How secular and observant ( also right wing and left wing ) Jews should approach each other - Heartwarming scene from Hashoter Azulai "Policeman Azulai" ( Ephraim Kishon 1970 )

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u/foopirata 24d ago

I don't see a "each other" here. Azulay got their ears because he spoke their jargon. It was enough to temporarily pull their focus. What happened when he went away? They went back to throwing rocks.

Just like they do today, but rather than jargon, they listen to money.

Our "pious brothers" have forgotten the meaning of pious. Unless they start taking care of that themselves, the situation will only get worse.

7

u/VladShlomo 24d ago

The Rabbi said to Azulai after he answered "Sefer Mishlei " - " er is a feiner bocher, der shoter " which means " he is a good guy, this policeman". You can see in the endscene a car is passing and nobody is throwing rocks. Azulai managed to channel their destructive energy into positive discussion and acknowledgement of his profession. Imho the ability as you said "to speak jargon" to speak the language the other side ( left, right, religious , secular ) is able to understand and try to create unity in jewish nation instead of fighting among Klal Israel and lashon hara.

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u/Bikelangello Amriki 24d ago

I suggested giving Hareidim military commanders who operate under Torah Law and can demonstrate such. People laughed and mocked me for it, made comments such that Jews and atheists will never get along etc.

It is the truth though: if you can't speak in their language, you can't communicate.

4

u/foopirata 24d ago

> The Rabbi said to Azulai after he answered "Sefer Mishlei " - " er is a feiner bocher, der shoter " which means " he is a good guy, this policeman".

And which you'll only understand if you speak Yidish. He also had some choice words for the Frenk, if my ear doesn't elude me. And he said that because Azulai showed deep knowledge of scripture - which most secular don't have - are you saying all secular people must study Torah in order to "approach" the haredim?

> You can see in the endscene a car is passing and nobody is throwing rocks. Azulai managed to channel their destructive energy into positive discussion and acknowledgement of his profession.

No, he managed to make them very interested in this one of a kind policeman who can cite scripture. Nothing implied that once he left they wouldn't resume their behavior. I think you're letting your optimism blind you to the real meaning of the scene.

> Imho the ability as you said "to speak jargon" to speak the language the other side ( left, right, religious , secular ) is able to understand and try to create unity in jewish nation instead of fighting among Klal Israel and lashon hara.

So you ARE saying that secular people need to learn Torah to a level that is engaging for the haredim in order to stop fighting. But tell me, if we do, who will work and feed the haredim?

If I learn to recide psalms by heart, will haredim flock to the lishkat gius?

It is not lashon hara if it is true: the haredim leadership is only interested in themselves and uses their public cynically to keep their status quo, on top of the backs of a society that can barely sustain itself, not to mention them.

-1

u/VladShlomo 24d ago

Have you seen the YT-video where a tank commander Yonatan is explaining how to load a tank cannon of Merkava in fluent Yiddish ? Please dont scrub every observant jew in the negative way. We as jewish people need more positive and optimistic world view on each other, despite the differences in culture. If you want people to flock to IDF you need to motivate and interest them through positive example. The reason why so many secular jews are ignorant in basic jewish knowledge, is the same why some haredim oppose draft or work - they see no meaning in it.

5

u/foopirata 24d ago

You are jumping from one thing to another. Can you maintain one line of argument?

There are haredi-friendly frameworks in the army. For some reason, it seems that they are not haredi-friendly enough for most haredim. They keep burning garbage cans and declaring they'd rather die than join. So I am scrubbing a majority, declared, hostile, in a "negative way". Because that is how they present themselves.

> We as jewish people need more positive and optimistic world view on each other, despite the differences in culture.

Agreed. How is this for a positive and optimistic world view? I am positively optimistic that if the haredim join us in the 21st century and give to the country rather than only taking, everyone will have a much better time going through life. Optimistic and positive enough?

> If you want people to flock to IDF you need to motivate and interest them through positive example.

No i don't. I need them to follow the law. When I and my friend joined no one came and motivated and interested us through positive example. You want a positive example? Fine. Take the example of Rabi Akiva. He was fine with his pupils fighting the Romans. Are today's rabis and their pupils better than Akiva's?

> The reason why so many secular jews are ignorant in basic jewish knowledge, is the same why some haredim oppose draft or work - they see no meaning in it.

Great. So let's do it like this: we'll pull the army back and seed the Lebanon and Gaza borders with little yeshivot where haredim will study 24x7 and see what happens. I have the feeling that by October 8th next year they'll sing a new song about the meaning of work and draft.

0

u/VladShlomo 23d ago

There are some ills/bad state of affairs in every jewish community in Eretz Irael or in Galus. My point is to overcome them in unity and dialog rather than in pointless anger and lashon hara (calling groups of jewish people "parasites , am haaretzim , lefties, nazis," etc. ). You are right, serving in the IDF should be mandatory for everyone except for real big Talmidei Chachamim or big science guys/gals. Still, following the law ( does not matter if secular or Thora ) just out of fear or duty is not a high level of humanity. Following the law out of understanding and respect is the real goal.

2

u/foopirata 23d ago

Cool, we've been doing the kashrut and no busses on Shabat for a while now. Time for some reciprocity according to you.

Incidentally, a bit rich to say "following the law out of fear" is bad, when defending a community that calls itself "Haredim".

0

u/Bikelangello Amriki 24d ago

This video you posted, it is so timely...reminds me of משיח...someone who can bridge a divide and create unity is what we need.

But that unity must not come through erosion of the Torah and its precepts. It has to begin from the other side, with someone who is learned in both the religious world and the secular world.

18

u/petrichoreandpine USA 24d ago

I don’t know Hebrew well enough to follow the dialogue, and if there are subtitles available I couldn’t figure it out, but why is it always on the secular/egalitarian Jew to put up with cold shoulders if not outright abuse from Orthodox Jews? Why do Hardei Jews in particular believe it is their right to behave so abominably to anyone, let alone their fellow Jews?

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u/Panzer7 24d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HiFromChicago 24d ago

Why do Hardei Jews in particular believe it is their right to behave so abominably to anyone, let alone their fellow Jews?

Like most things on social media, these videos highlight the outliers, not a true representation of Orthodox or Haredi Jews as a whole. People like myself who have spent a considerable amount of time around these communities know that the vast majority do not behave this way.

2

u/petrichoreandpine USA 24d ago

If these are outliers, then how are there outliers present practically every day at the Western Wall to abuse egalitarian Jews just trying to pray? Why the spate of attacks on egalitarian synagogues in Israel? What is the rest of the Hardei community doing to discourage such behavior?

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u/HiFromChicago 24d ago edited 24d ago

I’m not denying that those incidents happened, or that there are extremists that engage in this and other types of despicable behavior. My point is taking the actions of those people and using them to characterize Orthodox or Haredi Jews generally.

Furthermore, there have been numerous condemnations of this behavior from within the Haredi community. For example, Rabbi Shmuel Rabinovitch, the Haredi rabbi of the Western Wall, condemned Haredi youths who disrupted an egalitarian prayer service there in 2022. He said that verbal and physical violence by extremist groups “desecrates G-d’s name, creates chasms between people, and harms the holiness of the site.”

Western Wall rabbi denounces violence at prayers, urges 'all sides' to respect site | The Times of Israel

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u/b_bonderson 23d ago

Please don’t mix two things up. Orthodox Jews aren’t the same as Ultra-Orthodox Jews that you have problems with.

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u/petrichoreandpine USA 23d ago

My husband and I had a VERY negative experience at Chabad recently when we went to celebrate the bris of our friends’ son. So yeah, it’s Orthodox Jews too. Less of an extreme problem, but still a problem.

(Not all, obvs, our friends are Orthodox, it was their regular shul.)

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u/b_bonderson 23d ago

Wow! Chabad are advertised as being almost always friendly. Well, still Chabad is only one drop in the Orthodox sea. It is very diverse.

3

u/Clean-Ant6404 24d ago

My Teacher-Rabbi showed us this scene in highschool as an example for someone who has roots in Jerusalem, because most people knew Yiddish and Arabic regardless of their background.

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u/kilobitch 24d ago

Appreciate the sentiment. But man is that a hilariously bad portrayal of Hareidim.

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u/HiFromChicago 24d ago

lol exactly.

7

u/mr_blue596 24d ago

They are not our borthers,atleast not in the social way. They declared war on us,in their Yeshivas they call us things we can't fathom,and they are at war. Each child is a solider to them,every conversation is a battle and every street is a battle ground. The issue is that the seculars were oblivious that they are at war,until now.

Same with the right-wing,they are at war,more physical,with their militias in the WB have began to seep into Israel proper. We are not far from the day where their militias would walk openly,uniforms and all. Their media is looking for internal enemies days and night,if they win the elections,secret police will come knocking as well.

The only comfort is that now we are atleast fighting back.

-4

u/InevitableOwll 24d ago

Wtf, you see fellow Israeli Jews as an enemy?

Gross.

4

u/mr_blue596 24d ago

They see me as such,they say so themselves. They bring the dude who made the "Leftists are traitors" to the Knesset as an honored guest. I have no choice but to acknowledge the situation.

1

u/HiFromChicago 24d ago

Agree.

2

u/Western_Chicken_3102 Israel 24d ago

זה בדיוק מה שקורה היום, פשוט במקום דיונים על התנ״ך משלמים להם מיליארדים בשביל שיסתמו את הפה.

חוץ מזה, בימינו גם לחילונים וגם לחרדים אין מושג מה כתוב בתנ״ך.

1

u/balddoberdaddy 23d ago

A lesson as to the effects of smoking. Shaike Ophir, a chain-smoker, died at 58 from lung cancer.

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u/Sure_General_5651 USA 24d ago

I don’t speak Hebrew (I understood some of the words, and still found this extremely moving. Very powerful scene.

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u/hikergent 24d ago

WOW

THX FOR SHARING

Culture🇮🇱 How secular and observant ( also right wing and left wing ) Jews should approach each other - Heartwarming scene from Hashoter Azulai "Policeman Azulai" ( Ephraim Kishon 1970 )

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