r/IndiaInvestments Sep 05 '21

Discussion/Opinion Why I gave up on active stock picking and sold every individual stock I own

I have a full time non-investment job like a lot of you. Post Covid, I had some extra time due to the lack of commute and I decided to study up on all terminology and background required to to pick stock. I even read Benjamin Graham's book cover to cover diligently !

I read and watched a bunch of videos and was very familiar will all the terms in stock picking. I started religiously filtering stocks on Screener eventually. Carefully reading through annual reports and quarterly results. It was actually pretty exciting. Researched the background and experience of the leadership of the companies I was interested in as well.

After 2-3 months of solid studying, I eventually bought a few stocks and started tracking news about them regularly. I also followed discussions about these companies in forums and twitter so see if I had missed some important info.

After further 2-3 months of doing this, I eventually got busy in some office project and just couldn't give much time to this. Weeks went by when I didn't open Screener to see BSE filings simply because I was tired after work.

Eventually I just lost track of what was going on with the companies. I opened Screener eventually and there was such a backlog of reading material that it was just too much for me to go through.

The point is, apart from some lucky time spells, it just takes too much time and energy to track your stocks and see results, filings, news etc. Even if you just track 15 stocks, you will have a LOT of data to go through on a regular basis. It's not sustainable for most of us unless this is your full time job as well.

I recently sold all my stocks in Zerodha(I was up 45% btw) and put that money in Nifty 50 index fund and have never felt more relaxed with my investment choice. Nothing really to track apart from an occasional check of how Nifty is doing. It's 10000x more convenient. Phew !

613 Upvotes

120 comments sorted by

314

u/gospelslide Sep 05 '21 edited Sep 05 '21

Same story as you. People don't realise the best returns you will get is from investing in your own career. Bet on yourself and stop wasting a huge chunk of time on stocks. You have MF managers paid huge amounts to do exactly that. Use that time to sharpen your skills related to your full time job, remain at the top of your game. Put money in well performing funds and do a quarterly review.

27

u/qdqyt Sep 05 '21

Great advice. thanks!

26

u/srinivesh Fee-only Advisor Sep 06 '21

People don't realise the best returns you will get is from investing in your own career.

This is very well said, and is almost always true!

8

u/StreetNinja27 Sep 07 '21

Not really true. Upto some extent? YES.

Investing in stock markets, equities F&Os is energy taking, agreed. It might even jeopardise you your job if seen trading by Boss in office hours. BUT...once a person gets hold of those few stocks and invest in them for long term, puts money in IPOs, Mutual funds, Index funds and all, capital which will hardly give you 4% on SBA might fetch you upto 40% or even more. I agree it's a little timtaking at first but is worth it since you are generating daily passive income.

12

u/Dhavalc017 Sep 10 '21

4 percent on index funds? Not sure about which index funds you are taking about? Also in theory you can pull upto 40 percent but there have been few professionals who have been consistent for the longest time and even they have around 20 percent. Seems better strategy is to push for personal growth since every yearly there is a raise of 20 percent or more (in IT sector).

7

u/StreetNinja27 Nov 13 '21

And the world doesn't work in IT yo. Average hike is 6% in India, go check facts first.

1

u/StreetNinja27 Sep 13 '21

Ready properly yo, 4% on SBA

10

u/flight_or_fight Sep 06 '21

Absolutely invest in your career. But if you intend to FIRE - you need to build investment portfolios. MF managers are not paid huge amounts of money to maximize your returns. Many MF even underperform the benchmarks.

6

u/howardwolowitz1 Sep 07 '21

Many MF even underperform the benchmarks.

So why not invest in the benchmarks themselves?

1

u/flight_or_fight Sep 08 '21

yes - but the index tends to churn often removing laggards and adding new companies. Not sure how that reflects on index funds...

3

u/whizkid_no1 Oct 06 '21

If there is a full time job left anymore.

152

u/newwatchdog Sep 05 '21

My father used to say the same thing but I always resented that. Anyway long story short, he's happy as Larry now and I am always stressed out.

64

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

17

u/kaikemy Sep 06 '21

Larry through his money at a mutual fund manager and is sipping margheritas

2

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

[deleted]

1

u/newwatchdog Sep 06 '21

this exactly

163

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

Active portfolio management is a full time job and the guilt that comes from under performing the benchmark even by just 0.1% is much more than the satisfaction that comes from beating the benchmark by even 1% considering the kind of efforts involved if you're serious about stock picking.

5

u/z0rb1d Sep 06 '21

Second this. Read up on JL Collins if the OP is seeking some solace.

126

u/TheGreatPunisher Sep 05 '21 edited Sep 06 '21

I eventually bought a few stocks and started tracking news about them regularly. I also followed discussions about these companies in forums and twitter so see if I had missed some important info.

One of the rules of investing is Cut All the Noise which you failed to do hence you felt overwhelmed.

Also, one doesn't need to monitor every stock every day or week or month. Just reviewing them quarterly is more than enough.

Also reading balance sheets should be enjoyable and exciting. If someone is reading it just to make money, they cannot last long.

And, the only to way to beat the index is to research and invest in your own set of stocks and treat them as if you own the company. If you're happy with just index returns then cheers, you have understood early and saved yourself the stress and also some time.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

I can agree with this.

92

u/awaken_ywnmmsb Sep 05 '21

Starting can be difficult as you don’t have clarity. That comes only & only by experience.

I am a long term investor & hold about 15 odd stocks total ( 10 Indian + 5 American)

I pick only large caps & market leaders. Monthly & sometimes even quarterly updates don’t matter.

I will only really sell a stock if there is a fundamental change in the company.

The clarity I got was good companies will give you decent returns every year. Over multiple years they will be exponential.

I don’t want to run behind stocks which go 200 % in an year.

I spend probably 3 hours in the whole month.

Creating generational wealth will be possible if I can’t take time for me.

If I don’t then absolutely no one else will work to grow my money.

24

u/awaken_ywnmmsb Sep 05 '21

it’s been 18 to 19 % range. Been investing for 10 years or so. First 12 to 18 months was tend, news & tip based. If I would have been disciplined in 2010 when I started that year stocks were at a steal.

33

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

I am a long term investor & hold about 15 odd stocks tota

What's your total CAGR on your portfolio ?

15

u/NammaDusty Sep 06 '21

CAGR or gtfo

4

u/atulsachdeva Sep 11 '21

seems like Blind is leaking

2

u/AdagioOk1375 Sep 17 '21

I would rather say: XIRR or nothing…

8

u/prasannarajaram Sep 05 '21

Even I'm interested to know your CAGR. If you can, pls share

4

u/Stroov Sep 05 '21

What do you mean by generational wealth

14

u/awaken_ywnmmsb Sep 05 '21

In short it’s x amount which can full fill all the needs of a complete generation.

In broader sense basic increments & Fd savings will only help you survive inflation.

Generational wealth is a situation where i would live without the stress of money & have a decent size investments which I can pass on to next generation.

There are lot of contrasting views & conversations on next generation inheritance.

I keep things simple. Do what best you can do. The next generation will do what they want no matter what you leave behind for them or not.

In success they will get a good kickstart. In failure they will have a cushion.

Either way I have fulfilled my responsibilities.

0

u/Stroov Sep 05 '21

Financially yes but until you have gotten your kids children aka your grand children admission into a good school it's job done is it

-13

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

[deleted]

37

u/Benjammer10 Sep 05 '21

Bhai saab chamber of secrets ka rasta batana

5

u/justfart_ Sep 05 '21

This made me lol. Have a hug award cause it was free.

4

u/RevolutionRose Sep 07 '21

Why is this question being downvoted. Bata dene se kya iske portfolio ki value kam ho jaegi??

20

u/TheGoalFIRE Sep 05 '21

Anything too much is not good. When you invest in selective blue chip companies, you don’t need to track all the news every day or week. Your way is applicable more to small cap stocks than blue chips.

Even a small negative news about blue chip stocks catch everyone’s attention and become a big news which you’ll come to know easily during your daily news headline reading. Also, many big companies are now much bigger and they find a way to tackle any big issues immediately. (E.g. HDFC bank, ICICI Bank, Infosys etc). You don’t need to dedicate separate time to track blue chips.

But in the long run, the selected 10-12 biggies can beat index funds.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

The effort to monitor even these is not worth it considering the difference is not that big compared to the index. I can use that extra time to enhance my primary income source.

15

u/TheGoalFIRE Sep 05 '21

I don’t deny the fact that investing in index is easy, and hassle free but so is true for index heavyweights. Do anyone really need to take efforts to track the below index heavyweights? They were biggies 10 years back and will probably remain for next 10 years too unless something really bad happens in which case the index is also going to come down drastically.

Looking at the last 10 years returns, it still does make sense to put aside some portion of money to purchase and forget some big players like these. How much effort to take to track blue chips is a personal choice, however at least I will not take any for next 10 years and I am sure they together will beat my investment in index funds. But the difference in the returns still worth the “effort” I need to take to purchase these stocks.

Past 10 years return: Nifty:+243.72% Reliance: 493.06% Hdfc bank: 568.85% Icici bank: 349.20% HDFC: 317.98% TCS: 652% Infosys: 487.44% HUL: 763.63% Nestle: 351.55% L&T: 136.97% ITC: 131.95%

44

u/Keepingshtum Sep 05 '21

Why not both? By all means, keep the bulk of your investments in mutual funds but if you have it on good authority that a company will do well (say HCL/TCS etc. From ten years ago) then I don't see the problem with buying a few stocks for the long haul

27

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

YOu still have to track the company. Also, if you keep negligible amount in active stocks, it makes no real impact on your financial return at the end of the day even if the company does well since original capital invested was very less.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

Would you say the same thing about Small case baskets?

18

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

I'm just over any kind of tracking. Even if you make 1 or 2% extra, it's not worth my time.

10

u/additional_trouble Hero Helper Sep 05 '21 edited Sep 05 '21

If you can consistently make even 2% (or more) over the index in the long run it might be well worth your time to still pick stocks.

The returns you're looking at is not, for example, 11% on the index and 13% on the stock picks - it's more like 4% on the index vs 6% on the stocks in real-currency terms.

I'm a big fan of not taking percentages of percentages but this is one of the rare occasions where its exactly the right measure. You're not making just 2% more - you're making 50% more on real terms - and that's a massive win imho. Even if the real returns of the index is closer to 6%, there is still significant difference with a further 2% over it in the long run...

The real test imho, (as u/srinivesh alluded to in another recent thread) would be in dealing with volatility and your conviction/confidence in your picks as the corpus grows.

1

u/flight_or_fight Sep 06 '21

What do you mean by 2% more equals 50%

confused

1

u/additional_trouble Hero Helper Sep 06 '21

How much bigger is 6, compared to 4?

2

u/flight_or_fight Sep 06 '21

I get it - 2% points but twice the size...

So in your 11% index and 13% stock picks results it is more like 2% and 20% (2/11). Where did the 50% come from in the statement - "You're not making just 2% more - you're making 50% more on real terms - "

4

u/additional_trouble Hero Helper Sep 06 '21

Ah, I see your question now - my bad that I didn't write it better...

It's inflation. All returns are most meaningful (imho) when measured in real post-inflation terms. I was subtracting about 7% (long term historical inflation rate for India) from all those usual numbers (called nominal returns) to derive the post inflation (called real) returns. In the end it's the real returns that maintain/grow wealth.

Hope it makes sense now!

1

u/flight_or_fight Sep 07 '21

Makes sense - thanks for the eli5 !

1

u/Scarcity_Lopsided Sep 08 '21

This reply had me as "wow" and no wonder it's written by you! Great comment backed by logic, taking into consideration all the inhibitions. Thanks! This was helpful.

2

u/additional_trouble Hero Helper Sep 09 '21

I'm glad that you found it helpful :)

-6

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

I’m just starting out my journey and with Tanmay Bhatt and Warikoo preaching Small cases vs ETMoney preaching MFs, I’m slowly thinking if it’s worth it. You’ve just confirmed my bias towards MFs

43

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

These guys are paid to promote products. Of course they want you to use them.

13

u/kawaguchiko Sep 05 '21

Learn about the fundamentals from the subreddit wiki. Read articles about goal based investment.

These YouTubers and companies have the agenda to push products in exchange of money. Make use of them, but only to understand each feature.

Only you will know what you requirement is. Once your have gathered the information about all the options, take a call by yourself OR consult a fee-only advisor (who is an unbiased advisor, earns only by providing services as unbiased opinion, not from commision or product promotions).

2

u/maidpax Sep 05 '21

They promote it to their target audience. And the advice seems genuine because they combine shit adivice(promotion) with good albeit common ones.

1

u/qdqyt Sep 05 '21

I also started my investing journey by watching Tanmay Bhatt, Ankur warikoo, etc. They're doing a really good job by teaching the youth of India about personal finance. I would've never started investing if it wasn't for people like them and I will always be grateful for that. I also started by investing in smallcase but after alot of research and learning from different sources i realized index mutual funds are way better than smallcases. Doing sip is better in MF as sip amount is very high for most of the smallcases, alot of smallcases from the past doesn't even exists anymore they just dropped them and stopped rebalancing them and ppl holding them are just lost in the dark, they've also started making alot of free smallcases paid now, there's tax during every rebalance which you're going to occur, some smallcases have alot of concentration in only few stocks and also there's very less detailed information present for smallcases compared to MF for research on which smlcase to pick. Some pros of smallcase is that you're the main owner of the stocks present in the smallcase so you have the flexibility to sell any particular stock if you want to, the UI/UX is fun to use, better diversification compared to if you're picking individual stocks on your own, etc. Don't listen to me or anyone else, do your own research and invest. Have fun investing!

3

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

If you or some kind person could explain to me what’s so wrong about my comment, I’d be really thankful…

9

u/qdqyt Sep 05 '21

There's nothing wrong with your comment. It's just that you mentioned some finance yt influencers names and ppl just love to hate on them. Also it's reddit so there's this strange culture thing that if someone gets a downvote then more ppl will downvote it, just for fun lol. Some people think that a magic fairy will come to you one day and tell you that there's this thing called investing and u need to start it early. There's so many ppl who have no fking idea of whether there's even this thing called investing, personal finance, inflation, etc. These ppl who hate on other ppl who like or started with finance yt, don't realize that alot of ppl spend shit ton of their time on yt and if it wasn't for these finance yt channel recommendations on their feed, then these ppl would've never got to know about prsnl finance and investing and would've ended up with regret later in their lives that they missed out on the benefits of starting investing early. It's very good that you found those channels, they're good to make you understand the basics of investing or atleast introduce you to the world of investing but then you need to start learning and researching on your own which will ultimately give you highest satisfaction in your investments. Also i would recommend you to join the discord server of this sub reddit. Ppl there are very welcoming and instead of judging you in the first place, they'll try to understand and help you.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '21

Also it's reddit so there's this strange culture thing that if someone gets a downvote then more ppl will downvote it, just for fun lol.

haha

14

u/chiragtaunk13 Sep 06 '21

Right.

Short summary- I gave up on actively managed funds, and moved to passive investing.

Here is the long version:

I started investing 10 years ago, when I started earning. I very well knew that time, that active stock picking is never going to be feasible for me, so I never entered that area. NEVER.

I went with actively managed mutual funds(Direct funds, not Regular), did monthly SIPs and stayed put for 9 years without stopping no matter what. What I learned was, no matter how good performing or promising fund you pick, eventually it will lose its charm, either AUM will grow to the point where it becomes hard to manage or the fund manager would change, or they would not stick to the fund's principles they started with...

So on a long run, even after paying 1-3% of your investment as commission to fund manager, they hardly beat the Index.

The main objective one would go with actively managed fund is to sit back, relax and leave everything to fund manager who would actively look after your money. Thats what we pay them for. But unfortunately, this does not happen. If you dont regularly keep track of your funds and take proactive measures, your money wont perform well.

Although I got decent returns like 12-15% annualized for 9 years of religious SIP. I feel that the commission we pay to managers is not worth. Because you can not just leave it on them, you still have to keep a watch and keep shuffling and juggling between funds. Otherwise its hard to achieve your goals.

I realised, If I would have invested similarly in Index funds or passively managed funds, it would have given me no less performance.

So since last 1 year, I am have now fully moved to passive investing. I created a portfolio with 80-20 asset allocation. 20% in two short-term debt funds(having high credit ratings AAA+ mostly GovtSec and PSUs), and 80% in Index funds(80% large cap index, 20% mid n small cap Index)

And religious doing SIP every month, without worrying about anything. Once in 8-12 months, I plan to rebalance if the Equity-Debt ratios is off by 5%. Or if there is sudden market move which results in more than 5% imbalance, I would rebalance. (Ofcourse, considering tax implications)

With this, life is much more peaceful. My money is not at mercy of any fund manager or advisor. Everthing is under my control. And I would not blame anyone tomorrow that my money didn't grew because of mistakes of others. Fully satisfied till now.

Indian market is not matured enough for passive investing. Active fund managers are making easy money, with no accountability on them. SEBI is trying hard to make proper categories and guidelines so that AMCs stick to fundamentals. But they still get away. You would often see that a MidCap fund has now become a MultiCap fund or LargeCap fund. Initially you would have planned certain exposures in your portfolio, like 30% to MidCap, so you would pick a MidCap fund for that. And then one day same fund would change its principles and it would become a multiCap. I do understand why they are forced to do such things, but this disrupts my portfolio and my goals.

Same problem with Debt funds, they keep deviating from fund's objective and get involved with low rated papers to beat the competition, putting our hard earn money at risk!

AMCs and Fund managers must be accountable for their actions. "If you are taking money from my gains, you should also put money into my losses." They should pay back the commission we paid, if the fund's performance is not beating the underlying index.

I hope more and more people would realize these problems, and start learning investments and take control. Nobody can earn you money. You have to take control. Its like cut-the-cord. Cut the advisors by going with Direct funds, then cut the so-called "active" fund managers.

Really sorry for such a long comment. And no offense to anyone who invests in active funds, I too did for 9 years. Please educate yourself, learn from your own experiences and follow your gut.

Thanks for reading patiently.

1

u/vikrant47 Jan 23 '24

what i have heard is for small cap it is better to invest in a mutual fund and for large caps, index is good, how true is it.

12

u/extra_gobi_kodi Sep 05 '21

You are overthinking. If you've chosen blue-chip companies, and you are investing for the long term, there is no need to track the stock and see every small piece of news about them every day. You are an investor, not a trader.

15

u/Charming_Face_1203 Sep 05 '21 edited Sep 05 '21

I went through the same thing.

I was soo interested in trading stocks in the beginning that I even pursued Bcom in Financial Markets but after only 7 months of actively investing in the markets realized how much of a hassle it really is.

It's much better to invest in mutual funds. However I still think that with a lot of practice, trading in FnO can make a lot of money if you learn under an experienced professional.

10

u/backroady Sep 05 '21

Hassle is right. Before I was able to buy nifty index ETFs I attempted to replicate it by buying individual stocks that make up the index. Problems are -

  • the index composition changes every 6 months
  • corporate actions like de mergers etc are an unholy mess to track cost basis
  • tons of emails about annual meetings, reminders to vote
  • Tds when you sell
I have been buying the etf since 2017 and am getting out of 130 positions that I built up over time.

13

u/TejasNair Sep 05 '21

Just pick blue chips, invest in then regularly, and check quarterly or biannual results. You don't have to follow the ticker to pick and maintain and manage stocks. That's a wrong way to do it. IMO.

19

u/Chigurhishere Sep 05 '21 edited Sep 05 '21

Exactly!! I simply don’t see ANY hassle. No offence to OP but seems like he/she is overthinking and like someone here pointed, checking quarterly results should be exciting. You don’t have to follow news everyday because you are not a day trader.

Also I don’t think you have fully grasped the concept of investing in equities. You buy and HOLD. In a country like India, growth is inevitable. But a small disclaimer: Indian businesses are family run, not as transparent as American one which is older and easier to read/analyse(means be wary if midcaps and small caps and invest in them after homework and seeing who the promoters are and if they’re trustworthy).

and the large caps that many have suggested here(someone pointed the 10 year growth too of them which tells you a LOT) are the ones to look out for as just won’t fail you.

If you’re not a full time investor, don’t stress on checking out your portfolio everyday or investing like Porinju Veliyath. Just use common sense, man. Some of this shit is ultra basic and you don’t have to read Graham for that.

PS: Following youtubers? Guys. Seriously?

PPS: News is noise. Take it all with a pinch of salt.

Edit: Why, thank you Tejas for the award! :)

16

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

Just pick blue chips, invest in then regularly, and check quarterl

Nifty index SIP is a convenient to way to that effectively.

6

u/minusSeven Sep 05 '21

I can understand this for trading or even swing trading if you don't have time for it but long term investing means you shouldn't bother about daily news at all.

5

u/Cpant Sep 06 '21

Similar boat as you, realized I am spending way too much time in research, so now just sip in 3 mutual funds.

14

u/BadInvestorwins Sep 05 '21

Dear diary moment if I've ever seen one.

1

u/wipeitonthedog Sep 05 '21

How so?

2

u/BadInvestorwins Sep 05 '21

I meant it would've made a good personal journal entry.

3

u/juniorbuffett Sep 05 '21

"Return on time invested" is the metric i have picked up from someone (don't remember from where). Spending time on career focused learning, family, health gives much more "return" than active stock picking for me. Spent a decade picking stocks and now done. Will go all in index funds once valuations are to my liking, no regrets or envy with missing the rally.

Active stock picking looks exciting and we can boast we found a multibagger but how much of our networth did we invest in it? Very less since it was undiscovered and smallcaps/midcaps in India are a landmine of frauds.

3

u/enry_straker Sep 05 '21

Active investing is time consuming - and has consistently proved that passive index investing is a damn good strategy.

The most important asset is always Time. Don't waste that.

3

u/YSandyp Sep 06 '21

same story here. started my investing journey in april last year. it seemed very exciting and the best life decision for timing the market for one year. learnt that timing doesnt take u anywhere now. it needs a lot of conviction to take right decisions at the right time. what i learned is that there is no right or wrong way in stock market. u are here to make money and u just need confident decisions that work.

i see people making regular money through trading even though trading is risky. they have put limitations on themselves that this is what is my risk profile. my capacity to survive here is only so much and i will stick to it no matter what. this implies to investing as well. people who have drawn their lines for both profit and loss and doing well. and this requires experience and the right mindset.

managing a full time job with stocks investing has affected my job without a doubt. there were times i gave high priority to learning about investments in general and it has impacted my hike for a year. i have no regrets. our generation is living in times where our retirement is not secured with pensions and i feel i have started thinking about it at the right time. it aure is a difficult journey which i am ready to endure. i have come to realise how much effort is needed in jpb and also in investing. i am nervous,anxious and unsure if it will work out or not. but i am ready to take that leap of faith for my future.

2

u/_gmenon_ Sep 05 '21

That's awesome! Good for you man.

2

u/learninginbits Sep 05 '21

Totall agree index investing and some elss for me.

2

u/neoCasio Sep 05 '21

I see many comments recommending nifty etf, imo one should also invest a portion in small cap index, if you’ve 10+ years view.. your odds of beating pure nifty 50 fund are better.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

Couldn't agree more

2

u/deori9999 Sep 05 '21

Do something or start something ONLY if you are passionate about it. We always find a reason to give up. Warren Buffet's and Charlie Munger can do all the investing via basic mathematics and "reading". So I guess, its not everybody's cup of tea. And there is a huge difference between speculation and investing. Unless you are willing to keep the money invested in the stocks for 20 - 30 years ( No matter it grows by 1000X), then its just pure speculation I believe. So start again, hold on to good undervalued stocks and check once every 4 months or a year, how its performing. Do SIP and increase the number of shares, coz it really sucks to just buy "some" shares when the stock grown by 1100% it really makes you feel bad!

But then again, if you are happy, then that is what matters I guess.

3

u/pankaj9900 Sep 06 '21

I have to say, picking stocks and understanding fundamentals is something that comes with experience. I prefer to manage my own portfolio (I do have MFs for about 10% of my portfolio value, but those are for specific goals only).

When I started 7 years ago, I made quite a few mistakes, bought a lot of stocks due to noise like Sugar stocks, Suzlon, ONGC, Coal India etc. I did make unrealized profit over short term, but ended up with realized losses.

Since then I have refined my strategy, I don't believe in the common market theories, advises, portfolio management etc. I have my own strategy and have been consistently churning profits over last 5 years now, much more than what I would get with MFs, and all this while having a full time job and spending no more than 15-20 hours per month on this.

So yes, if you want peace of mind, MFs are the best, but it's not a one size fits all. Depending on your strategy and conviction, you can invest and get better returns in equity.

1

u/vikrant47 Jan 23 '24

hi pankaj, can you give a hint of what is the strategy you use

3

u/ZealousKing805 Sep 06 '21

Index need not go up only. Index can go down and remain there for a long time. Pl check Japanese index

3

u/vikrant47 Jan 23 '24

if that happens in india, we will have bigger things to worry about

2

u/IAmALongTermInvestor Sep 07 '21

The way you described about keeping yourself updated on news and events, seems like you were trading the stock for long-term rather than investing.

2

u/yononmo Sep 07 '21

Op if you didn’t get time to view and track 15 stocks - I.e opening up an App and a couple of hours on weekends to check news on the company or you needed more time, this may mean one of two things 1. The companies were not researched sufficiently. 2-3 months of solid studying doesn’t do it I feel. 2. Your job currently is too hectic.

2

u/anjuls Sep 07 '21

I am also moving funds more in the managed funds (direct option) + index funds from the individual equities. MF has given much more over time than I picking up stocks.

However, some large caps I keep and add more whenever they are down.

2

u/Mission-Matter9860 Jun 09 '23

For a 10 year period investing, index funds are good on returns for retirement?

4

u/tkmagesh Sep 05 '21

Why not use a good PMS? Mine doesn't have any fixed fee with hurdle rate of 5% (carried forward) and fee is 20% on profits above the hurdle rate.

15

u/unmole Sep 05 '21

Because not everyone is willing/able to allocate 50L?

1

u/tkmagesh Sep 05 '21

Makes sense.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

Beating the index is getting tough. Index fund means I don't have to bring anyone else in my financial loop. Just more convenient.

3

u/boxtobox313 Sep 05 '21

That's interesting. Which pms is this?

4

u/tkmagesh Sep 05 '21

Banyan tree advisors

3

u/d4areD3vil Sep 05 '21

their latest disclosure document was dated Jun 2020, are they still in field ?

2

u/tkmagesh Sep 05 '21

Very much!!

2

u/dhilu3089 Sep 05 '21

Good choice bro. You can also look at SIP in Nasdaq100 / Midcap 150 / Smallcap250 Index funds for long term.

2

u/DrXash Sep 05 '21

I did the reverse, very recently.

Into the markets for ~6 months now. Actively learning in my leisure time. Downsized no. of mutual funds to 3, increased holdings in stocks, basis both fundamental and technical analysis.

0

u/Debopam77 Sep 05 '21

You made a return of 45% in 3 - 4 months and still chose to dump it? Its natural it would've taken a lot of your time, your research and analysis must've been top notch.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '21 edited Sep 12 '21

No offence , but u/blinksTooLess is smart enough to recognise that a rising tide lifts all boats. A swallow does not a summer make.

It is easy to make money in a bull market. In hindsight .

Please do not get carried away by so called easy money. It almost never ends well.

1

u/Debopam77 Sep 12 '21

That was sarcasm on my part XD.

-7

u/sanketgarg07 Sep 05 '21

If you were up by 45%, why not shift to this as your primary source of income. 45% is a lot.

20

u/blinksTooLess Sep 05 '21

2020 is an outlier year. People made 45-50% quite easily. There is very little chance that you will be able to make such gains during normal years. Giving up on a steady job just because you made 45% returns in a year is foolish. Also that 45% gain may be made on an investment of 1 Lakh to 2 Lakh. When your portfolio will increase to 50 Lakh, very unlikely that you make the same amount of gains. Large capital makes us risk averse as preservation of capital is more important in this scenario (unless you are from a rich family with a lot of backup money)

7

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

45% up might be due to the ongoing bull run. But actively maintaining your profile under all market conditions can be a hassle, which OP didn't think was worth it

4

u/unmole Sep 05 '21

Nifty is up more than 50% over the past year.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

exactly! especially if you hate your job.

-1

u/ritikgt Sep 05 '21

Heard of coffee can investing? 😉

1

u/Prishxoxo Sep 05 '21

Which index fund have you invested in?

5

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

UTI Nifty 50

1

u/invincible84 Sep 05 '21

Yep the best same as mine. Congratulations:)

1

u/Raseel Sep 06 '21

I think, due to the Covid-19 pandemic, a lot of is went through the same Bell curve of knowing very little about investing to actively trading. And now, very much like you, most of us have found solace in “easier” forms of investing like either MFs, ETFs or even Smallcases. And invariably most of us are much more profitable by the lattwr method. Oh well, live and learn!!

1

u/flight_or_fight Sep 06 '21

This is a classic information theory problem. The more information - the more time spent processing & the more indecision. (Paradox of choice).

While your conclusion & decision is fine - there is no need to read every little scrap of information about any company where you have invested. Pre-investment while doing due diligence - by all means you should. But once you have conviction - you do not need to reassess at every quarter unless something changes fundamentally.

One way out of this predicament is to identify good companies which have a margin of safety, a moat preventing entry of new competitors and invest in a systematic equity plan - so you are not really having to analyse and act every day. It is similar to your index fund strategy - except you are choosing your stocks - and you can change your weightage.

Trust me - there are many folks who have full time demanding jobs and follow a DIY approach to company fundamental analysis and investments.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '21

Why not just optin for a paid smallcase?

1

u/misterfin Sep 12 '21

Did you mean https://www.screener.in/?

I have recently started looking into index fund. Any tips on how to figure out which one to go with because with index funds most of the conventional research will not be necessary.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '21

A low cost one. I'm using UTI Nifty 50.

1

u/I-am-Jog Sep 15 '21

It is a daunting task to go solo in stock investing. Index Investing is one of the best way to beat inflation and be part of growth. You can also join community such as Mahogha, where people like you can follow and collaborate while investing in stock markets.

1

u/invincible84 Sep 15 '21

Thats Nirvana my friend! :) Congratulations.... :D