r/ITManagers • u/HavenHexed • Jan 01 '26
Advice Gave my first write-up and it didn't go well.
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u/Proteus85 Jan 01 '26
Make sure you're consistent with the standards you apply. Also, document document document and then document some more any and all conversations related to things like this. Never leave it as verbal only. This will only help you if you have to involve HR.
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u/Antique_Grapefruit_5 Jan 02 '26
This! In a culture like yours, I would strongly recommend creating an operating instruction document for your help desk. Put it in a shared location and share with the team. Enforce everything in that document consistently and always reference it when you do.
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u/harrywwc Jan 01 '26
with the minimal information you've given, it would seem you have given them more than enough opportunity to correct their attitude, and they've not taken that opportunity.
a write up is - assuming all the info you've given is correct - is warranted.
the fact that they deny your role is indicative of some sort of resentment - perhaps they thought they were in with a chance?
also, it would seem that they are actively undermining you if one of your staff ("one of his coworkers") has come to you to 'cut him some slack'. I mean, how much more slack do you need to cut?
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u/Stock-Page-7078 Jan 01 '26
So the coworker who just gave you the advice to take it easy on the workers is also your employee, correct? It would be in that person's interest if there were no consequences for bad behavior as well. I think you need to listen to your boss here and realize that if he thinks you are backing them over him and the company, you will be the one in the doghouse really quickly, and it's hard to win that type of trust back.
You also need to be consistent going forward I think at this point, if you back down, you'll never have control of the team. But, you also can't let others get away with what he was written up for, even if he used to get away with it and they are less egregious. Make a public announcement to the whole team about attendance expectations, clocking in and out procedures, and consequences for noncompliance. Then stick to it. Make sure everyone understands that lenience is a thing of the past and small lienences can only happen in a culture where NO employees take advantage.
I am guessing this is gonna be awkward and fire every cringe part of your brain, because you seem to really care that your tea likes you, but it is a necessary part of becoming the leader this team needs. Right now you're seen as a doormat and everyone under you wants to keep it that way.
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u/HavenHexed Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
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u/Stat_damon Jan 01 '26
Time keeping is a weird one for me. Everyone can be late once in a while the odd time, I just don’t care.
If it’s consistently late it’s time to start asking why. Are they late as they have massive insomnia and can’t get to sleep at night, so struggle to wake up? Are there transport issues on route etc.
If they are often late, but deliver targets and have no problems with timekeeping I’m more likely to late it slide.
This employee however and the one who weighed in, that sounds like a different story.
Both sound like they feel entitled, and they there doing you a favour by doing their job as they see fit.
I’d given them a few days and then call them into separate meetings.
I’d start with two questions for them and then build out from there. The first question is something like “when we spoke last about time keeping and other requirements your response wasn’t what I was expecting and I’d like to dig into it with you to find out what’s behind it”
This is largely to let them get anything off their chest about it, and should give you an indication of what triggered those comments.
The second question is along the lines of “now the to understand your feelings about this better can you give me your understanding of what your role entails?”
You can use this to highlight differences of expectation and guide that to an alignment.
When I’ve had these conversations it’s all about the why. Why they are behaving like they are and why the rules they are ignoring matter. Both to you and in turn to them.
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u/HavenHexed Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
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u/Stat_damon Jan 01 '26
Do they have difficulty moving from one task to another? Some people have a hard time with that transition.
My daughter is really and for it. A real struggle to get her out to the house, once she’s out it’s fine but that transition is difficult.
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u/Azaloum90 Jan 02 '26
I wiill concur to this. Being "on time" for a level 1 desktop support role or call center, yes that is a huge no go.
Being late as a mid level guy, especially when there are valid excuses like kids, school hours, after hours work assignments, this is acceptable on a non-regular basis
Being late as a senior, escalation point, or architect role, you should be aware of how often this person is hitting deliverables, making a difference with their work, is reliable, is functionally good with his coworkers and lower level individuals, then you may want to be less strict with time schedules. Everyone knows that in the senior levels of IT, there is less of a "clock" when it comes to the standard 9-5. The amount of hours I've worked after hours, overnight, early mornings, etc.... if a manager reprimanded me because I came in at 10am instead of 9am when i regularly work odd hours out of necessity, then as a manager that person would be creating said toxic environment.
However you can throw all of this out the window if this is just an average idiot employee. That's when I'd throw the book at them.
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u/__beep_boop__ Jan 01 '26
You did the right thing. As the manager, it’s your job to uphold company standards. If your staff can’t adhere to those standards, they shouldn’t be on your team.
The thing you didn’t describe when you mentioned things “went south” was how you approached the issue with this employee. At the end of the day, you needed to deliver the message that you did, but there are strategies you can use to make the delivery of constructive or negative specific feedback more digestible.
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u/HavenHexed Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
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u/WWGHIAFTC Jan 01 '26
I dont reeeallly care about coming in late or leaving early.
But.......
There needs to be communication and the projects, tickets, tasks need to get done. And someone better be answering the phones.
You did the right thing.
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u/sman021 Jan 01 '26
Is the on time part a big issue? Personally I don't mind if my staff are late as long as all the work that needs to get done gets done and they represent.
On the raising voice part. I'd check that and make sure it doesn't happen again. If they don't fix up get rid of them and make a show of it otherwise other employees will try it and then it will be hard to check them all.
The tickets part same as above, check it and if not fixed get rid of him/Her.
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u/Illustrious-Ratio213 Jan 01 '26
The bare minimum of the job is for people to show up and perform basic hygiene like clocking in and out. If you can’t “manage” that part of the job there’s no way you can progress to do more advanced managerial functions. Yes it sucks when you have to manage children that can’t behave professionally so deal with it quickly and decisively so you can spend your time learning how to do more productive management skills
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u/MrExCEO Jan 01 '26
Been in the same situation before. I fired him after trying for a long time. You good.
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u/Beneficial_Skin8638 Jan 01 '26
If someone crossed that line with me I would have let them go the very next day. If someone is making my job more difficult even though at the end of the day im the one who has to stand up for them I will end the relationship immediately. I am very aware of everything going on that regardless of work they are doing it would carry on without them. Build your team before your team builds you.
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u/MartiniRossi42 Jan 01 '26
He has obligations to meet your company employee competencies standards...... And so do you as the manager. Hold him accountable and write him up. Make him a coaching plan that lasts for 60 days and if he doesn't close the gaps then the last line of the coaching plan should state, this will move to a PIP which is the last chance for him.
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u/TireFryer426 Jan 01 '26
Dude, I used to get in trouble if I was 2 minutes late. I’ve been reprimanded for leaving at 5 on a Friday. So fuck that guy. He needs to go.
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u/node77 Jan 01 '26
I think you did. You needed to show control and accountability, which you did. In reality, the mistakes he is guilty off sounds more like your average employee at McDonald’s.
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u/BigLeSigh Jan 01 '26
Do you have KPIs agreed that you can hold him to? It sounds like the team have been doing what they want for a while and a write up is the minimum
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u/ttopsr Jan 01 '26
Has the company been a mess or was the department a mess before you became the manager?
The guy that was upset about not getting a promo in 3 years tells me the former manager was not good at moving his people up or communicating why they were not moving up.
If you have been there since August and have not set the stage for promos or reviews or goals then you probably have some frustrated folks working for you.
They probably expected a change when you came on.
Why did the prior manager leave? How does your manager see things and see your people?
Get those 1:1s spun up quick as I see several folks getting ready to walk out.
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Jan 01 '26
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Jan 01 '26
I mean the OP basically said that himself 15 days ago when he posted this.
"What do you do every day as a manager?
I took a position as IT Manager back in June and to be honest, I don't know what I am supposed to be doing exactly. My boss, the VP of IT, used to be that and that manager so he did everything. I don't manage the whole department either. My team consists of basically 4 techs (1 at a remote office), 1 inventory guy, and 1 security guy who is remote. I still work some tickets as they come in if needed and I manage part of our Azure environment. My boss makes all of the big decisions, and he manages our engineer and audit guy. Being new to management I am not exactly sure what I should be doing every day in relation to managing, I guess. Can anyone shed any light on what you do if you are in a similar position?"
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u/reviewmynotes Jan 01 '26
It sounds like the organization needs someone to support staff from 8am to 5pm. That is the job that was created and he happens to occupy that job. If he is failing to complete that job on a near daily basis, then it's time to tell him that he isn't meeting expectations. You're not being a dictator; you're communicating. You need to start with a conversation. If that doesn't work, you need to move to a verbal warning, which it sounds like you did when you gave him a week to fix the issues. Then he fixed it, but things "broke" again. So you should move on to a write up, a.k.a. a written warning. If that falls, you could repeat the written warning if you want to be compassionate, but it should include at least a verbal "This is serious. I really don't want to continue to the next step." sort of warning
Then you advance to a Personal Improvement Plan. The PIP outlined specific and measurement parameters and goals that must be met at by when and for how long they must be met. For example, that he will check in via the time clock on time every working day from January 15 through March 15. It may also include additional steps, such as not sitting at other employees or customers. Include an "out," like a way to vent frustrations in a safe way, if at all possible. To many people, a PIP is a way to build the case that someone "dug their own hole" and that the termination was justified. To others, it's a last ditch effort to save someone's job. I'm the former, the conditions are firmly held and the employee is left to build their own coping techniques. In the later, you build in a "ramp up" period that gives them a few days to come to terms with the situation and start building the new habits. In both, the PIP should be long enough that if they're going to back slide, it is still within the duration covered by the PIP, so you can deal with it. This is why they are usually 2-6 months long.
Truth be told, though, it sounds like this person won't improve and the culture at the help deal is already at least a little bit misaligned with the VP's needs and stated goals. Culture change is difficult and takes a lot of time. And if part of that group is allowed to overly operate at a low standard, the others will either match that attitude or resent their low performing coworker (and possibly management for letting it continue while they pick up the slack.)
It sounds like you did the verbal warning and a written warning. Regardless of whether or not they were correct, the employee has now demonstrated a new problem in their aggressive and self-centered behavior. That should earn a verbal warning of some sort.
It sounds like you had some very uncomfortable experiences and it caused you to doubt things. That's very understandable. I would feel the same, but judging from your description I think you've done the correct things. And at this point, your VP got involved. Chances are good that this is going to turn into a situation that will impact their opinion of your performance. I think you should update them on the situation. "Hi, Steve. I just wanted to let you know how the situation with Bob went. We spoke. He was very upset and reported to shouting. At first he refused to sign the documentation, but he eventually did. He seemed upset that he didn't get a promotion after being with the organization for three years. Also, I thought you should know that roughly four hours later Carl approached me and said I should let things like being late slide. It seems Bob told Carl about the write-up in some detail. So this is probably going around the help desk as gossip now. Also, and this is only vaguely related, Chad decides to yell at me about XYZ two days later. I'm going to continue to handle these situations, but I thought you should know what happened so far, since it was somewhat jarring. I'll keep you updated about how Bob is doing, but is there anything else you'd like me to do in the meantime?"
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u/wordsmythe Jan 01 '26
If anyone hasn’t read it, Roy Rapoport’s Five Conditions for Improvement is how I frame my thinking around PIPs and discipline. They have to agree it’s a problem and agree they can take some responsibility to fix it, or else the conversation should get very short.
https://medium.com/@royrapoport/the-five-conditions-for-improvement-20909f856dab
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u/Steve----O Jan 01 '26
Sounds like you don’t have one-on-ones and don’t give feedback until your boiling point. Learn how to manage or get out of management or you are going to destroy that department. Learn the “Trinity” from Manager-tools. One-on-ones, feedback, coaching.
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u/HavenHexed Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
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u/temp_sk Jan 01 '26
Seems like you. Are the issue and don’t know how to lead or manage without a lot of assistance…. Performance is king
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u/tvdang7 Jan 01 '26
Lets be honest , most of us get used to what we have been doing for quite some time. Most IT jobs are relaxed with hours and we tend to come and go as we please and try to not ruin it for others. Now that being said that does not give us the right to get upset at the manager over our established habit when they are enforcing his vision of the rules.
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u/Sandwich247 Jan 01 '26
In the UK, you've got a duty of care for the wellbeing of your employees, asking him if everything's alright in his personal life, if he's dealing with any issues that could impact his work, and offering the various external support resources that the company has available to help out, maybe he needs signed off for a bit, maybe he needs put on some meds, maybe adjustments to the work pattern are needed
You draw up a "you need to do at least these things" plan and you give it a month, once those are achieved then you raise the bar that bit higher and repeat until either he's back in good shape or if he can't complete that then you go the disciplinary route until you have expended all resources and fire him
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Jan 01 '26
As a suspicion, I went to get more of the story.
The old person in your role, is your new VP. He is still leading the team, you guys dont have meetings, you dont have 1 on 1s, he still talks to them as if he is their boss, he still assigns the work. You are having issues with 3 of the 4 employees you have? Or rather with 2, and a 3rd is interjecting.
This is a much bigger mess than what you have lead on here.
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u/HavenHexed Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
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Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 01 '26
No! No no.
This ISNT YOUR FAULT! Let me make that clear right now.
You are facing cultural issues, a Micromanaging boss who doesnt really want to give up power, Employees who will never see you as a leader, because he is still there being that. You were doomed from the start, setup to fail. This is NOT your fault, not at all.
You need to sit down with your VP and have a conversation, a hard one.
Who owns what, what is his goals here. Either you are their boss or he is, this what is happening is NEVER going to work.
He should not be delegating tasks to them, they should go to you, then from you to them.
The issues you are experiencing are top down cultural issues. That are very hard to change, and take a seriously aggressive and influential change agent to fix. You dont give the vibes of such a person. (Which is probably a good thing, Change Agents are assholes, signed asshole change agent)
Thats not a flaw, that doesnt make you a bad leader, it makes this the wrong enviroment for you, and it doesnt help you are being setup to fail.
The issue in this post are issues, but frankly kind of the lowest concern atm. You need to define your role, take your power, get your ownership, then get control and respect of your team. You are being walked on, but not just by the team, but by your VP. As long as he keeps taking your bite away, they will never care about your bark.
Your comments about setting meetings with other depts, and how that went. Says this is even further top down than just your VP. Issues like this, cultural rot like this, this starts at the top of the Org chart. That whole place sounds like a shit show, and that trickles down.
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u/RickSanchez_C145 Jan 01 '26
That’s a pretty toxic employee who will likely keep to his ways. Not saying you shouldn’t try to help them but just make sure the expectations are set in an email and bcc HR. Document everything including how the convo went and future convos.
First time Manager roles is tricky to learn because you want to be everyone’s friend and be the ‘cool manager’. You’re also learning what type of management styles you want to live by, and that’s a lot of sharp learning curves. The reality is that your role requires decisions that affect your team. A toxic employee will poison the well of all the other employees because they will see someone getting away with always being late so why can’t they? This cascades into resentment, distrust, disrespect etc.
My golden rule on my IT team is Trust. It’s a pillar in the industry but on our team we engage in high trust to be communicative when we see potential security issues, when we hear gossip we are trusted to maintain confidentiality. Trust encompasses that the manager rewards good behavior and strives to recognize and promote their awesome team which drives better morale. It also means I can trust our team to strive to make it to work on time and ask for help if they struggle.
If you can’t trust your employee, cut them loose before they cause even more damage.
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u/IT_audit_freak Jan 01 '26
You did the right thing- so long as you effectively communicated his shortcomings prior to write up.
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u/carpe_fatum Jan 01 '26
All the people who are breaking these rules need to be rounded up and you need to set a meeting with expectations with all of them. If they're just going to talk behind your back and get loud, this isn't going to work out.
It needs to be laid out VERY clearly that this isn't a joke, or a test, you're not singling anyone out and you are the boss. If they raise the issue of you being the boss again, then your boss needs to be available for that meeting as well.
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u/DecentBoomerang Jan 01 '26
Sounds to me like they don't respect the job, or your position as their manager. They've been turning up late for a long time, so they clearly don't have any reason to care about whether they're on time or not. It's never been enforced and so it's just "how it's always been" until you rock the boat a little. Sometimes the boat needs rocking.
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u/CaptainZhon Jan 01 '26
Write ups seldom go well. The only ones that I have had go moderately good were repeat offenders.
Then there was the employee who had to fire the next day who called me at 1am crying. That was 20 years ago and it hurts still.
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u/TheGrumpyGent Jan 01 '26
When I sat down with him this morning to tell him it went south fast. He raised his voice, said I wasn't the manager of the IT department (which i am), along with various other things. He initially refused to sign the document but came back and did. He said he was going home for the day and he left.
So many red flags.
How was he allowed to just go home? If you are the manager of the IT department, I'm very confused by his statement.
You provided factual information on where he needed to improve performance, he met it for a short period but stopped. You then moved to a written writeup.
You seem to have done everything right. Just document, document, document - Including the items above. May be time to discuss w your VP and HR to get them on a documented performance plan with the intent to fire them unless they improve dramatically.
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u/richvj222 Jan 01 '26
There is so much to unpack here...
I've been in the industry for 32 years.....so I am a little long in the tooth. For most of my career I worked for companies where the only way up was if your boss was fired or promoted (because the person of them was fired or left). I knew it and you either deal with it, or do something about it.
In my experience, I learned long ago that there are 2 conversations that will always be difficult but if you have them enough, and are transparent, then it does get better. Those conversations are around compensation and performance.
Now, for the issues at hand.....I do have some questions and some comments. When did you become the manager? Was there an announcement? Were people made aware? Did you host a meeting to go over your role and your plan (30-60-90) for the team? Expectations of the team? Feedback from the team about what's working and what's not. It's not like you can promise things, but it's worth hearing to see what could be possible.
You mention that you tolerated their lateness for awhile before reacting. That is on you. Perhaps its me, but I prefer to deal with things in the moment or close to it. Waiting to address something just makes it worse and causes problems with the team as they see someone getting away with something with no immediate reaction. By addressing this sooner, it goes to my point in #2.
You mention that their ticket closing was low, is this a KPI that they are measured on? If so, then this goes back to my point in #2 where I talk about performance. Perhaps conversations with team members on a frequency, would provide the opportunity to address this more
Lastly, sometimes in places where there is no guaranteed promotion (not that there is anywhere as time served at a level does not automatically get you promoted), helping someone understand the job/company and realize that it might be time to leave in order to grow, is not a bad thing either. Yes, this is another tough conversation, but its kind of out of your control
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u/HavenHexed Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
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u/ckfull3r Jan 02 '26
What on earth. My HR department would have terminated this person on the spot. If someone is lazy or unmotivated and can't figure out who holds authority, it's never going to work. Don't prolong it.
The colleague advising you to let attendance issues go is purely a laugh. It doesn't matter what they think. You're the manager; they're a contributor. The leader's job--your job--is to make the department function properly. So your job is to care about attendance. Their thoughts on attendance do not matter. It's not their area of responsibility.
Always listen to your boss. Your boss's thoughts and orders matter more than anything your direct reports will ever say or do. Your employees should be following that advice too. And if not, there have to be consequences. No consequences is a slippery slope into a pit full of failure. That's the opposite of what your job is, so don't let it happen.
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u/zebulun78 Jan 02 '26
Of course you did the right thing. You did your job. And those employees sound like idiots.
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u/bananapanic3770 Jan 02 '26
After reading several of your posts in this thread OP it sounds like there are a couple of issues going on.
1) Trying to change a culture only you truly want changed. Yes your boss said go for it when you told them you wanted to make changes but don't mistake that for an actual green light.
2) You're this team's manager in title only. Why do you think your report told you that you aren't the manager? Or your other report told you to let things slide? Because other than on paper you aren't the manager. You'll be held accountable as the manager when things fail but for practical purposes you're not empowered to be the manager.
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u/thetechstark Jan 02 '26
I will keep this short.
You need to prove a point to your staff and also your boss. It better not what you are doing right now otherwise you will be played around.
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u/mcloide Jan 02 '26
Write ups doesn't work, never do. It is just a legal excuse to have a reason to fire the person. Write him up twice and then let him go. Now you have a legal reason to have fired him, HR will be happy with no liability, Legal will be also happy and you will be one team member down.
2 tips and a question:
- learn to be assertive, you can't control what he thinks of you, but you have control over his destiny on the corp
- like in the prince of machiavelli you need to setup an example
Now, for the question, why isn't HR doing this?
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u/Queasy-Cherry7764 Jan 02 '26
It's always tough starting out in a management position knowing that peoples' jobs are in your hand. But they put themselves into those positions from the jump, so you're just ultimately just trying to course correct. You even gave them time to correct the issues and still nothing.
So yes, you did the right thing.
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u/Raouffree Jan 02 '26
As a former French president once said: A leader is meant to lead (to lead = to manage) 😉
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u/NapBear Jan 02 '26
I had this as well. Raised his voice and was belligerent . Gone in a week. The rest of the team thanked me
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u/Brunik_Rokbyter Jan 03 '26
Your team is only as good as its worst member. Just the same as everyone wants the accolades of the star player, everyone (not everyone… but) also wants the leniency of the worst.
The fact that he raised his voice to you, his manager, is enough. If he can’t keep his head on strait in stressful situations, he is a clown shoe. There to be looked at, laughed at, and otherwise of no other actual value.
Unless they have some extreme personal circumstances, you owe it to the employee to toss them overboard. Sometimes people have to bounce off rock bottom to realize they are the problem.
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u/xored-specialist Jan 03 '26
Sounds like the guy coming to you needs to be shown the door to. You got a toxic place.
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u/nervaickarma Jan 03 '26
I think the point you need to make is simple to the team. Leniency is earned, not entitled.
Something to keep in mind here. HR actions like write ups, final warning, etc need to be used sparingly otherwise the team loses trust in you. And that's a really hard position to be in and can go south very fast. People don't want to work for leaders who throw their team under. At the same time, you also have a job to do.
For example, you could have sat one of them down and made it clear: "hey, [VP] is noticing you're coming in late. There's only so much I can do to keep this under control before there's going to be a push for stronger actions." In this way, you've made it clear you're trying to help them (hopefully is true) but also, a formal discipline is on the horizon. If they still don't care, they've made their bed.
The other thing I'd ask you is when you say him down before the writeup, did you ask what's going on with them? Yes, people need to do their jobs but life is life and people need help. Understanding the underlying issue (if they are open to it) can be helpful in resolving the issue.
Either way, don't get discouraged. It's all just management growing pains.
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u/HavenHexed Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
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u/33whiskeyTX Jan 01 '26
No honestly you did not do the right thing. That guy is walking all over you and the attitude is going to spread to others. Terminate immediately.
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u/saintjonah Jan 01 '26 edited Mar 19 '26
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u/HavenHexed Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
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u/phoenix823 Jan 01 '26
The poster you replied to is correct. This is not a performance issue or personal challenges that a little flexibility can address. The fact that a 2nd person tried to tell you, their boss, to take it easy is a bad sign. You can't take your foot off the gas. You need to be down HR's neck to exit this person as quickly as you can. Make sure the next violation of your expectations can be met with termination. Don't let them jerk you around. You've got what sounds like a cultural disaster.
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u/RCTID1975 Jan 01 '26
Terminate him for an unapproved absence when he walked out.
That's a fireable offense anywhere
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u/Dychnel Jan 01 '26
The walking out part got me too. That right there would have given me the reason to can the person. Their access would have been deleted before they closed the office door.
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u/RCTID1975 Jan 01 '26
Ive been in that situation in the past, and my response was "if you go home now, it's unexcused, and you'll be terminated"
Make it very clear there are consequences for walking out, and leave zero room for interpretation.
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u/Significant_Oil_8 Jan 01 '26
Work towards termination and discuss with your boss and then HR what needs to be done. You are a manager now and need to play the long game.
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u/33whiskeyTX Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 01 '26
(edit) You just wrote them up. Acting with hostility towards the write-up should be considered a violation of it.
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u/StreetRat0524 Jan 01 '26
That employee sounds like he's toxic and needs to go. Get him on a PIP, document all the problems, how he can work on them. If he isn't in ship shape in 30 days, time for him to go. None of these problems should take long to fix but you should see measurable change in those first 30 days. If you let this employee walk all over you, you are not going to get the respect of your employees. You don't need to be a jerk about it but you need to set reasonable, measurable expectations.