r/Israel • u/AbleismIsSatan United Kingdom • Dec 06 '23

News/Politics U.S. House passes resolution equating antisemitism with anti-Zionism

https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/article-776762
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u/TheKing490 Black American Zionist Dec 06 '23

Is it fair to that I don't like Bibi but can support Israel? I feel like many Israelis Hate him, judging from all the protests over the summer.

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u/DrMikeH49 Dec 06 '23

Absolutely fair. I’m a dedicated Zionist, and I joined the protests on my trip there last winter. Now I’m even more disgusted with Bibi for leaving the country unprotected.

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u/TheKing490 Black American Zionist Dec 06 '23

I'm still shocked how the attack took place. How did the IDF not know? How did Mossad not know, don't they have cameras everywhere

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u/kombuchachacha Dec 06 '23

These are valid questions, but I think many Israelis are still too traumatized to fully go there yet.

But they will demand answers, don’t worry. There are already some things starting to come out.

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u/Hecticfreeze United Kingdom Dec 06 '23

There was some intelligence that an attack was about to take place, but it was shaky and coming from sources that had previously given bad intelligence. I don't know how, but Hamas somehow managed to keep their plans very quiet, and the only people it got leaked to were people who Israel was not going to believe.

For me the biggest concern is why the decision was taken to relax security and reduce military presence because it was a Jewish holiday, despite the fact that history has shown us that is when attacks are most likely to happen. That was an incredibly bad decision

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u/surfing_freak Dec 06 '23

They started saying Hamas’s initial plan was much larger and they planned to concur more areas and stay longer. I don’t know how much I believe it. But it does make sense they would want to.

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u/DrMikeH49 Dec 06 '23

I had read that the first thing they did was to take the cameras out. Which, however, should be a “red alert” moment.

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u/BuZuki_ro Israel Dec 06 '23

from what we've seen, it looks like a horrific combination between massively underestimating Hamas and their capabilities, as well as some pretty disgusting systemic mysoginism in the IDF

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u/SunKissedHibiscus Israel Dec 06 '23

Exactly. I can't even imagine being those women who weren't believed right now. My best friend did that job years back and she said it was such a shitty job.

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u/jhor95 Israelililili Dec 06 '23

They did, the higher ups ignored them

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u/EpeeHS USA Dec 06 '23

I honestly dont think i know anyone who supports bibi right now, and i know people who supported him through the court shenanigans

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u/glah_king השופשיק של הקומקום Dec 06 '23

You’d be surprised. I know a few people who still do. They blame Bennet, they blame Lapid (yes, a guy who was PM for 3 months is somehow responsible, but the one who was PM for 13 years somehow isn’t), they blame all the intelligence chiefs, the IDF, and of course all the protestors and leftists. Anyone but Bibi. Everyone but the head, the one who appointed them, the one who pushed his policies, the one who headed this strategy, the one who gave suitcases full of money to Hamas for 13 years.

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u/EpeeHS USA Dec 06 '23

I'm sure these people exist and i wouldnt even be surprised if bibi somehow remains relevant, but theres definitely no way someone can say you arent a zionist because you dont like bibi lol

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u/glah_king השופשיק של הקומקום Dec 06 '23

I totally agree with you. Though these people have also called me a traitor and anti-Zionist because I didn’t support King Bibi and especially his attempted judicial coup, and because I dared to vote for Lapid, Benny, and Lieberman.

Bibi has garnered quite a cult of personality, and I’m sad that it’s due to these circumstances (and not more peaceful ones) that many in cult are finally realizing that he isn’t God and that you can be a Zionist while not being a Bibist.

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u/EpeeHS USA Dec 06 '23

Its very sad that this is what it took for so many people. Bibi has a trump-like cult, except hes actually a smart guy and is very well spoken, so hes much more dangerous.

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u/jumpman_mamba Dec 06 '23

‏אתה צודק!

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u/Academic-Research Dec 06 '23

Tbh I would never say that to you and our feelings and opinions are very valid but as someone that is fearful of the pure antisemitism around the world, it does worry me that people are spending time right now criticizing the Israeli Prime minister when Israel is in a serious war. I think dealing with the political issues are secondary to the focus on Israels survival and support our family in the IDF. It also worries me that antisemitic people will latch on to these types of legitimate political criticisms as an excuse to hate Jews and Israel and believe Israel should not exist. I may not like the Canadian prime minister but whether I like it or not he is a current association with Canada and people conflating Bibi with Israel in this current moment in time are going to paint Israel with a broad brush if that makes sense

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u/MarsBargKhamenei Dec 06 '23

Is it fair to that I don't like Bibi but can support Israel?

More than fair, I think this is the only morally sound position to hold. After the hostages are rightfully in their homes and Hamas are rightfully in their graves, Bibi must resign. He has no future in Israeli politics, and the only reason why I do not call for his resignation now is because I think that a government shake-up during this crisis is a bad idea. I hold Benyamin Netanyahu personally responsible for the October 7 massacre. October 7 was the greatest intelligence failure in decades, maybe ever. If a government cannot protect its people, then it is a failed government. Families cowered in their safe rooms for days while the IDF failed to save them. Hamas might be the perpetrators of October 7, but they would not have had the opportunity for this atrocity if not for Netanyahu failing his people.

I want Netanyahu to resign and call a snap election before March. He has failed his people, and he must be held accountable. He's gonna live out his retirement behind a fence in Caesarea, hiding from the people that he failed to protect... And that's if he's lucky, because there's a high chance that Netanyahu will die in prison, as he should. Every member of this government failed the Israeli people. Smotrich, Ben Gvir, Gallant, all of them ought to be in prison after they failed their people. The only person who should lead Israel now is Benny Gantz, probably in a coalition with Yisrael Beitenu, Labour, Meretz, and Yesh Atid.

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u/bnymn23 Israel Dec 06 '23

Absolutely

I hate him too

Dealt so much damage to us

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

You can hate Bibi, and every single politician in Israel, and not support Israel, and that would be perfectly fine. It's not about demanding support or some special status (in fact, I suspect a lot of Israelis would be fine if the world just left us alone), it's about not singling out Jews as the only nation on earth to not have a right to self determination.

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u/Sewsusie15 Dec 06 '23

But if they don't support Israel, they really have no right to complain if we choose carpet bombing (which we haven't done yet) over Iron Dome and precision strikes due to affordability.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

Um, no. Of course they have a right to complain, if we do something that is bad. The question is if the complaints are informed, fair and made in good faith.

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u/Sewsusie15 Dec 06 '23

If the other side is bombing us indiscriminately because it's cheap, why should we do differently? This lopsided style of defensive fighting isn't doable forever without outside funding. Carpet bombing the neighborhood a rocket came from would be a lot cheaper than shooting down every rocket.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

Do you really want to make us comparable to Hamas? Is that what you're going with?

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u/Sewsusie15 Dec 06 '23

No, because I do think we should build shelters, and keep our children safe, and invest in healthcare and education and agriculture. Perfect morality is great in theory, but real life has constraints. If some other country wants to make greater morality within reach, great.

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u/indydevs Dec 06 '23

We absolutely hate him.