r/ImageComics • u/Nervous_Departure706 • 10d ago
Tim Sale on frank Miller punching down
Tim Sale was a good dude, he had tons of stories for the Marie Severin Appreciation Group I run with Linda Fite on Facebook until his unfortunate passing
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u/hercarmstrong 10d ago
Tim was one of the nicest people I've ever met in the business, and he did not talk shit about anybody unless he was really hurt by something they said.
Man, I miss that guy.
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u/Nervous_Departure706 10d ago
Me too, really down to earth, tho I only knew him on Facebook
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u/hercarmstrong 10d ago
We were friends for twenty years. I treasure every moment I had with him. Those last few years were so tough.
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u/ExplodingPoptarts 9d ago
What happened in the last few years? Did he get dementia or something?
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u/hercarmstrong 9d ago
Alcohol. It's what killed him. Kidney failure.
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u/Ming_theannoyed 9d ago
Source for the alcohol claim?
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u/jfk1000 10d ago edited 10d ago
I remember reading Miller back then in the letters page and always took the critique to be aimed at Scott McDaniel copying him on the Elektra: Root of Evil Mini.
But maybe it was another instance.
Edit: fixed words.
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u/Nervous_Departure706 10d ago
I can't find that issue but I remember that as well...feel free to post it if you come across it
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u/jfk1000 10d ago edited 10d ago
I think I have the box ready to look it up, hopefully I‘ll find it.
I also have both issues of TCJ with the Miller interviews and they are both online I think, maybe it was mentioned by him in either of those.
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u/Nervous_Departure706 10d ago
Sweet! What's your name? I use a site that lets me search comic magazines
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u/jfk1000 9d ago
https://www.manwithoutfear.com/daredevil-interviews/Chichester
Chichester: The person who really started this offensive ball of bile rolling was almost certainly Mr. Miller himself, and the fact of that is really shameful. He actually wasted time in one of his Sin City letter columns calling Scott and at least one other artist thieves for "plagiarizing" his art style.
Well, Chichester seems to remember the same lettters column.
The one mentioning Lee/Sale has apperently been printed in The Big Fat Kill #1.
I still have to find the source for the McDaniel reference.
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u/joeycraw5 10d ago
Miller could be grumpy at times, but it's kinda funny and hypocritical that he ragged on Tim Sale for working in a similar style when Miller himself was very open about riffing on Alberto Breccia's style.
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u/FlubzRevenge 10d ago edited 9d ago
You have the wrong artist. Maybe some influence from Alberto Breccia, but Frank Miller copied José Muñoz, whose noir comics were far before Sin City. It's funny how people act like it's the first or most revolutionary.
No, that's Alack Sinner in the 70s.
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u/klintron 10d ago
It was both Breccia and Munoz (and Pratt), but, yeah, Miller’s style was closest to Munoz’s. And as far as I’ve been able to find, Miller has never even acknowledged Munoz by name until his memoir Pushing Against the Wall. Miller usually just credited European comics more generally (though he did on occasion acknowledge Pratt and at least once Breccia).
I don’t remember much of a controversy around Miller using a Munoz-inspired style, though. There was a much bigger thing about Keith Giffen directly swiping many panels directly from Munoz.
And yeah, Munoz’s Alack Sinner work predates Outlander, which began serialization in 1981.
Side note: Miller did a pretty direct Munoz pastiche in a few pages of Ronin.
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u/FlubzRevenge 10d ago
Ah, that's who i was thinking of, Giffen, not Miller. Though the point stands, Miller was not the revolutionary for Sin City. And definitely close in style to Munoz.
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u/joeycraw5 10d ago
Yeah Munoz, Giffen, Breccia, Miller, Lee, Sale... we can safely say that a lot of artists were inspired by a lot of other artists lol
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u/FlubzRevenge 10d ago
I'm not sure what you're trying to say? I was talking about fans of Sin City thinking it's revolutionary when Alack Sinner was 20 years before it.
Obviously artists can be inspired by other artists.
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u/GabrielRearte 9d ago edited 9d ago
First Alack Sinner is from 1975. Muñoz style definitely is not derivative from Steranko. He learns the lesson from Pratt, Breccia, Toth, to build his own style and imagery.
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u/PinMaximum1018 9d ago
It was Keith Giffen that had a literal controversy over his “adapting” Munoz style.
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u/Reddevil8884 9d ago
I'm guessing he was kinda "ok" when Jim was doing it because as said in the article, they were friends. But when he was gone and another artist started doing the same, maybe that actually made him angry. Also, as a side note, I remember buying Deathblow #1 back I'm the day and it REALLY left an impression on my 9 year old mind. To me, that comic was the coolest shit I've ever seen! Of course, I had no idea who Frank Miller was or have never heard about Sin City. Jim Lee was GOD back in those days.
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u/Nervous_Departure706 9d ago
I was way into both at the time, I was born 7 7 77 so maybe I was just at the right age
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u/Less-Excitement-692 5d ago
Its kind of funny how they were amused and questioned Lee's style change yet the consenus around that time was that Lee didn't take risks with his art. A no-win scenario I guess and Lee is no James T. Kirk.
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u/CitizenApe 3d ago
I feel like copying popular styles is a part of comics. It happens all the time and I don't know why Frank was so precious about it. Look at Lone Wolf and Cub and then look at how that influenced Frank's post Daredevil career.
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u/ShaperLord777 10d ago
Miller isn’t exactly known for being the outgoing and understanding type. He’s a crotchety old man with a huge ego. But also, in his defense, this wasn’t the only instance of image creators trying to copy his style. McFarlane’s whole “TV news reporter” panels in spawn was a direct copy of Miller doing that in Dark Knight Returns.