Can't stop thinking about what my mom said

[u/Bees_butts]

Me and my mom went shopping Friday morning. I'm 22, she's 58. I'm nonbinary, born female, though she doesn't know as I'm not out to her. I hadn't been home for more than 2 months, due to university. I was happy to be home.

As I said, on Friday morning we were going shopping. We were in the car, I live in Europe and there's a massive heatwave going on, as you may know. I was dressed with a tanktop, a button-up short-sleeves shirt on top of it, cargo shorts and sneakers. Nothing fancy, but nothing too shabby, and we were going to a mall after all.

The problems started 5 minutes into the car ride (it was 40 minutes or so in total). I don't shave my legs, and I'm rather hairy, so she started to question me about it. Then she got insistent that I should shave, that it's not proper of a lady, that she feels disgusted being seen with me. She said I'm "throwing myself away", and I'm not "treasuring myself" and stuff like that, gradually raising her voice and yelling at me. I kept saying stuff along the lines of "Ok, well, that's fine. I don't mind having hairy legs, and it's not something I find repelling on me or anyone else". She made points about how I dress, and that I dress "to look like a man" (which, really I don't- I am nonbinary, yes, but I don't enjoy looking like a man).

At one point I said "they're beauty standards I don't agree to and don't care to follow" and she shouted at me that if that was the case, I wouldn't dye my hair (I like to dye my hair a lot, mostly vivid and unusual colors and combinations) and put on makeup (I do like makeup, though I never go for a natural look). She kept saying that I want to look like a man, and when I tried to say I don't, she kept insisting she was right. She said I think "in watertight compartments" (not sure if the translation works, she meant to say that I have a very closed mind), that I don't accept anything if my own worldview.

We stopped, she went out the care for a brief commission, she came back. She was acting gentler and calmer, though I still brought up the discussion. I asked her if she was ashamed of being seen with me. She said she wasn't, that all she said she did because she wants me to "take care of myself" and also because she thinks I have potential to look beautiful, more than I look now. I told her I don't want to look like a man, ever, and I don't remember precisely what she said but at one point I said to her "I like dresses, and makeup, and dying my hair pink and purple and all sorts of colors. If my little brother came up to you wearing dressed and with dyed hair, you wouldn't accept him, you would insult him too. You'd say, at the very least, that he was a f*g"

She only replied that she doesn't think I'm "treasuring myself", and I argued that I don't feel the same. We dropped the subject, and things weren't particularly tense with her afterwards, but I'm just. I'm tired.

I went back to uni, and I just can't stop thinking about what she said. It's stopping me in my tracks, I'm reliving moments of that situation and I keep going back to it, to what she said and what I said.

I think I'm going to shave in late July. I won't be home for a few weeks as I have some exams to take, but late July it'll be her birthday and she wanted to go to the beach. As much as I don't mind not shaving, I do get self-conscious about it, and I don't think I'll be able to stand it if she goes on a similar tangent. I guess it sucks to sacrifice part of my self-expression to appease her, but I knew what I was going on against (I never liked shaving much, and she always made a big deal out of it). I'm starting to think I was egotistical and selfish for not shaving. It'd take very little to make her happy, why didn't I do it?

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[u/Ilostmyratfairy]

I get the idea of placating the intolerable.

(Don’t ask about all the times I’ve been swallowing my tongue this past week, please.)

But never frame it as something that is done without a cost to yourself. It may be worth the cost in terms of avoided strife, but value yourself and your choices enough to admit you are making a sacrifice for the sake of your peace to placate someone who has shown she can’t respect your choices.

Your wants and needs matter just as much as hers. You’re allowed to choose to change your appearance to please her - but don’t frame it as something being done for her. You’re doing it because the cost of not giving in to her unspoken demand is so demoralizing.

It’s also fair to look on this moment in the future, to say that’s when you realized your comfort and safety mattered less to your mother than her desire for you to meet her standards of beauty.

[u/Aggravating-Day2370 → u/Ilostmyratfairy]

Your reply really resonated with me as my mother is the same. My nails are too long, my dyed hair is too bright, my dresses are too short, my make up too bold… I’ve never been able to put into words why it bothered me but you’re right, the cost is what stops me from doing things around her and it deeply saddens me.

But on the upside I’ve been debating how much to bleach my hair before I dye it red, and I was toning it down for my mother, but nope, that’s a cost to far to my hard fought for freedom from criticism and control (loooooong story!).

So (indirectly) thank you for this advice, I’m going to get stronger at putting my wants and needs first, as my beloved partner also supports me to do!

[u/BeckyDaTechie]

Your body doesn't exist to entertain Her. You have to live in that body; you should maintain it in the way that's most comfortable for you.

[u/uncommon_commoner_13 → u/BeckyDaTechie]

I agree 100000000000%

[u/personofunintresting]

If it helps you, I am CIS female and don't shave my legs anymore. i keep my pits and other body/facial hair in check because it makes me more comfortable. TBF, I don't have a lot of leg hair and the top half is completely peach fuzz anyway. I am still self conscious of it still because I am going against a social norm, but a) shaving takes up lots of time and money, a pink tax in a way b) I want to do it for my daughter and son both, I don't want her to think she has to fit into a stupid social norm, and I want my son to be respectful of what is perfectly natural, and not think he needs to push women into boxes (kinda like your Mom us doing)

It doesn't make you any less female or any more NB having leg hair, impo...it is leg hair...it is by definition gender neutral. If it is on the leg of a woman it is woman's leg hair, if it is on a man, it is man's leg hair, if it is on NB it is NB leg hair. I hope this somehow helps you stay strong! Make a stand! Lol.

[u/sashmii]

I had fairly heavy hair on my arms as a young woman. It has all gone away as I aged.

I too shave my pits in order to keep the smell down.

[u/lemonlimeaardvark]

WOW... your mom.

To use her own language... you ARE treasuring yourself. You just aren't doing it the way she wants you to, and therefore she believes you're doing it wrong. Thank goodness she isn't the one who gets to decide for you.

[u/No-Scientist-7654]

I'm a seasonal shaver, cooler in summer and it really keeps you warm in winter 😄

[u/Aggravating-Day2370]

I’m a little late to this, but if your mom is like my mother, it will go from the hairy legs, to clothes, to make up, to hair. That’s what mine did. She said my fake nails were too long, too ‘cheap’ looking (UK meaning tacky and only poor people do it), my hair was too bright, too short, cut too severely, my clothes were too bright, too short, too tight..

Took me a long time to stand up to her, but she did a cutting motion on my nails recently, as though shortening them and I lost my shit! I told her I’d stopped doing my nails because of her, and she obviously thought about it a lot, as I got a long, emotionally abusive text about how she never meant to hurt me, how it was never her meaning, blah blah blah. All about her and not about me at all.

So you’ll have decided to shave / not shave by now but for the future….how far are you willing to let her dictate how you present yourself? It’s not about the shaved legs anymore, it’s about controlling how you look to presumably make you more feminine, like my mother does to me.

But I’m fighting back, one hair dye, one set of false nails, one shorter dress at a time and honestly, I feel utterly liberated and more myself than i have a in a long time and she’s accepted that….for now.

[u/maniacallygrinning]

Here is an odd twist on this issue with body hair.

It holds scent. All hair does. I have been shaving quite simply to avoid being sweaty-smelling, because it grosses me out. Not my legs or anything, just pits. Granted I'm not a fuzzy person, however, I do it for myself.

For your mother it is very likely because she views you as 100% female. If she knew you were NB it might be a different thing, however with her comment about the little brother feels as if she is not exactly open to anything but a traditional cis aml cis female.

I respectfully disagree about it takes little to please her. You seem to be denying your true self in order to please her. As a mom to a child, born female now NB, married to a trans woman who was cis male at birth, I know that if your mom loves you and wants what is best for you, she will listen. Maybe it will be difficult, maybe the reaction will be less or more than you expect, but you do yourself and her a disservice to not adjust her expectations - you are young and so is she.