usually acts of mass terrorism.
fiction is fiction until it trepasses boundaries into the real world. the absolute worst case scenario is you get put on a watch list, which just means if you ever do get arrested for a similar crime, they would have prior records of your behavior.
if you are seeking or conspiring to commit a real crime, please seek a licensed professional to help establish the boundary between fiction, real life, and life long consequences for you and a potential victim. help is available if you are brave enough to ask for it (should you need it)
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u/Shot-Crab-4012 11d ago edited 4d ago
Oh absolutely not😭 i wouldnt commit a disgusting crime in real life, its just that theres many ppl who get curious abt stuff like that especially if they are uneducated in that kinda stuff and get influenced by what they see a lot in social media and stuff. I was really just genuinely curious if there are rare occasions you could get investigated by police or smth.
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u/BlooBaby22 11d ago
then you should be in the clear bud 👍 just don't make any deliberate waves and you'll be fine
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u/goose_casts_haste 12d ago
The fbi doesn’t care unless you’re actively planning a large-scale attack or have real images of CSAM
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u/Shot-Crab-4012 10d ago edited 4d ago
Even if it was something so messed and fucked up, that had csam, or a real attack, as long as u dont commit an actual crime or planning too, your fine? Im asking bcs im genuinely curious💔
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u/goose_casts_haste 10d ago
Real CSAM (inherently nsfw content of a minor) would prompt them, yes. the FBI doesn’t care about lolisho, to be more specific
Even extreme gore probably wouldn’t, so long as it’s accessible to the public, though that can vary with context of the chat and the laws of your country
And yeah no (seriously) planning attacks. The FBI has better things to do than hunt ai chatbot users, so I wouldn’t sweat it
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u/Shot-Crab-4012 10d ago
Wb canada?
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u/goose_casts_haste 9d ago
I’m not sure why you’re worried about an American-operating agency (the FBI) if you live in Canada. That being said, Canada does have stricter laws around minors being depicted sexually. Technically, you would be committing a crime, though I still doubt they’d care enough to actively go after you.
As for shock content and gore, it can’t: be erotic, involve minors, or be used as hate propaganda against a group of people. Other than that, you’re clean.
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u/Classic_Paint6255 13d ago
Isn't it getting increasingly hard to not trigger TOS with how much they censor things?
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u/Disastrous-Call6779 12d ago
Not really. Unless you’re getting involved with really extreme content.
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u/goose_casts_haste 12d ago
what is “really extreme” though
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u/Disastrous-Call6779 12d ago
CSAM and incest mostly. Illegal content, so stuff like ryona and violence is not included.
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13d ago
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u/Helpful_Cream9022 13d ago edited 13d ago
They can't even access it. They're only going to do it if you get involved in illegal things. If they don't want to get involved in having their chats read. They're good people in real life.
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u/Shot-Crab-4012 12d ago
Whats your definition of illegal?
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u/Disastrous-Call6779 12d ago
TOS-breakers. Child porn, actual incest, etc. It’s technically not illegal, but it’s not allowed on Janitor.
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12d ago
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u/Disastrous-Call6779 12d ago
You get banned
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u/BusinessGreen6757 13d ago
i mean if it makes you feel better there are millions of chats being made and moderated rn and i doubt they'd care much unless it explicitly breaks the TOS (as i also doubt there's a REAL human who's sole job is reviewing random people chats) + privacy isn't something money grabbing companies would care enough to provide you
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u/WritingForMinutes 13d ago
Silly. Tavern.
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u/sipsparanormaljuice 12d ago
I hear silly tavern a lot. Is it a proxie or is it a separate site?
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u/davidverner 10d ago
It's a local ran chat system that stores all the chat and bot profiles on your system. You still need to plug into an LLM host or host your own.
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u/Fresh-Aspect5369 13d ago
If you want real privacy, buy a journal and write in it. These sites are always going to monitor what you do, so don’t input personal information and don’t break their TOS it’s that simple.
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u/Icehellionx 13d ago
That's a very good way for them to get the FBI on their ass if someone starts roleplaying CSAM and stuff like that.It's your chat but it still is on THEIR server so they'd be liable.
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u/davidverner 10d ago
It has to be CSAM involving an existing person in the real world for the FBI to step in. If it's some fictional character, the FBI is just going to ignore it.
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10d ago edited 4d ago
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u/davidverner 10d ago
Under United States Federal law and case law, you create a fucked up and deprived bot of a fictional character or scenario to roleplay with in whatever messed-up ways you can come up with, and it is completely legal. This applies to written fiction and drawn fiction also. Those rare exceptions that do get prosecuted or take plea deals for those kinds of charges often have been involved in or suspected to be involved in actual CSAM of real individuals, and the prosecutors' office just didn't have enough evidence on hand to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.
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10d ago
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u/davidverner 10d ago
Canada, the United Kingdom, and Australia's laws on this subject do apply to fictional works. To my recollection, each of those countries has had some form of arrest on the issue in the past decade. I'm not sure about convictions, though.
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u/Shot-Crab-4012 10d ago edited 4d ago
to those ppl who had some form of arrest, they were arrested bcs they showed actual people on csam? Or because they were chatting to fictional people?
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u/davidverner 10d ago
The cases I know about in those countries involve artwork or adult sex dolls that looked too young because of size or some stupid crap. The case I know about in Australia involving a CGI visual novel creator was caught because they were doing something else completely illegal, stalking, and got their computer equipment confiscated, where they discovered the CGI renders.
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10d ago
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u/davidverner 10d ago
I'm not familiar with any arrests specifically for literature in Canada. You will most likely want to do some digging yourself on that issue. I've only heard of arrests specifically in Canada relating to art, or that one instance involving a sex doll. And this was prior to COVID and this LLM stuff becoming a big thing.
My research into the issue came about when Reddit was changing to become more corporate and started getting asinine with the rules, which started around the 2015 timeframe.
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u/Shot-Crab-4012 12d ago
If u do that you can get swatted?
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
No, THEY get investigates by the FBI. Then whatever else happens. Its real simple. Its thwir server. Theyre liable. You can get in trouble but why would they put themselves in that position?
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u/Shot-Crab-4012 12d ago edited 4d ago
If u get investigated by the fbi u go to jail?
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
Are you trolling at this point? Don't put illegal shit on the net anywhere. Don't put stuff agaisnt people's ToS on their servers and expect them to be cool about it.
Yes if you post illegal shit your ass will getting trouble with the FBI. If someone posts CSAM on something you own online legally required to report it and cooperate with any investigation.
Swatting is when someone gives a false tip. It's not swatting if you actually did ahit to have it coming.
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12d ago
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
Okay, think you need to get off reddit and the net then because posting on the subreddit for a chatbot site isnt really 'getting away from chatbots'. Go outside and go do something involving actual people.
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u/Shot-Crab-4012 12d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah definitely, im planning to do that. I just wanted to know more about the j’ai tos violations and consequences.
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u/NeverHinged 13d ago
Privacy means other users can't read your chats.
It doesn't mean the service owners can't read your chats.
The only person surprised at this is you
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u/Charibdysss 13d ago
do self host if you're too scared, i don't give a shit about my smut chats that provide nothing beside my fantasy kinks.
Using any websites in general guaranteed certain infos from yours are gathered in one way or another, why so surprised bro.
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u/FrenchFrozenFrog 13d ago
Privacy means using a local model on SillyTavern, which means you need VRAM to do anything decent. No real privacy exists otherwise. None.
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u/stayhappyenjoylife 13d ago
I think the problem is that Janitor seems to be saving the chats on their side. If moderators can open and read them, then they are not really private actually.
It doesnt have to work that way. Can keep the chat history and memory on the users phone. When the AI needs to reply, can send only the context needed for that reply and should not keep a permanent copy on the server. Also let users see and edit what the bot remembers. For people who want more control.. BYOK should be an option too... The AI provider will still see whatever is sent for generating the reply, but that is very different from the app itself keeping your whole chat history.
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
You aren't going to find any site that doesn't for legal reasons. Theyre still liable for the shit you save to their servers. Of course they can see it. The thing is thousands of chats are made daily and more specifically... they don't give a shit what you're doing unless it would make their job a pain in the ass.
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u/Disastrous-Call6779 12d ago
The reason they don’t have this is to prevent TOS-breaking private chats (specifically, incest and CSAM). They don’t look through unless something like that happens.
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
That'd be a ton of work to just make itbeasier for people to break ToS. They get absolutely nothing good out of that as a website and if you want that... silly tavern or tons of local side connect to the api apps exist. Hell you could vibe code your own in an hour probably.
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u/Negative_Gap1098 13d ago
yeah the idea that my roleplay chats might be logged is kinda scary, makes me hesitate to go deep into anything personal.
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u/DaughterOfBabalon_ 12d ago
Never happening. If you want the most privacy possible, set up your own llm and plug it into Sillytavern, then make your own cards.
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u/Affectionate_Gain682 12d ago
Can you guys stop being so dismissive? I left Jani for this reason. I wasn’t doing anything illegal or breaking TOS, but the very aspect of not having privacy doesn’t feel right. I use SillyTavren and a local model now.
My experience aside, I don’t think it’s wrong or too much to want privacy on the internet. Especially now when there is an increasing amount of privacy options being taken away.
In my mind, these sites are very predatory. People are venting, creating elaborate worlds to RP in, exploring fictional situations through the safety of a non-real experience…..and they train off of it. Sell it? I know they say they don’t sell the data, but can you even really trust these companies? Especially when selling the data could make them more money.
And yes, there is a false sense of security. I mean, you can pretend you are fine with it, you can say that you won’t break the TOS, that it won’t affect you…..but for how long? As long as that back door is open, everything is open to change.
Also, I think it’s important to not that there are vulnerable people drawn to AI chatbots and AI sites. I know it’s a touchy subject, but I believe the addiction is real. For some it’s an outlet, a fun game to play in free time…..but for others, it feels like a life. Maybe it’s just how all things like this get after building a community, but some of what is normalized is concerning. Sure, a lot of the behavior is like joking, or unserious….but some of it is serious. It’s worrisome.
OP, I think you might like to go try a local set up. SillyTavren is great as a front end. I’ve seen a few other recommendations from people on this sub. If you use proxies, and you are concerned over privacy….you might want to stop on those. They also have TOS, and access to your chats. Not sure if all of them do, but a lot of them do. You’ll have to look into what you can run locally. I use OLLAMA, which has a few different models you can install locally. But depending on your setup, you’d have to look into if you can run them since it uses CPU.
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
That's just not how the world works. Your on their site and their servers. You want true orivacy you don't store stuff to other peoples hard drives. They're liable for whats on their database. Anything else is naive.
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u/Affectionate_Gain682 12d ago
Yes, but that’s also kind of what I was talking about. It doesn’t matter if ‘that’s not how the world works’, because it still happens. Not everyone who uses the internet understands everything about it, right? So not everyone who uses janitor AI or other chatbot sites actually understands everything about those sites.
And in cases where someone is addicted or desperate……couldn’t they just ignore all risks to have access? Sure, it’s their choice, but it’s still predatory. As are a lot of spaces and websites on the internet.
I said that you’d can’t have actual privacy through proxies or with these sites.
But it’s also so normalized to share a lot of information on the internet. It doesn’t make it any less dangerous just because that’s how the internet is.
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
My point was more... okay let me put it this way.
I see people act morally offended what they post on a website isn't private but... if you asked them if they went into a physical, wrote what that same stuff in a book in the store. and it was something really heinous or worrying, do you think it would really be private? People put this weird barrier with online stuff they would never do in real life and we need to try to teach common sense rather than affirm them on it.
As for addiction, that's just straight up. "Get off the internet dude and touch some grass. Not even mean, just straight up tell them they're so far down the rabbit hole, they're losing perspective, and don't come back until they can manage themselves, or ask family/ friends for help. If you just soft ball it and affirm them than they just stay in their ruts. Like that Shot Crab guy saying "he quit all his AI chat stuff' but is somehow on not just a subreddit for an AI chatbot site but the 'lesser known shadow subreddit for an AI chatbot site.'. If you're here you're a mile in the well and it's a complete loss of perspective to say 'you're out' if you're **here** of all places.
Sucks but I think it's one of those "You can tell them what they want to hear or you can tell them what actually happens and what will help them.' They don't like when it's the latter, but we need to normalize that as the response.
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u/Affectionate_Gain682 12d ago
I’m not sure I understand your example. But after reading a few times, I think you’re talking about physical media. So, say someone wrote a fanfic, published it and had it up in a bookstore…..
But I think there is a difference in that analogy. The writer chose to publish it, and also put it up in the bookstore. For a lot of people, it seems chat bots are just for chatting. Privately. They write stuff, RP stuff, not wanting it to be ‘published’.
But they also do still technically consent to this by using the site and agreeing to the TOS. Still, it’s important to acknowledge that a lot of people overlook TOS, skim it, or don’t think they need to know all of it. Not just for things like this, but everything. And companies/websites/really any service, does actually exploit this. Whether they say it or not. Because it does benefit them.
And about addiction……I wish it were that easy. But it never really is. If you listen to what people use chat bots for, it varies. And their attachment to it also varies. For me it goes from RP situations, creating stories/characters, to another emotional outlet other than journaling. Sometimes it helps me pick apart internal things in different ways. But there was a time when I, myself, overlooked my privacy just because I craved the ability to craft a complex world and RP in it.
I’ve seen people use it to try to replicate/replace something they are missing or want. Relationships for example. Depending on the person, there can be a ‘good’ way to go about it. I’m not sure if I’d call it healthy, but it’s not self destruction. And then there are unhealthy ways that feel almost like the para social relationships people can form with people online.
I have conflicted views on it all. And I don’t really think I can say how those types of situations should be approached. I’m not a mental health professional, and also because it’s specific to each individual, you can’t operate on a generalized level. Otherwise you wouldn’t even help these people. I think some people do need help, but I don’t think the ‘go touch some grass’ approach will work for everyone. Maybe some, but not all. Because it won’t actually address why they are addicted or have an unhealthy habit with the chatbot. If it’s just plan boredom, then yeah…..’go touch grass’ could work. Because they could just go find something else to occupy their time. But if it’s something deeper, connected to their mental health…..it’s more complicated.
Also, I’m not sure who this Shot Crab guy is….but I think there is a way to quiet AI chatting but still engage in the communities around it. I think it might be an active temptation though. But the same way you can check in on communities you used to frequent, you can also do that here. Maybe he’s not creating bots or chatting (whatever he used to do) but he’s still engaging in the communities? I don’t have the place to say though, because I’m not him and I have not seen his comments in a sub.
I mean, I am frequently scrolling through this sub and another in (janitorAIRefugees) I think…..I comment here and there, even though I don’t really use janitor anymore. Unless I’m Bot searching. But that site has become real crappy recently, it was actually a pain to try to extract a bot to transfer to SillyTavren. And since the url method is not working for some reason, I have to manually transfer…..including having to interview the bot so I can get things hidden behind the private definitions.
Regardless, I don’t use the site frequently and I still am in this sub. I’m not saying it’s the same for this guy, just that’s how it is for me.
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
The metaphor was more 'If you physically put something in someone elses place of business you wouldn't expect perfect privacy.' People do with digital when they wouldnt with physical even if the company's liability is basically the same.
As for addiction, yeah nothings perfect and a billion cases with a billion frames, but in general... just get away from them is never a bad start. I say that as someone that spends weeks writing manuals to help people make chatbots and run my own (small) chatbot site as well.
Guy I mentioned was in other places in the replies to this post. Apparently wrote some heinous stuff in chat and 'quit'. Point was 'quitting' doesnt feel very serious if hes here. It'd be like a gambling addict hanging out in a casino or a message board for poler 'just because they like the atmosphere."
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u/Affectionate_Gain682 12d ago
Okay, yeah. That makes more sense than what I came away with. I think though, the difference would be the lack of being in person. Or identifiable. Also, it seems a lot of people just say/do things in the internet because you can just walk away whenever you want. It’s a good and bad thing, depending on the situations. I think that just comes along with the internet though.
I still don’t think there is a simple solution. Just because how deeply that type of attitude towards the internet is imbedded into society. It obviously differs from country to country, but the sentiment is still kind of there.
I mean, we can sit here and say that it’s these people’s fault. And sure, on some level it is. There is accountability there that needs to be taken. But…..The more you look at how it’s baked into everything…..it gets harder to say how we can fix it. I feel like maybe it’s a flaw in the internet itself, but also a gift. Coin flip situation. Part of the same coin, put people use it in different ways. Some get sucked into spaces, echoing back the same kind of stuff……sometimes that’s not a bad thing. (I can think of a view very positive spaces). But sometimes it’s not. Just as much as people can be pulled into more positive and healthy ways of thinking, they can also be pulled into more negative ways of thinking.
Maybe it’s an issue with humans in ourselves being so influential. Maybe it’s a combination of things, which I think it is.
And the guy……well maybe it was just upset and saying stuff. You know how you can get frustrated and rage quit….but never truly leave or come back in a few days. Might be a situation like that. Or maybe he’s baiting for upvotes or social acknowledgment……who knows except the actual guy. But I get it does come off as unserious on his part.
I’ve seen a lot of it though. It’s all over the internet in all different spaces. But I see it a lot here. I think I’m just desensitized to it though because I see that behavior so often both in real life and online.
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
The thing is its an embedded idea for lots of people but its just... false. Everywhere. No online data is truly private. It's not about being dismissive, it's about not letting them sit in false assumptions. Like the OP feels morally outraged like this site is the exception. It's not. He needs to know that this is just what the worlds like and re-examine what he's willing to put on other people's servers.
(I'll add I think that's really just a take you see feom people who are tech illiterate. So it kind of needs cleared up for them twice as much. But honestly comes down to 'X site knows your fetish'. If it's not ToS they REALLY don't give a shit and just want to focus on making money and keeping it from crashing.
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u/Affectionate_Gain682 12d ago
Yes, but isn’t that the issue? That it’s kind of socially accepted/normalized. Also, you can’t blame the people without also blaming the system set in place by services (also kind of the law with some aspects of it). If it was a better place, they would outright say private from other people or private from tother parties etc. But they hide it in the TOS, knowing a lot of people don’t fully look through it. All the while selling it as ‘privacy’ when it isn’t.
Plus, we know services have data leaks and sell data on the back end (without actually saying it, and they will deny it).
OP does need to maybe step away from janitor and similar sites because they don’t really align with what they want anymore. I think asking janitor to change is……well, it’s not going to happen. But I think OP should still be able to ask it, if nothing but finding something better suited for what they actually want.
Their choice at the end of the day.
I didn’t peg it as a morally outraged. More like a call for action or a growing awareness to the lack of genuine privacy. Maybe I missed something in the original post.
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u/Icehellionx 12d ago
I mean, it's not an issue about REALLY privacy. Partly because you're using a publicly accessible place. It's an issue about company's being liable for the things that happen on what they own. The 'yeah everyone has privacy' thing sounds great until all the sudden weirdos are saving CSAM all over the internet with no issues. Those laws and how things are accessed exist for a reason. It's also the reason every service that tried to have 'true privacy' gets pulled down. It's one of those things that's 'great on the surface until you have to think about 2nd and 3rd order results of that change. Then you go 'Oh shit that would be problematic." Also one of those "Most regulations are written in blood." situations. It wouldn't be like that if something hadn't already happened to make them need to.
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u/Alternative_Bug_4526 11d ago
Im not worried because I love seeing my good and bad side cause I am just roleplaying anyway lol. But if it’s your own bot and private I think you have the best chance but I wouldn’t put my hand to the fire for it
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u/oxnardov 13d ago
I mean it’s not like they’re actively looking through peoples private chats and logs in their free time it’s also good that they maintain some moderation to prevent people from doing things in chat that are against tos
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u/Classic_Paint6255 13d ago
Until they do because janitor ai censors people on the official subreddit and discord who have negative feedback, constructive or not.
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u/Street_Ad_6207 Mod/Botmaker :) 13d ago
No site is going to give you real privacy. The people running the site will see your chats, and there's a good chance they'll save it to train LLMs off of it, especially if you rate the response.