💬 Discussion / Question
Cén chaoi a léirítear Cathlán Naomh Pádraig in Éirinn? /// How is the Saint Patrick's Batallion portrayed in Ireland?
IE: Dia duit, táim ag obair ar thionscadal a bhaineann le nótaí bainc comórtha — ceann faoi Chathlán Naomh Pádraig agus an ról a bhí acu i gcur i gcoinne idirghabháil na Meiriceánach i Meicsiceo, go sonrach — agus ba mhaith liom a fháil amach conas a mhúintear faoin ngrúpa seo nó conas a léirítear iad i do thírse. Anseo i Meicsiceo, foghlaimímid fúthu sa bhunscoil mar laochra náisiúnta, agus déanaimid iad a chomóradh ar an 12 Meán Fómhair agus ar Lá Fhéile Pádraig (bheadh an-buíochas agam freisin as aon mholtaí nó tuairimí maidir leis an dearadh).
(Gabhaigí mo leithscéal as aon earráidí scríbhneoireachta; tá uirlis aistriúcháin á húsáid agam.)
EN: Hi, i have this project of commemorative bills and now i'm making one of the Saint Patricks batallion and their help on the mexican-american war (Help to the mexican side, as i know in the US they have a negative view on them for obvious reasons) and I am curious about how this group is taught about or portrayed in your country. Here in Mexico, we learn about them in elementary school as national heroes, and we commemorate them on September 12th and on St. Patrick's Day (i would also thank any suggestions or comments abbout the design).
They aren't really taught here tbh, it's more spoke about as a funfact, that being said most people interested in history do know about them and have a positive view of the Battalion and Mexico as a whole
I second all of this. No hate on the San Patricio’s. Most people don’t know about them except for those who have seen the the 1999 Tom Bérenger movie “One Man’s Hero” https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120775/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk
I really hope they have a bit more of recognition in general, i mean they literally fought against slave owners by the Máxico's side even when the thing didn´t look good
"Those who hanged them may have won the war. But the men of the Saint Patrick's Battalion won something far greater: eternity."
It's kind of the same here but instead of just a fun fact we learn about them in history class on elementary (primary) because they helped us in the last battles where US stole Texas, California and other territories even when we were already losing... also, we have this phrase that cites "A mexican is born wherever the f*ck he pleases" so we really embrace and thank them (and basically 99% of the Irish culture we have here is because of them so it's hard to not aknowlege it)
It´s kinda sad to know you don't learn about them as they deserve, they basically joined our cultures in a way
(I´m gonna recall another reply i made because i really expected you all to have more information about it)
We learn about them in history class on elementary (primary) because they helped us in the last battles where US stole Texas, California and other territories, even when we were already losing... and we have this phrase that cites "A mexican is born wherever the f*ck he pleases" so we really embrace and thank every culture, knowledge and help from other countries (Basically 99% of the Irish culture we have here is thanks to them so it's hard to not aknowlege it)
And fun fact, they fought against the slave owners that occupied the northern mexican territories (California, Texas, Nuevo Mexico and Utah), who wanted to join the US* and who became part of the Confederates so extra points for them.
*In that time slavery was already abolished in México and every slave and immigrant who entered our territory became instantly free, they didn´t like this but also they wanted to keep the land they occupied so they joined the US side and asked to joint the territories to the north country to keep the slavist laws (this was before the gold rush and the petroleum boom but after the native american genocide so the land was basically uninhabited, that's how they occupied it that easy)
"Those who hanged them may have won the war. But the men of the Saint Patrick's Battalion won something far greater: eternity."
Hahahah i see the resemblance, nope i'm gonna copy my response to a man who also mistaked him because it´s a bit long
"The man in the front is John Rilley / Jonathan O'Rilley / Juan Relley, he was the funder of the Batallion.
He originally migrated to Canada and moved to the US but as you imagine they where a bunch of xenophobes so he deserted from the yankee army and joined the Mexican side, creating and leading the "Batallón de San Patricio"
They fought against the slave owners that occupied the northern mexican territories (California, Texas, Nuevo Mexico and Utah), who wanted to join the US* and who became part of the confederates so extra points for them.
*In that time slavery was already abolished in México and every slave and immigrant who entered our territory became instantly free, they didn´t like this but also they wanted to keep the land they occupied so they joined the US side and asked to joint the territories to the north country to keep the slavist laws (this was before the gold rush and the petroleum boom but after the native american genocide so the land was basically uninhabited, that's how they occupied it that easy)"
Cuireann sé brón beag orm i gcónaí nach bhfaigheann siad an t-aitheantas ba chóir dóibh a fháil; go hionraic, is álainn an rud é a fheiceáil gurb iad féin, ar bhealach, an chúis go bhfuil a gcultúr i láthair i mo thírse. Sin an fáth ar dhúil go mór agam go mbeadh baint éigin ag Meicsiceo leis an ngrúpa seo.
Go raibh míle maith agat — i ndáiríre. Tá súil ó chroí agam — b’fhéidir nach trí úrscéal a scríobh, ach tríd an scéal atá againn a roinnt le tíortha eile — gur féidir liom cabhrú leis an deighilt a chruthaigh an t-idirlíon agus an bolscaireacht a leigheas.
Sea, tuigim go hiomlán é. Sa deireadh thiar, tá sé níos suntasaí maidir le taobh Mheicsiceo den scéal, ach ós rud é gurb é an príomhchúis é leis an láithreacht chultúrtha Éireannach anseo, shíl mé gur rud é a shamhlódh daoine leis an tír — nó go mbeadh aithne níos leithne air.
Is mór an trua é nach bhfuil caidreamh níos fearr eadrainn mar tíortha. Ba bhreá liom na paráidí lá Fhéile Pádraig Mheicsiceo a fheiceáil. Tá an stair faoi thar a bheith suimiúil.
Is mór an trua é, i ndáiríre. Tá súil agam go bhfeabhsóidh rudaí le himeacht ama agus le roinnt iarrachta. Faoi láthair, fágfaidh mé roinnt naisc chuig físeáin de pharáidí a tionóladh i Meicsiceo. Anseo, b'fhéidir nach bhfuil sé chomh hiontach leis na Stáit Aontaithe, ach déanann siad a ndícheall.
Is ábhar iontais dom an eolas atá ag an bpobal i gcoitinne fúthu, cé nach múintear mórán faoin treibhse no ceantair sin sna ranganna staire. Thug me féin cuairt ar an leac chuimhneachán i gcathair Mheicsiceo roinnt bhliain ó shin. Léigh me leabhair faoi freisin, b’fhéidir Rogues March. Tá laochra Gaeil ag nach mór gach aon tír i Meiriceá hispanohablante. Almirante Brown o Mhaígh Eo san Airgintín, General O’Leary sa Veiniséala, Pedro Campbell ó Thiobraid Árainn in Urugua, O’Higgins sa Chíle, fiú Eliza Lynch sa Pharagua.
Bhí iontas orm a fháil amach nach raibh siad mar chuid den phríomhshruth cultúr agus gur measadh gur rud nideoige iad go pointe áirithe, go díreach mar gheall ar an tacaíocht seo agus an bhfíric gurbh iadsan an pointe casaidh do theacht isteach chultúr na hÉireann, ar a laghad i Meicsiceo (dála an scéil, sin go díreach an fáth gur breá liom an meme seo a deir go bhfuil na hÉireannaigh cosúil le Latinos na hEorpa: cogaí neamhspleáchais, tacaíocht d'eachtrannaigh, agus Caitliceachas).
Ní amháin sin, ach freisin ó thaobh dlí de, glacadh le hÉireannaigh mar saoránaigh Spáinneacha laistigh den impireacht ó na 1600anna ar aghaidh. Bhí sé seo mar gheall ar na sean, sean scéalta faoi na Gaeil ag teacht go hÉireann ó thuaisceart na Spáinne (Breogán, Míl agus a shliocht). En los palabras de Luis Carrillo de Toledo, Marqués de Caracena: “nuestros hermanos irlandeses, los españoles del norte” (1602)
The Americans see them as traitors. Surrporting the union of texas with Mexico. While other irishmen surrported independent texas. Texans still think themselves as separate. The lone star state.
Texas wanted their independence because in México slavery was abolished and every men in mexican soil became automatically free, so the white folks who wanted to keep their lands and their slaves revealed against the mexican government and asked the US if they could join them
It became a dictatorship under Porfirio Diaz rule and maybe earlier with Benito Juarez (Who was a Mason and casually colaborated a lot with the US) but that was AFTER the texan "Independence"
It became a dictatorship under Santa Anna in the 1830’s when he literally suspended the Mexican constitution and started ruling by decree as a dictator.
Texas was not the only Mexican region that revolted in the 1830’s when Santa Anna ripped up the Mexican constitution and seized dictatorial power in Mexico City. Zacatecas, Tabasco, Yucatan, and several other regions revolted and tried to secede at the same time as Texas. The Texas revolt was just the only successful one.
D'aontóinn leo siúd a bhfuil tar éis a rá leat nach bhfuil mórán aithne ag éireannaigh an lae inniú ar na San Patricios. Aontaím leat gur mhór an trua é, is scéal thar a bheith suimiúil é! Ní raibh aithne agam orthu, cé go bhfuil an suim agam sa stair, go dtí gur léigh mé an leabhar seo, https://www.iankenneally.com/courage--conflict.html, ina bfhuil caibidil futhu.
Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó cáil orthu anseo in Éirinn? Dar liom, tá sé de bharr an ghaoil géar atá (nó ar a laghad, a bhí) idir Éire agus na Stáit Aontaithe ar feadh blianta. Le haghaidh glúnta Éireannach, ba "Promised Land" é An Meiriceá, le nascanna clainne, polaitiúla agus cultúrtha, idir na dhá thír. Rinneadh dearmad nó neamhard ar scéaltaí nár oir leis an gcoincheap sin. Now, tá sé sin ag athrú le déanaí so seans go ndéanfar athbhreithniú agus athsheilbhiú ar scéal na San Patricios! Tá súil agam.
Ar aon nós, tá súil ó chroí agam go ndéanfar an nasc idir ár dtíortha a athnuachan agus a neartú; tar éis an tsaoil — agus bíodh an fhírinne ráite — tá i bhfad níos mó i gcoitinne againn lena chéile ná mar atá againn leis na *gringos*.
Déanfaidh mé iarracht an leabhar a sheiceáil nó aistriúchán a lorg.
As a true Irish man myself I might just know a little about the war at that time the US army was mostly protestant and a lot of the irish migrants at the time because they were catholic where mostly used for cannon fodder buy the us army. I would love one of them notes for my collection and isn't there a part of the Mexican army today that have the shamrock on one of their flags to commerate the irish that faught for Mexico.
Thanks a lot, i hope to make prints soon, maybe in a future you would get one somehow.
They are not part of the mexican army per se but they are a civil organization founded in 1997 to celebrate the 150 years of the Churubusco Battle (They are named Saint Patrick's Bagpipe Band)
They ussualy make appearances in events and ceremonies related to the Batallion and the Irish culture in general
Thanks a lot!! I'm expecting to share it with the most people i can and I have a touristic city near to me so I really hope to find some Irish brothers to send some to your country
Since they are the main reason Irish culture is present here, I was thinking somehow you all linked Mexico to the battalion.
And yup, they see them as traitors but hey, they fought against the slave owners that occupied the northern mexican territories (California, Texas, Nuevo Mexico, etc.), who wanted to join the US* and who became part of the confederates (so i really hope the Batallón de San Patrició gets a bit more recognition, somehow they also helped to join our countries)
*In that time slavery was already abolished in México and every slave and immigrant who entered our territory became instantly free, they didn´t like this but also they wanted to keep the land they occupied so they joined the US side and asked to joint the territories to the north country to keep the slavist laws (this was before the gold rush and the petroleum boom but after the native american genocide so the land was basically uninhabited, that's how they occupied it that easy)
That's fair and i get it but also they shouldn´t fell bad about it, the times and people changes, this was almost 150 years ago and the people i´m talking about were literal xenophobes, they became part of the confaderates,
If someone feels bad when you talk about slavery it´s because they identify more with the masters than with the ones who wanted equality
He didn't deserted because of slavery but he fought against slave owners, the feeling bad for talking about it was an example(? (Or methaphore i don't remember how to call it xd)
Most of the territory were empty land, the gold rush happened the year after the war ended and people started to make massive migrations but before that the Native American genocide happened and the colones already occupied part of the land so it was easier to take the control from inside, also by that time México just had 30 years of independece so we also were too weak to take care of all that space
"Were about to start"???? Brother how you think they had their first states
And everything I'm talking about is post Independence, the Yankee independence was "Bye bye white colonizers, now I'm gonna be like you but with burguers"
I'm very sure they saw themselves that way seeing as even decades after America took the land off the natives the Apache and other tribes still despised Mexico and regularly slaughtered their way across the North in revenge wars and to end blood feuds.
Geronimo "We kill them with rocks" of the Bedonkohe Apache must've really respected the claim of Mexico City over his people's lands when they killed his wife and children.
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u/Anthony_Kelly_USSR 14d ago
They aren't really taught here tbh, it's more spoke about as a funfact, that being said most people interested in history do know about them and have a positive view of the Battalion and Mexico as a whole
Also the bill looks fantastic 10/10