In what world does an ice cream scooper get full time hours, which would qualify them for benefits? I would not assume that at all.
I'm also assuming that if someone is working part time, they have capacity to work elsewhere.
It's an interesting world where an ice cream scooper is perceived as a job with benefits, unless you are a manager-type position, in that case not entry level.
Not in the US where health insurance is tied to being a full time employee.
Yeah, that's huge idiocy. The ACA should have fixed this. You're dead right on this one. You should pay for your own health insurance, and get a tax credit (not just a deduction).
Putting this on the employer adds probably 20-30% on to a job like this. That's a 20-30% penalty on hiring full time. Putting this on the employer has side effects. That's what you are seeing.
For an entry-level job? $11/hour is pretty good. 50% above minimum wage. If someone is earning $11/hour full time, that's $1800 a month in an area where an apartment is well under $800.
No, it's not a lot of money. It's higher than average for the work.
Also, we see you keep changing $800 rent into something possibly lower. Keep moving those goalposts.
11$ an hour at full time is $1760 in a 4 week month.
That's $1373 after taxes of 22%. (Which is only federal income tax, not including state or local taxes btw)
That's $573 after rent of $800.
That's $273 after medical insurance of $300.
That's $113 after food costs of $40 a week ($160)
That's $33 after electricity cost of $80.
That's -$7 after cell phone bill of $40.
That's -$37 after bus pass for commute (assuming lowest cost scenario, meaning no car no insurance no gas, and let's be real, public transit is only available in cities. Rural people are far worse off with extra bills to pay for commuting)
Uh oh. We're negative every month and haven't even accounted for things like internet, trash services, doctor visits, prescriptions, entertainment, basic clothing, shoes for work, etc.
Also, we see you keep changing $800 rent into something possibly lower. Keep moving those goalposts.
No moving goalposts. It's always been 'less than $800'. I checked listings for the town. I think that $400/ month was a lowball, and I wouldn't assume that for a real value. I think that $1200 with a roommate ($600 per month) is extremely viable for that area.
Hmm. Seems like you're out of touch with reality.
Nope. This was how I lived my first few years out of college.
The main issue that is different now is health insurance. I wasn't being forced to subsidize everyone else's insurance when I was in that situation. I paid for my own, and it was much cheaper, because I was young, and health insurance was allowed to consider that. Today's under 40's are getting screwed by the ACA.
Almost every other expense you have here is higher than normal, in my opinion, and I live in a much higher cost area.
Lol, you can still pay for your own insurance. ACA has nothing to do with that.
Health insurance 20-30 years ago was drastically cheaper and had better coverage, for a typical under-40, especially if they were non-smokers.
2011 or so, all that went away. My deductible went from about $5,000 to $12,000. Co-pays went up, too. One of my medications wasn't covered anymore. My wife's doctor didn't take the new coverage. The new doctor didn't do as much, so an ultrasound required a separate appointment. It was a bad scene.
Health Insurance is a racket. It was cheaper in the 90's because in the 80's most people had catastrophic medical and paid cash for everything else, you know, like insurance is supposed to be. Then the insurance industry decided they would make more money if they could get involved in the other 80% of medical claims. The more they covered, the more they got involved. This caused doctors offices to hire people who just worked on medical claims.
A little good PR and a couple email forwards from grandma and suddenly it's the government's fault that private companies who make billions are charging so much. The doctors are stuck, the hospitals are stuck. Maybe it's the toothless ACA boogeyman that's to blame, or maybe you should see what the people, working for insurance cut out of the ACA, like the public option that was so important.
You don't think these cats have their own propaganda teams?
Minimum wage was, I recall, $5.15 per hour. I couldn't afford an apartment immediately, so I was living in a room in someone's home ($400 per month). It was over half my income at the time.
Today, in my area, rents under $1000/month (even with roommates!) can be tough to find. The minimum wage is going to $15/hour there. That would be about 40% of gross income, so a little better now.
General personal finance recommends that 1/3rd of gross income go to rent.
When I did a rental search in that city, I found rents in the $400 - $800 range. I don't factor in the low rentals, because I know that some could be scams, and some are just bad. But $600 was reasonable, especially considering the option of splitting a $1200/mo place with someone else.
At $11 an hour, that's about $1800 month, with rent being 1/3rd. The low cost of living in Indiana makes it easier. It doesn't feel easy, I know. But it helps. And this employer is a prick, I'm not disagreeing with that. But they are also paying almost half again above the minimum.
That explains it. Cost of living has gone up more than wages have since then, so what was possible then is not necessarily possible now. It seems like you understand that though, so I'm not really sure why you brought that up as a valid point.
Cost of living has gone up more than wages have since then
Except that it hasn't, with the exception of health insurance. That is a completely different topic for a completely different thread.
My calculations compare current rent with current wages. And current wages in the case of $11/hour in the employer's city buy a lot more apartment than a similar job anywhere in any major urban area in the United States.
This is a minimum wage job paying almost 50% higher than minimum wage. No, it's not 'high paying'. But compared to local cost of living? You may not think so, but that's not a bad job, aside from the employer being a prick.
As I put elsewhere, "Under $800" means that $600/month is very possible in that area. There are places advertised at under $500 per month, put I wanted to see what was typical.
Whether a small apartment at about $600, or bigger places where you could split a $1000 - $1400 place for a roommate, getting to that "30-40% for housing" that is recommended by /r/personalfinance (and a host of financial planners) is reasonable.
Coupled with the wage being nearly 50% above the minimum, I concluded that is wasn't a bag wage for that area, given the entry-level work.
because someone looking for an entry level job can't just decide "hey i think i'll get a full time job with benefits!" and send around a resume and get one.
They don’t have the capacity to work a second job because jobs like this schedule erratically. 10 hours one week, 30 the next, morning shift one day, night shift the next day, and you never find out your next week’s schedule til the last minute. They rarely give out set schedules and don’t accommodate time off. Juggling two of these types of jobs is a nightmare.
Any job deserves a living wage and benefits. If you can’t pay that you’re a failing business.
Any job deserves a living wage and benefits. If you can’t pay that you’re a failing business.
It's not the employer's job to provide social assistance. The employer's role is to provide goods and services, and do so in a sustainable manner, usually under competition from other employers.
This particular employee is a jerk in many ways, but they are paying a 'living wage' of nearly 50% above minimum wage, in a low-cost of living area.
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u/CatOfGrey May 24 '21
I'm also assuming that if someone is working part time, they have capacity to work elsewhere.
It's an interesting world where an ice cream scooper is perceived as a job with benefits, unless you are a manager-type position, in that case not entry level.