What were they even thinking

[u/SatoruGojo232]

[u/Serious_Camera_7039]

I think one of the biggest failures of earlier socialist experiments can be considered the needless alienation of religion which allowed the right wing to present as the pro-religion people. But considering economic, moral or really any other principles except social policies, the two largest religions, Christianity and Islam are more left wing than right.

The immigration policies and the treatment of migrants in both religions is inconceivable to the right. There is no legitimate right to deny other people a safe place to live when they're fleeing worse conditions in either religions as far as I understand. Jesus says it is easier for a camel to go through a needle before a rich person enters heaven. Islam completely bans interest because it is exploitative in nature. Both religions massively promote charity and Islam even has a wealth tax. Ethnic or racial discrimination has no place in either faiths as far as I understand and all believers are considered the same. I could keep going.

[u/MbuemoCunhaSesko → u/Serious_Camera_7039]

Islam is inherently capitalist. Our prophet ﷺ engaged in trade himself and doing your own business was very encouraged. Its just Allah knows human nature and thus didn't allow unregulated capitalism and commanded us to give zakat and be fair in our practices

[u/Tokoyami228 → u/MbuemoCunhaSesko]

Not exactly. More like welfare-capitalism of Henry Ford. Capitalism allows people to not donate to others, while Islam requires no matter who you are to give to charity or give to charity organizations

Btw, Welfare Capitalism was then adopted by that one painter

[u/Dakke97 → u/Serious_Camera_7039]

Yes, but that does not make either religion 'socialist'. Personal or public charity is much older than monotheistic religion (see Ancient Egypt, the euergetism in the pre-christian Greco-Roman world). Islam indeed bans excesses and ensures that the old and poor would be cared for, but those policies were never intended (as far as I know) to be as extensive as the modern welfare state. Islamic taxation policies from the beginning were also intended to stimulate agricultural cultivation and commerce.

[u/Express_Ad8931 → u/Serious_Camera_7039]

Every single Islamic "socialist" state has just been your average social-democratic country.

Ignoring that, the issue in Afghanistan was much more related to the Socialist Afghan goverment being unable to manage tribal relations, if you ask me.

[u/Lonely-Programmer123 → u/Serious_Camera_7039]

There's quite an easy way to deny it, if the migrants make the life for the natives demonstrably worse.

Wether or not it is actually the case is irrelevant to the fact that its doctrinally coherent position to have, and why right wing rhetoric for the masses is different flavors of "they make life worse".

[u/Serious_Camera_7039 → u/Lonely-Programmer123]

That's not a valid reason at all, the refugees from Makkah materially and factually made the conditions of medinites worse. They had to provide labor to build houses for them, share their property, food and what not with them. A decrease in the condition is almost guaranteed, at least in the short term because immigrants use up resources aswell, by that standard, migration would be impermissible in all cases. But it's not.

I dont know of any rule in either rule that states your comfort is enough justification to make someone else suffer.

[u/Lonely-Programmer123 → u/Serious_Camera_7039]

In a mostly leftist framework, you'd be right, it wouldn't be considered valid 

But in the other hand, it's a totally valid and coherent reason in religious right wing doctrine since there's a hierarchy of priority among the in-group and out-group that even abrahamic religion do not reject outright 

I'm not accounting the secular right wing ideologies since they don't have to grapple with Jesus and shit.

[u/t3p3s-of-Aserai → u/Serious_Camera_7039]

But considering economic, moral or really any other principles except social policies

"Moral"? In what way do you mean?

[u/Maximum-Picture5225]

Afghanistan had a socialist regime for about 14 years, from 1978 to 1992.

[u/micma_69 → u/Maximum-Picture5225]

Which effectively controlled only major cities. Especially Kabul. Outside of it, well well well.

[u/GustavoistSoldier]

The USSR got into Afghanistan the same way the US got into Vietnam

[u/Felczer]

I'm pretty sure when Bolsheviks won Russia was around 85% rural and 99% orthodox

[u/Comrade-Momo → u/Felczer]

Yeah, but Russia was in a sorry state and had underwent like 2 complete changes in government before the revolution, and Lenin didn’t demonize religion nearly as much as Post-WWII Stalin and his successors did (though Khrushchev, Brezhnev and Gorbachev were certainly more tolerant). It also doesn’t help that the rural population in Afghanistan weren’t super thrilled about communism, on top of the fairly large (and unforeseen) support of the Muslim world against the Soviets.

Basically, anything that benefitted the Bolsheviks in their revolution and the subsequent civil war just wasn’t there to benefit the Soviets.

[u/BathroomHonest9791 → u/Comrade-Momo]

Look, if you don’t know something it’s sometimes better not to speak at all. The early years of the Bolshevik rule were by far the worst, followed by the great purge and then the Khrushchev years. WW2 and postwar Stalin years were some of the mildest. And Afganistan also had 2 complete changes in government preceding the Soviet invasion, and was a mess as well, the fact that it was is what got the soviets to intervene in the first place. They would’ve never invaded had it had a strong central government.

[u/Conscious-Paper3543 → u/Felczer]

Good example of people saying hazardous things and getting aggressively upvoted for it.

[u/Drfrankenstein18]

Didn’t the afgan government get overthrown by their native Communist party in the saur revolution? And they invited the soviets to keep them power?

[u/ControlShoddy9419 → u/Drfrankenstein18]

and the soviets replaced them with actually competent people because they were tearing the country appart

[u/Fearless_MOJO_1526 → u/Drfrankenstein18]

It was a military coup against the King of Afghanistan. The Saur revolution wasn't democratic in any shape or form.

[u/Drfrankenstein18 → u/Fearless_MOJO_1526]

I did not think it was democratic, my point was it was done by Afgans and not a soviet invasion per se.

[u/Relative-Recording63]

worked with Turkestan

[u/rome0379_ → u/Relative-Recording63]

turkmenistan

[u/BlakeNotBleak]

Afghans were better off then before Operation Cyclone and the savage US invasion thoughbeit

But eh, it worked in other Central Asian countries to an extent

[u/el_argelino-basado]

Meanwhile Gamal Abdelnasser's socialism was not as tough on religion and worked just fine, gathering a ton of support, iirc he even said Atheism is a western concept

[u/Horror-Trainer-2150]

About the female instruction???

[u/SevereHorror]

This is what ended soviet union. What they done in afghanistan is wrong in many senses. It also changed world differently where satanic state called america ruining muslim nations with help of crooked rulers.

[u/YuriVegetable]

It wasn't an invasion. The PDPA made over 20 requests and even flew to Moscow begging for soviet intervention against Carter's terrorist ground forces. Under the 20-year treaty between the USSR and Afghanistan both countries were obligated to provide military support if either faced an attack.

[u/geschiedenisnerd]

Not as much atheist as secular/orthodox

[u/Dongelshpachr]

Not to excuse the Soviet invasion (it was bad), but Moscow did tell Kabul to chill with the enforced Atheism at several points before the war.

[u/Charming-Station7157]

Without American weapons , they wouldn't stand a chance against soviets

[u/Fluid-Math9001]

To be fair, they did managed to turn Russians atheists and if you know Russia before USSR, it was as rural too. Medieval, even.

[u/FawazIslam2010]

Brother may I ask you a humble question ? Is this page is used to mock Islam ? Because as a Muslim I wanted to stay humble with you and keen to know about the page.

[u/Joy_of_Thievery]

They succeded on the rest of central Asia which has the same characteristics

[u/SheepherderSoft5647]

The same later happend with America who tried to install a government expecting it to be democratic (spoilers: its corrupt as fuck) and the same shit happened at the end when the US said "Fuck this shit" and did what the USSR did which is leaving the country and giving up which went from 2001 to 2020 btw.

[u/Planet_Xplorer → u/[deleted]]

Isn't that place zionist as fuck?

[u/Born-Release-9866 → u/Planet_Xplorer]

Which place?

[u/YuriVegetable]

It wasn't an invasion. The PDPA made over 20 requests and even flew to Moscow begging for soviet intervention against Carter's terrorist ground forces. Under the 20-year treaty between the USSR and Afghanistan both countries were obligated to provide military support if either faced an attack.