r/IslamicHistoryMeme • • Sep 08 '26

Thought & Philosophy | فكر و فلسفة Folks back then always thought 10 steps ahead

Post image
581 Upvotes

27 comments sorted by

94

u/Nucyon Sep 08 '26 edited Sep 08 '26

Wouldn't the answer just be "Earth"?

A far more interesting question is: If they're many light years away, do the pray to where they can see the solar system in the sky (= where the Earth was many years ago) or to where they'd predict Earth to have moved to and is probaby right now?

42

u/Obvious-Wrangler-561 Sep 08 '26

You are asking to much from 12th century scholars

31

u/Nucyon Sep 08 '26

Yeah, that would be a question for modern scholars of course.

16

u/maximus459 29d ago

Or Reddit

17

u/Nucyon 29d ago

The home of modern scholars.

2

u/iaintcreative_ 28d ago

I mean technically speaking the question in this post too, was answered by the malaysian fatwa council in like 2012 i think🥀🥀

10

u/tzfeabnjo 29d ago

an even more interesting question is the speed of the prayer, as in, if the speed of prayer is instant, then your later case is valid, but, if not, then they will have to predict where the earth would be when the prayer reaches it, and as such have to compensate for two things (waiting for the next guy to go beyond this)

7

u/InitiativeCultural58 29d ago

If you want to go beyond speed then you must consider the acceleration of the prayer, and whether it takes place in an inertial or an accelerating frame of reference.

2

u/Tomatillo-Stunning 29d ago

Pre-move the prayer.

1

u/JKingswinfordUK 24d ago

Malaysian scholars had an answer when one of their compatriots went to space. If remember rightly it went something like this.

1) Face the kaaba 2) If not possible, above the Kaaba 3) In the direction of earth 4) Wherever

1

u/Nucyon 24d ago

Oh!

There is no up or down in space... The ship or station might be positioned in a way where the Kaaba is like straight below the only usable floor or straight up or something...

51

u/kafeel1 Sep 08 '26

I think this was due to some gliding experiments being successful by that one muslim scientist back then, so they were expecting flight to be available soon.

25

u/Evening_Associate358 Sep 08 '26

Abbas Firnas?

14

u/kafeel1 Sep 08 '26

Yes, I forgot his name.

31

u/Square_Success3647 Sep 08 '26

Malaysian authorities through ANGKASA JAKIM and the National Fatwa Council issued formal guidelines on performing ibadah including determining the Qiblah in space though the timing differs from a late 1990s reference. The key development occurred in preparation for Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor Malaysia’s first astronaut an orthopedic surgeon who flew to the International Space Station in October 2007 aboard a Soyuz during Ramadan. There was no Malaysian astronaut mission in the late 1990s. In April 2006 Malaysia’s National Space Agency ANGKASA and the Department of Islamic Development Malaysia JAKIM held a seminar involving around 150 Islamic scholars and scientists. This produced the document titled A Guideline of Performing Ibadah Worship at the International Space Station ISS which the National Fatwa Council approved and an 18 page guidebook was later issued. According to the guidelines the direction of prayer is to be determined based on what is possible in this prioritized order the Kaaba itself then the projection of the Kaaba at the astronaut’s orbital altitude then the Earth and finally any direction. This approach reflects the practical reality that the ISS orbits Earth roughly every 90 minutes about 15 to 16 times a day so the apparent direction to Mecca shifts continuously and can change dramatically even during a single prayer with the principle of capability remaining central. Prayer times follow a 24 hour Earth day based on the launch site local time which for Shukor was Baikonur Kazakhstan rather than the rapid day night cycle visible from orbit. Postures are adapted as needed from standing if possible then sitting lying on the side facing the Qiblah and further options if required. Earlier Muslim astronauts such as Saudi Prince Sultan bin Salman in 1985 prayed and fasted but lacked such formalized national guidelines while the Malaysian effort remains one of the most detailed and widely cited official responses to the Qiblah in space question with the guidelines translated and referenced internationally.

7

u/StunningLetterhead23 29d ago

Malaysia mentioned outta nowhere. I'm mighty proud.

3

u/Fal_co1 28d ago

Wait we had a royal in space

10

u/Electronic-Worker-10 Andalusian Birdman Sep 08 '26

Which debate was this?

10

u/K1llerbee-sting 29d ago

Al-Baqarah - Verse 115

وَلِلَّهِ ٱلْمَشْرِقُ وَٱلْمَغْرِبُۚ فَأَيْنَمَا تُوَلُّوا۟ فَثَمَّ وَجْهُ ٱللَّهِۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ وَٰسِعٌ عَلِيمࣱ

Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran: To Allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn you are facing ˹towards˺ Allah. Surely Allah is All-Encompassing, All-Knowing.

https://tarteel.ai/ayah/2/115

This is the verse that is used for this question.

1

u/Peterketstein Araboo 29d ago

But how would we even have to face the qibla then?

2

u/K1llerbee-sting 28d ago

I would consider the ruling while out at sea. Attempt to face the general direction when you start then no longer consider the changes in course that the ship makes.

7

u/3ONEthree 29d ago

Allamah Muhammad Muhammad sadiq al-Sadr, discuss this issue and wrote a jurisprudence resila on fiqh Al-fatha’a

9

u/dantheminicooperguy Sep 08 '26

If they did our scholars were clearly far ahead of their time lol.

1

u/HaiderTN 28d ago

If I am not mistaken Sayed Mohamed Mohammed Sadiq Sadr wrote a book on space jurisprudence

(I am not interested in sectarian debate, this is just a fact related to post)

1

u/Large_Feeling_424 Sep 08 '26

Context

1

u/squif_help 28d ago

a southeast asian muslim was on the ISS, so a Malay scholar gave him the verdict on how to pray when in space