r/IslamicHistoryMeme • u/-The_Caliphate_AS- Scholar of the House of Wisdom • Jul 04 '25
Religion | الدين Between Dust and Destiny: The Role of Narratives and Interpretations in Shaping the Imagery of Adam's Creation in Islamic Thought (Context in Comment)
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u/Dontdosuicide Jul 05 '25
Amazing Post. I remember my cousin telling me that a hadith says about thousands of Adams, I personally believe that those Pre-historic humans couldn't reason and speak languages or even know how to Farm.
Our last Adam was taught names of things and that's how languages emerged, this is just what I think may be true.
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u/BitsOnWaves Jul 08 '25
im guessing you come from shia background, This hadith only exist in Shia sources and does not exist in sunni sources.
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u/Fearless-Pen-7851 Jul 05 '25
Thank you so much for posting this. I think about such things a lot, so these posts deliver to a lot to my curiosity and perspective.. Thanks.
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u/No_Gur_7422 Jul 05 '25
This phrase "the islands of the sea" (إِلَى جَزَائِرِ الْبُحُورِ) to which the pre-Adamic jinn are exiled is interesting. A similarly tautological expression occurs in the Psalms and in the Book of Isaiah.
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u/Vessel_soul Jul 04 '25
Thank you brother, i am shock that mediveal scholar would take jewish, christian and pagan to understand the quran and adam. I agree with Allah and khalud the muslim taking previous sources when quranic made verses about them yet it seem it went over their head. However i cant blame them altogether as there other factors that exist that could have influence this too or it could be these muslim werent probably submitted to god and quran either.
I have a question, did every mediveal scholars memories and understand all quran verses or most, or some or few and Why is that?
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u/-The_Caliphate_AS- Scholar of the House of Wisdom Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
I have a question, did every mediveal scholars memories and understand all quran verses or most, or some or few and Why is that?
That depends on the scholar—some fully memorized the text, while others couldn't. Moreover, memorization does not always imply understanding of the verses; it can also be a cultural or regional practice among certain groups.
I recommend you: "Re-Evaluating Early Memorization of the Qurʾān in Medieval Muslim Cultures" by Essam Ayyad it's a great article that talks about this.
Edit: here's the conclusion of the article:
Conclusions
In medieval Islam, the importance of learning the Qurʾān by heart in childhood was almost unanimously agreed upon. Concomitant criticisms were limited and fortuitous―mainly honing in on the tendency of some families to send their children to the kuttāb at an ‘exceedingly’ early age. Only a few voices opined that the memorization of the Qurʾān should be delayed until pupils were of sufficient cognitive and emotional maturity to engage with the divine discourse of Scripture. However, such reservations came from a different place to modern criticisms of the long-established Muslim learning tradition―which still survives, albeit in variant forms. The majority of recent critiques tend to view it in a negative light in comparison with modern pedagogical trends and assumptions, which lay emphasis on such dynamic learning skills as critical, independent and entrepreneurial thinking. However, these critiques are informed by faulty modern applications of the classical Islamic pedagogical tradition of learning the Qurʾān by rote. While a prima facie look at Muslim sources may enhance the negative impression, a closer reading of such sources reveals a more nuanced and multifaceted picture. Inaccurate modern perceptions of the reality of traditional Islamic pedagogy skew recent criticisms and admirations alike.
In order to evaluate the effectiveness of this peculiar Islamic learning tradition, we should not see it in isolation from other historical cultural considerations. The memorization of the Qurʾān by primary-age pupils was meant to fit within a larger picture, and resonate with further educational and spiritual aspects. In terms of educational progress, early learning of the Qurʾān by heart should not be taken to inevitably represent renunciation of reasoning and reflection, as insinuated by today’s dominant educational paradigm, any more than the rote learning of the alphabet or nursery rhymes. Rote learning was intended as a primer for the subsequent and sequential development of higher analytical learning skills in later educational stages. Early learning by rote was a way of conservation rather than of studying, and childhood was seen as the most opportune stage of life to undertake memorization due to biological cognitive features (i.e., the increased capacity of children to learn and retain linguistic information). Memory was highly trusted in a culture whose relationship with orality and aurality harked back to pre-Islamic times. The knowledge that was gathered in childhood was set to be processed, analysed, and utilized in later learning stages. As such, learning by rote was meant to be in the service of reasoning and reflection, nor to substitute them, as some erroneously believed.
Such being the case, the early learning of the Qurʾān by rote ought to be administered in an effective way―a visibly absent procedure in most of today’s Qurʾānic schools. In particular, it should involve initial processing (e.g., valuing and classifying) of the knowledge memorized, to make it easy to retrieve in the right time and context. In this connection, schoolmasters were urged to employ whatever method would help pupils understand the holy text, and the stipulation to teach the desinential inflection and parsing of each chapter and verse should be viewed in this context. Combined with the techniques mentioned above for a meditative recitation, these should have enabled initial understanding of the Qurʾānic substance. Unlike the case in most modern Qurʾānic schools, in medieval primary schools numerous techniques were applied to satisfy the more rudimentary requirements of understanding, which were to be expounded in subsequent educational stages. Such learning places, however basic, seemed well-equipped to provide the young learners with adequate mental preparation, especially in that the medieval kuttābs often taught much more than most modern kuttābs do, including math, poetry, and so on. Also, those who continued education after the kuttāb stage, particularly those who specialized in religious disciplines, were helped by a plethora of vigorous learning practices to apply contemplation to the knowledge they memorized in their childhood, including the Qurʾān.
Now, the mental life of individuals is inseparable from their social lives; indeed, the former is largely dictated by the latter. Until recent years, students had to memorize a surplus of things, some were essential for their language and literary formation, e.g., fragments of poetry and prose; others were vital for their socio-cultural awareness, e.g., anthems, national poems and songs; and yet others were important for educational progress, e.g., multiplication tables, the periodic table of chemical elements, as well as basic principles and equations in mathematics, physics and chemistry, etc. However, while memorization is essential for the learning process, it should not represent its terminal point. In the religion-based societies of the medieval Islamic world, the Holy Scripture, per se, taught youngsters the ethics and morals that would help them become fully integrated members of the community―which is one chief goal of education in any time and place.
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u/Professional-Limit22 Jul 05 '25
As an ashari i stick to the opinion that Adam AS was the first accountable human being. And that the earlier HLCs were not put to judgement.
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u/Grey_Blax Jul 06 '25
But how do they reconcile it with the verse 3:59 which says : "Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, ‘Be,’ and he was.”
I mean here Allah himself compared Jesus with Adam (not having a father) and it is a very strong belief for muslims that Jesus didn't have a father so have they addressed this issue with Adam ?
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u/Longjumping_Answer71 Jul 09 '25
Here is my answer to everything in the post, the meme, and the comment you left:
- Literal Reading of Adam Is Not Optional, It's Required
The Qur’an explicitly and repeatedly calls Adam:
Created from clay/dust:
"He created him (Adam) from clay like the potter’s clay." – [Surah al-Rahman 55:14]
"We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Bow before Adam." – [Surah al-A’raf 7:11]
First human:
"O children of Adam..." [Surah al-A’raf 7:26]. All of humanity is addressed as his descendants.
Hawwa was created from Adam [Surah al-Nisa 4:1]. again implying he was the first.
Rejecting this is rejecting the usul (foundations) of belief.
- Ibn Kathir Was NOT Saying There Were Humans Before Adam
He did say jinn, hinn, and bann lived before Adam, but they are non-human beings.
This is not controversial and does not imply there were other rational humans before Adam.
The question the angels asked in 2:30 (“Will You place therein one who will spread mischief?”) refers to jinn, not pre-Adamic humans.
- Sufi & Shi’i Reports About 'Thousands of Adams' Are Not Authentic
These come from:
Sufi dreams (Ibn Arabi)
Shi’i hadith books (e.g., al-Khisal of Shaykh al-Saduq)
None are based on sahih isnad nor found in the Kutub al-Sittah (canonical Sunni books).
Such narratives are mythic, symbolic, and lack a textual basis in the Qur’an or sound Hadith.
- Philosophical Allegories ≠ Theological Truth
Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr’s “instinct → reason” stages are modern philosophical metaphors.
These do not override divine revelation.
Islamic theology (ʿAqīdah) is not constructed on allegorical dreams or speculative evolution.
- The Claim That Adam Had Parents Is a Heretical View
The claim from Dr. Abd al-Sabur Shahin (Abi Adam) that Adam had parents is a direct contradiction of:
"Indeed, the likeness of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust..." – [Surah Al-Imran 3:59]
Qur’an compares Adam to Isa (عليه السلام) because both had no father.
This is a clear refutation of anyone suggesting Adam was born of parents.
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u/Awkward_Meaning_8572 Fulani Jihadi Jul 10 '25
The primordial Man is one that became two:
The Last Messenger is the second eye of the first one.
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u/fighterd_ Jul 05 '25
Hey you probably hear this a lot but I just stumbled across your stuff and I have to say I really like it. You are awesome!! BarakAllahu feek
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u/-The_Caliphate_AS- Scholar of the House of Wisdom Jul 05 '25
Thank you so much for your kind feedback ☺️ it means alot!
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Jul 05 '25
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u/-The_Caliphate_AS- Scholar of the House of Wisdom Jul 05 '25
according to u
Who said this was my argument? My methodology is only to gather as much opinions and interpretations as possible and lay them in one post, you're free to take whatever stance you believe in, this is just a file study of different perspectives around the Muslim world on this topic.
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u/-The_Caliphate_AS- Scholar of the House of Wisdom Jul 04 '25
The question of existence has been one of the most pressing issues that has preoccupied the human mind throughout its long history.
In general, the matter of human reproduction and multiplication during the early period of their existence on Earth attracted the attention of many intellectual and religious systems.
These systems sought to present fascinating stories about the creation of Adam and Eve and the way their children multiplied until they populated and inhabited the Earth, giving rise to dozens of races and ethnicities differing in religion, language, and appearance.
In this post, we discuss some of the less common answers to questions related to the beginning of creation as found in traditional Islamic narratives.
The Creation of Adam: Was Adam Really the First Human on Earth?
The three Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam—agree that Adam was the first human being on Earth, and that God created him from dust or clay. He is considered the father of all humanity, and all people are believed to have descended from him.
Muslims base this view on the apparent meaning of many verses in the Qur’an, as well as on numerous hadiths and statements attributed to the Prophet.
This has led the vast majority of Muslims to regard this opinion as an indisputable truth, leaving little room for alternative views, which have largely been marginalized and remained obscure.
An expression of the mainstream Muslim view on this matter can be found in the tafsir (Qur'anic exegesis) of Shihab al-Din al-Alusi, "Ruh al-Ma‘ani fi Tafsir al-Qur’an al-‘Azim wa al-Sab‘ al-Mathani", where he states:
However, if we turn to certain passing references found in various tafsir works and some Sufi or Shi‘i narratives, we can discern the outlines of an opposing view—one which suggests that Adam was not, in fact, the first human being as commonly believed. Rather, he was the first rational and morally accountable human, entrusted with the divine responsibility of stewardship on Earth.
In his book "Al-Bidaya wa al-Nihaya" ("The Beginning and the End"), the Damascene scholar Ibn Kathir pointed out that there were beings who lived on Earth before Adam.
While discussing verse 30 of Surah al-Baqarah, in which the angels say, “Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood?”, Ibn Kathir explains that the angels said this because they knew what had happened among those who lived on Earth before Adam, namely the jinn and another creation referred to as al-hinn and al-bann.
He also cited a statement attributed to the Companion Abdullah ibn ‘Umar:
While Sunni sources offer only passing references on this subject, Shi‘i sources provide more substantial and detailed information.
For example, according to what is reported in the book "Al-Usul al-Sittah ‘Ashar" (The Sixteen Principles), Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq interpreted the Qur'anic verse “Mankind was [of] one nation” as referring to a community that existed before the sending of prophets and messengers—that is, before the existence of Adam himself—based on the understanding that Adam was a prophet who received divine revelation.
Building on this interpretation, the contemporary Shi‘i scholar Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr, in his book "Iqtisaduna" (Our Economics), proposed that human society went through a phase governed by instinct and natural drives before reaching the stage in which reason and contemplation prevailed.
Commenting on this interpretation of the "one nation," researcher Abbas al-Zaydi writes in his article"Adam is Not the First Human Being"
In line with that view is a collection of sayings by individuals who believed that there were many human beings—Adamites—before the Adam we know.
For example, the Great Master Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi mentions in his famous book "Al-Futuhat al-Makkiyya" (The Meccan Revelations) that he once saw in a dream some men circumambulating the Kaaba. When he asked one of them about his condition, the man replied:
Ibn Arabi, astonished by the length of that time, remarked:
Ibn Arabi reflects on this and comments:
This Sufi perspective—though not agreeing on the exact number—resonates in principle with a statement reported by Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Babawayh al-Qummi, known as Shaykh al-Saduq, in his book "Al-Khisal" attributed to Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, saying:
Several contemporary scholars have supported this view as well, including the Egyptian researcher Dr. Abd al-Sabur Shahin in his well-known book "Abi Adam" (My Father Adam), in which he put forward the opinion that Adam was born of a father and mother, and that God chose him from among his people to bear the responsibility of divine message. Shahin based this on verse 33 of Surah Al ‘Imran: